Does WP guest for Qantas F lounge need to be on same flight?

[opusman]

It's just that members have misinterpreted the rules as 'QF status' trumps 'OW status' which is not true. A QF WP is both WP and OWE. If you wish to bring in a guest flying on an alternative OW carrier when you are flying QF then you are doing that under the OW entitlement, not the QF entitlement.

No, this is incorrect.

QF members are not OW members when they're travelling QF. They're QF members.

OW is an alliance of airlines; other airlines will recognise your status but since you got that status from QF in the first place OW is irrelevant. When travelling QF as a QF status member, the only rules that apply are the QF ones.

 

[durbrain]

No, this is incorrect.

QF members are not OW members when they're travelling QF. They're QF members.

OW is an alliance of airlines; other airlines will recognise your status but since you got that status from QF in the first place OW is irrelevant. When travelling QF as a QF status member, the only rules that apply are the QF ones.

This is not what was stated by the FF team. And there is no mention of this on either the Qantas or Oneworld websites.

https://www.oneworld.com/ffp/lounge-access - clearly states that as a OWE travelling on ANY OW airline, allows you access to ANY OW lounge (with the exceptions listed on that site). 'ANY' to my mind includes the HOME airline. There is no mention that home airlines can apply their own rules to their own members that supersede the OW rules.

https://www.qantas.com/fflyer/dyn/flying/tier-benefits - there is no mention on the Qantas site either that "When travelling QF as a QF status member, only rules that apply are QF". That is an assumption ppl have made that appears unfounded. A QF member is a OW member when travelling on ANY OW airline (including QF!).

 

[mannej]

I am not defending, but why contradictory? Post #26 refers to 2 distinct rules: 1) OW, which is applicable to OW status holders on OW tickets on OW carriers, and 2) non OW, on a QF flight number, which is applicable if one is flying QF's non-OW carriers (on Jetstar or EK metals, for example).

There was also clarification that US-based OW carriers have a special clause in OW rules, basically exempting them providing lounge access to their elite members in domestic routes in the US.

I am not saying the above is or is not correct, but I do not see any contradictory information provided.

It is contradictory to the information that the OP was provided. If OW rules trump QF rules in the case the OP is suggesting, all of the rules cannot be right. OWE guesting = 1 guest on OW flight, QF guesting = 1 guest on same flight so how can all of the rules be correct?

 

[ermen]

It is contradictory to the information that the OP was provided. If OW rules trump QF rules in the case the OP is suggesting, all of the rules cannot be right. OWE guesting = 1 guest on OW flight, QF guesting = 1 guest on same flight so how can all of the rules be correct?

OP did clarify quite clearly (assuming that is how to interpret it).
A WP is automatically a OWE, and in that case, the more lenient OWE rules apply.
In other cases, where OWE cannot apply, then fall back to WP rules.

Now... as a QF WP flying domestic, I can guest 2 guests.. but a OWE only 1... so how?

 

[juddles]

I understand (I think?) both camps here - those that see the OWE provision overriding the QF provision, and those that see that QF may make special (even restrictive) exceptions to their own members as AA does in the USA.

The fact that the "FF team" provided a certain interpretation on a given day does not settle the issue - unless that decision would be mirrored every single time in the future - which I doubt

These days there are endless combinations of ticket types, status levels, codeshares, etc and I do not think it surprising that each QF staff member does not know (or even understand) the specific rules for each special case in every single lounge. And writing the rules to be clear is not easy either. But what they do need is at least one person in their structure who does know, or who can make a call where there is doubt. Someone everyone within QF can refer to.

 

[opusman]

https://www.qantas.com/fflyer/dyn/flying/tier-benefits - there is no mention on the Qantas site either that "When travelling QF as a QF status member, only rules that apply are QF". That is an assumption ppl have made that appears unfounded. A QF member is a OW member when travelling on ANY OW airline (including QF!).

No, but QF's rules are clearly stated and you are wilfully overlooking this. Your QF status gives you OW status when travelling on another OW airline. Not when travelling QF.

