Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

[Pushka]

Yes correct, and you were going to Australia, therefore Border Force needs an APP check to be completed via the Airline.

Isn’t that what you do on the outgoing flight? Passport etc? And which then sticks for return? Maybe not. I don’t remember.

 

[Ambo]

This morning @6.40 am on 3AW pax was interviewed.
Was flying J MEL-ADL ( home from CHC) with his wife last week.
Paged in Lounge before boarding to be advised he was bumped for "Tech crew" . Wife sat next to uniformed pilot for the flight.
Pax wrote complaint to Customer Care, offered 5000 points as "goodwill" gesture.
After it went to air yesterday, pax received call from Customer Care and offered a 50% partial refund.
Has been lead story on the radio news on AW.
@Pushka , you are not alone but agree your situation was very poorly handled.

Breaking News : now has just been announced AJ is leaving 2 months early!

Just noticed all other AFF's heard it too!

News.com.au also has published it.

 

[TheInsider]

Isn’t that what you do on the outgoing flight? Passport etc? And which then sticks for return? Maybe not. I don’t remember.

It's the actual checks done by Border Force to allow you to travel into/out of the country or not. So yes, the passport info may have been in the booking, but for Border Force to allow you to re-enter the country you need to be checked-in as this gets approved or denied.
During an outage nothing gets transmitted and then a manual procedure will need to be done, which includes multiple phone calls.
This is the same for any arrival or departure into Australia, NZ and a few other countries now.

 

[Vic]

That assumption has been well and truly clarified. They were pilots on duty travel. Also clarified by Qantas in an email to @Pushka. Their appearance and conversation, and the use of specific terms describing them by airport staff may have lead to alternate considerations at the time, but this point is no longer in dispute.

That being the case, there is a massive issue with their behaviour in the lounge. Are staff on duty travel even supposed to be in the lounge? I'm also confused because my impression from the reading the first 20 to 25 posts is they were not in uniform. I thought that was a requirement of staff on duty travel.

I'm sure these issues must have been addressed already. If so, please ignore my post.

 

[RooFlyer]

I'm sure these issues must have been addressed already. If so, please ignore my post.

Their behaviour in the lounge has been covered, but has been largely ignored by those wishing to claim the two as Qantas pilots

 

[SOPOOR]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/qantas-boots-vietnam-vet-from-business-class-on-melbourne-to-adelaide-flight/news-story/7e8764c43431a799c74dc20232ae63d4

An elderly Vietnam veteran from Adelaide was downgraded from his paid Qantas business class seat on Sunday so a young pilot could travel in luxury to the South Australian capital.
Stephen Jones, 78, and his wife were in the Qantas lounge enjoying a coffee on their way home from a holiday in Christchurch on Sunday when they got the news – just 30 minutes before the final Melbourne to Adelaide leg took off.

The reason was that a pilot needed to get to Adelaide for a flight and could only do business class as per an enterprise agreement.

Speaking to Melbourne’s 3AW, Mr Jones said he was offered 5000 Frequent Flyer points and an apology after a letter of complaint.

...

Mr Jones said he understood that pilots were entitled to rest comfortably on their way to another flight, but the ordeal was “unsettling and made me a little irritable”
-----------------------------------------------------------

as the 78 year old guy says and I totally agree withhim 1000% and ive been saying this since for years

if qantas were forced to pay back 100% of hte flight cost , or if a credit card charge back was done, they wouldnt give such coughty compensation or take 12 weeks for a refund. things will never change until this changes

Imagine if you did a chargeback and qantas had to rectify it within 2 weeks, or their claim would be invalid

hypothetically, Qantas could put everyone in First/Business on redemption miles in economy and resell the tickets for cash and offer 5000 QFF points

disgusting

 

[Pushka]

That being the case, there is a massive issue with their behaviour in the lounge. Are staff on duty travel even supposed to be in the lounge? I'm also confused because my impression from the reading the first 20 to 25 posts is they were not in uniform. I thought that was a requirement of staff on duty travel.

I'm sure these issues must have been addressed already. If so, please ignore my post.

This is exactly the situation. I expect that the logic was that they were being transported to their place of work rather than being at work if that makes sense. That's the only explanation if we agree they were pilots. I expect they were. Their manner in the lounge and lack of uniform indicates they weren't on duty.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

For all those people who suggested that Pushka was making things up when she documented her downgrade experience at Adelaide, this story confirms that this is exactly standard operating procedure at Qantas and is not merely an isolated incident. Heck, the downgrade compensation offer was identical (5000 points). This story highlights the need for there to be consumer protection when it comes to downgrades. Simply providing a refund on a fare differential of $3 compared to a full fare economy ticket isn't gonna cut it.