 

[durbrain]

It is contradictory to the information that the OP was provided. If OW rules trump QF rules in the case the OP is suggesting, all of the rules cannot be right. OWE guesting = 1 guest on OW flight, QF guesting = 1 guest on same flight so how can all of the rules be correct?

I am not saying 'OW trumps QF'!

I have said this many times already. There are 4 categories of eligibility! You can enter on any of the four!

QF status does not 'trump' travel class. Travel class does not 'trump' OW status. And OW status does not 'trump' QF status! You do not need all four rules to be satisfied! You need ONE rule to be satisfied.

In the same manner that a QF WP member can enter the F lounge even when travelling Y (even though the QF status rule is 'contradictory' to the travel class rule according to your logic), one can exercise their OWE entitlements to enter the F lounge with a guest from another OW flight.

 

[durbrain]

No, but QF's rules are clearly stated and you are wilfully overlooking this. Your QF status gives you OW status when travelling on another OW airline. Not when travelling QF.

I am not overlooking QF rules. QF rules apply when utilising QF status. If you choose to utilise OW status, then those rules apply. 4 categories of eligibility/entitlement. You can enter on ANY of the 4. There is no hierarchy to the rules.

Anyways, you guys can believe what you want. I asked QF FF what the go was, and that was the answer I was given. It makes perfect sense. If ppl wish to assume that Qantas treats their own members worse than members of their competitor programs, then that's their right.

 

[durbrain]

I understand (I think?) both camps here - those that see the OWE provision overriding the QF provision, and those that see that QF may make special (even restrictive) exceptions to their own members as AA does in the USA.

The 2nd camp is wrong. AA does not make its own exceptions outside of the OWE rules. The AA exception is PART of the OWE rules (https://www.oneworld.com/ffp/lounge-access). When AA members are flying domestic, they are excluded from lounge access on the basis of both their AA and OW membership. The others on the forum here are suggesting that QF is ruling OW status inapplicable when flying QF (even though that is OW flying OW!) and instigating a more restrictive rule that is in breach of OW terms.

 

[medhead]

It does make sense and there is no contradiction.

There are 4 categories of eligibility/entitlement. 1. Qantas/Emirates travel class. 2. Qantas FF status. 3. Emirates FF status. 4. OW status.

Your eligibility/entitlements can be determined by ANY of these 4 criteria. hossein_au has already explained it.
A QF WP member flying on QF metal can enter as a OWE and bring a guest travelling on another OW flight under group 4. That they can't do that under Group 2 entitlements is irrelevant.
It's the same as entering as a QF WP flying QF metal Y. You meet Group 2 criteria but not Group 1 but obviously still have eligibility!

I spoke to the FF team initially and they said they weren't sure. Two weeks later someone rang back clarifying the situation as above, so obviously they had put some thought into it.

If you are travelling as QF status on QF flight, oneworld rules do not apply. Qantas recognises your QF platinum, not OW emerald. Oneworld Emerald is only relevant when travelling on any other oneworld airline. There is no implied option to select your eligibility pathway to enter the lounge.

As for the FF service team, they're not the ones who will be sitting on the door of the lounge deciding if you can get in or not.

The 2nd camp is wrong. AA does not make its own exceptions outside of the OWE rules. The AA exception is PART of the OWE rules (https://www.oneworld.com/ffp/lounge-access). When AA members are flying domestic, they are excluded from lounge access on the basis of both their AA and OW membership. The others on the forum here are suggesting that QF is ruling OW status inapplicable when flying QF (even though that is OW flying OW!) and instigating a more restrictive rule that is in breach of OW terms.

You seem to be getting confused between home airline and oneworld. Oneworld is about giving rights when travelling outside your home airline. You travel on your home airline as per your status with the home airline. You're not needing to be recognised as a OW member, as qantas already recognise you as a QF member. AA can do exactly the same without needing to add a clarification to OW rules.

I am not defending, but why contradictory? Post #26 refers to 2 distinct rules: 1) OW, which is applicable to OW status holders on OW tickets on OW carriers, and 2) non OW, on a QF flight number, which is applicable if one is flying QF's non-OW carriers (on Jetstar or EK metals, for example).

There was also clarification that US-based OW carriers have a special clause in OW rules, basically exempting them providing lounge access to their elite members in domestic routes in the US.

I am not saying the above is or is not correct, but I do not see any contradictory information provided.

There is a whole thread here about a contradiction in the rules for Qantas status members travelling on Qantas. Therefore, all rules cannot be correct.

The non-OW thing is just irrelevant distraction.

OP did clarify quite clearly (assuming that is how to interpret it).
A WP is automatically a OWE, and in that case, the more lenient OWE rules apply.
In other cases, where OWE cannot apply, then fall back to WP rules.

Now... as a QF WP flying domestic, I can guest 2 guests.. but a OWE only 1... so how?

How so? Could it be because Qantas recognise the pax as per their QF status. I wonder?

This example clearly shows that Oneworld rules do not trump Qantas status rules when travelling on Qantas.

Anyway, lets wait for the lounges dragons to decide.

 

[durbrain]

If you are travelling as QF status on QF flight, oneworld rules do not apply. Qantas recognises your QF platinum, not OW emerald. Oneworld Emerald is only relevant when travelling on any other oneworld airline. There is no implied option to select your eligibility pathway to enter the lounge.

As for the FF service team, they're not the ones who will be sitting on the door of the lounge deciding if you can get in or not.

Ppl keep saying this. Can you please link to a rule in either the QF FF or OW program that explicitly states this? All I can see is the OW page where 'ANY' OW member flying on 'ANY' OW airline can access lounges according to OW rules. Maybe your English is better than mine but 'ANY' to me does not mean 'all OW airlines unless you are travelling on a OW airline with that airline's own FF membership'.

When I fly QF on QF my boarding pass says FF PLATINUM EMERALD. Funny that - The boarding pass recognises my OW status.

 

[durbrain]

You seem to be getting confused between home airline and oneworld. Oneworld is about giving rights when travelling outside your home airline. You travel on your home airline as per your status with the home airline. You're not needing to be recognised as a OW member, as qantas already recognise you as a QF member. AA can do exactly the same without needing to add a clarification to OW rules.

I am not confused. You are making an assumption that is false. OW is about travelling on ANY OW airline.

So why are the AA exceptions listed on the OW website then? Why are the Qatar exceptions on the website? Why is it that every exception pertaining to OW is LISTED as part of the OW rules explicitly, EXCEPT for the supposed QF exception??

There is a whole thread here about a contradiction in the rules for Qantas status members travelling on Qantas. Therefore, all rules cannot be correct.

The non-OW thing is just irrelevant distraction.

Does anyone actually read my posts? There is no contradiction and there is no hierarchy to the rules! You do not need ALL RULES to be correct!! You need ONE rule satisfied to enter.

This is as stupid as saying, "You cannot enter as QF WP because you are flying Y as your QF status is in contradiction to your travel class" or "You cannot enter as an F passenger because your QF NB status".

How so? Could it be because Qantas recognise the pax as per their QF status. I wonder?

This example clearly shows that Oneworld rules do not trump Qantas status rules when travelling on Qantas.

Anyway, lets wait for the lounges dragons to decide.

No, a QF WP member can bring in 2 guests to a domestic business lounge because of QF entitlements! It is not a case of QF 'trumping' OW! Why can nobody understand that the rules are not mutually exclusive?? Your entitlements are based on "EITHER travel class OR QF status OR Emirates status OR OW status".

 

[opusman]

OW is about travelling on ANY OW airline.

Wishful thinking can get you a long way, but when it actually gets you into the F lounge with a guest who's not travelling with you, come back and let us know.

 

[defurax]

This is hilarious. You haven't even tried to bring the guest in the F lounge and you tell everyone here that they are wrong because someone on the phone told you that you would be able to bring your guest in. Here is a real life example: I was flying QF HKG-SYD and a colleague was flying BA HKG-LHR, my guest was refused entry to the QF F lounge (when QF still had a F lounge), but we were welcomed in the CX F lounge.

 

[durbrain]

I started this thread inquiring about a question, which were not clarified by the answers. Some suggested I get an answer from QF directly, which I did. I have passed on that message so that others can utilise the benefit that they may not have thought they were entitled to.

So to clarify:
1. There are 4 categories of eligibility/entitlements for lounge access. 1. Travel class. 2. QF status. 3. Emirates status. 4. OW status
2. There is no hierarchy to these categories. No category 'trumps' any other.
3. Your eligibility/entitlements can be satisfied by ANY of these categories.
4. A QF WP member is a OWE member when travelling on any OW airline and thus can enter on either QF status or OW status if on a QF flight. If they wish to bring in a guest from another OW airline, they can do this utilising their OW entitlement (it is not a case of 'trumping').
5. If a QF WP member is travelling on a non-OW QF codeshare, then they are only entitled to utilise their QF status entitlements.

That was what was clarified to me by the FF team.

Those who are stubborn enough to think that the above scenario is less logical than one in which QF treats their own passengers worse than alliance members, feel free to self-restrict yourself to QF rules. For others who wish to utilise the OW benefits, you are entitled to do so.

I am not sure I can make this any clearer.

 

[durbrain]

This is hilarious. You haven't even tried to bring the guest in the F lounge and you tell everyone here that they are wrong because someone on the phone told you that you would be able to bring your guest in. Here is a real life example: I was flying QF HKG-SYD and a colleague was flying BA HKG-LHR, my guest was refused entry to the QF F lounge (when QF still had a F lounge), but we were welcomed in the CX F lounge.

Feel free to call Alan Joyce directly then. Not sure what you expect me to do?

 

[defurax]

Feel free to call Alan Joyce directly then. Not sure what you expect me to do?

I don't want you to do anything. Just make sure you have Mr Joyce's phone number at hand when your guest is refused entry to the F lounge.

 

[medhead]

I am not confused. You are making an assumption that is false. OW is about travelling on ANY OW airline.

Oneworld is about "introducing" you to oneworld airlines other than your home airline. The home airline does not need oneworld status, they have you home airline status.

Does anyone actually read my posts? There is no contradiction and there is no hierarchy to the rules! You do not need ALL RULES to be correct!! You need ONE rule satisfied to enter.

So you started a whole thread about a contradiction that doesn't exist?

This is as stupid as saying, "You cannot enter as QF WP because you are flying Y as your QF status is in contradiction to your travel class" or "You cannot enter as an F passenger because your QF NB status".

When you start to call people stupid you undermine your whole position. In both of those examples the Qantas rules override other Qantas rules. They are status based exceptions within the same rules. (which probably explains why no one has said such things)
That is not the same as deciding between two different sets of rules.

No, a QF WP member can bring in 2 guests to a domestic business lounge because of QF entitlements! It is not a case of QF 'trumping' OW! Why can nobody understand that the rules are not mutually exclusive?? Your entitlements are based on "EITHER travel class OR QF status OR Emirates status OR OW status".

You're forgetting two important points: 1) the applicable rules are determined by your relationship with Qantas, and 2) Qantas are the ones who determine which rules apply, not you. It should be very simple to understand that home airline status takes primacy in determining your relationship with the home airline. You're not travelling as a oneworld emerald with your home airline.

 

[medhead]

This is hilarious. You haven't even tried to bring the guest in the F lounge and you tell everyone here that they are wrong because someone on the phone told you that you would be able to bring your guest in. Here is a real life example: I was flying QF HKG-SYD and a colleague was flying BA HKG-LHR, my guest was refused entry to the QF F lounge (when QF still had a F lounge), but we were welcomed in the CX F lounge.

So QF (home airline) recognised your Qantas status and applied the rules accordingly. CX (another oneworld airline) recognised your Oneworld status and applied the rules accordingly. :?:
Who would've thought...

 

[durbrain]

Wishful thinking can get you a long way, but when it actually gets you into the F lounge with a guest who's not travelling with you, come back and let us know.

In the past 2 years, I have brought a Y passenger into the LAX Oneworld business and the HK QF International lounge who was travelling on a different QF flight (SYD instead of BNE). At that time, I didn't realise it would potentially be an issue, but both were allowed access without question. Technically that 'breaks' the QF rules.

Unfortunately the opportunity to bring a non-QF OW passenger in didn't work out. And probably won't happen again for ages. So you're never gonna get an answer from me.