What is interesting about the story was the passenger was travelling on a paid business class ticket whereas Pushka used points to upgrade. Irrespective of the circumstances, it seems like Qantas uses the same playbook to inconvenience customers here. Let us hope the new CEO looks into this process (along with the other failings at Qantas and boy are there a few) to actually create positive customer experiences rather than newsworthy accounts of yet another Qantas failing. The era of Qantas being dragged through the mud needs to end and it needs to end now by being the airline they deserve to be.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Pushka]

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/qantas-boots-vietnam-vet-from-business-class-on-melbourne-to-adelaide-flight/news-story/7e8764c43431a799c74dc20232ae63d4

An elderly Vietnam veteran from Adelaide was downgraded from his paid Qantas business class seat on Sunday so a young pilot could travel in luxury to the South Australian capital.
Stephen Jones, 78, and his wife were in the Qantas lounge enjoying a coffee on their way home from a holiday in Christchurch on Sunday when they got the news – just 30 minutes before the final Melbourne to Adelaide leg took off.

The reason was that a pilot needed to get to Adelaide for a flight and could only do business class as per an enterprise agreement.

Speaking to Melbourne’s 3AW, Mr Jones said he was offered 5000 Frequent Flyer points and an apology after a letter of complaint.

A 78-year-old Vietnam vet was involuntarily downgraded from his business flight seat so a Qantas pilot could get to Adelaide.
He claimed that the pilot who took his seat next to his wife “wouldn’t look at her.”

Mr Jones, who served in Vietnam in a combat unit in the 1960s, claimed he turned down the offer of 5000 points because “I don’t think anything is going to change until there’s ramifications for Qantas, or costs for Qantas when they upset their customers”.

According to Qantas, the pilot was under an enterprise agreement stipulating they must fly business class.

It’s understood the pilot’s inability to get to Adelaide could have impacted other flights. Picture: NCA Newswire / Gaye Gerard
News.com.au understands a flight from Adelaide may have been cancelled if they could not make it there.

Qantas confirmed it has apologised to Mr Jones, and offers, including a partial refund, were made available.

Justin Lawrence, a partner at Henderson Ball lawyers, later told 3AW there was little customers can do about such a move by the airline and said it “standard operating procedure”.

Business class in a Qantas A330 aircraft. Picture: Qantas.
“Unfortunately, their terms of carriage allow them to do this sort of thing – this happens so often they’ve actually got a term for it, buckle up, they call this ‘involuntary downgrading,’” he said.

“They’ll overprescribe business class or first class, they will need to bump someone out, and they’ll do it almost immediately prior to the flight – not just Qantas, they all do it.

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“Any time you go to a travel agent or online to Qantas to buy a seat, and we think we’re buying a seat in a particular class, there are no guarantees that when that plane takes off, you’ll be sitting in that class.”

Mr Lawrence said in Europe, there is mandated compensation for such a downgrade, but that is not the case in Australia.

Mr Jones said he understood that pilots were entitled to rest comfortably on their way to another flight, but the ordeal was “unsettling and made me a little irritable”
-----------------------------------------------------------

as the 78 year old guy says and I totally agree withhim 1000% and ive been saying this since for years

if qantas were forced to pay back 100% of hte flight cost , or if a credit card charge back was done, things will never change

hypothetically, Qantas could put everyone in First/Business on redemption miles in economy and resell the tickets for cash and offer 5000 QFF points

disgusting

Yep. Happened to me Friday a week ago and there's already a thread. My upgrade was points from a paid economy fare. Adelaide to Melbourne. We only were told after we'd sat in our J seats for around 20 minutes. They told us to get off the plane then handed us our downgrade pass.

Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

Original Title: Anyone care to guess why this happened today? A new way forward - err backwards for Qantas?Waiting on plane now 20 minutes late for 2 pilots (passengers) who may or may not be planning to board. Sigh.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Post automatically merged: Sep 5, 2023

For all those people who suggested that Pushka was making things up when she documented her downgrade experience at Adelaide, this story confirms that this is exactly standard operating procedure at Qantas and is not merely an isolated incident. Heck, the downgrade compensation offer was identical (5000 points). This story highlights the need for there to be consumer protection when it comes to downgrades. Simply providing a refund on a fare differential of $3 compared to a full fare economy ticket isn't gonna cut it.

What is interesting about the story was the passenger was travelling on a paid business class ticket whereas Pushka used points to upgrade. Irrespective of the circumstances, it seems like Qantas uses the same playbook to inconvenience customers here. Let us hope the new CEO looks into this process (along with the other failings at Qantas and boy are there a few) to actually create positive customer experiences rather than newsworthy accounts of yet another Qantas failing. The era of Qantas being dragged through the mud needs to end and it needs to end now by being the airline they deserve to be.

-RooFlyer88

Yes, and as per the heading, this is new future. No seat and no upgrade is guaranteed anymore. One can only hope pilots don't have to fly much while not flying.

Another nail for Qantas as I'm betting most other airlines don't have such EBA in place.

 

[Princess Fiona]

That being the case, there is a massive issue with their behaviour in the lounge. Are staff on duty travel even supposed to be in the lounge? I'm also confused because my impression from the reading the first 20 to 25 posts is they were not in uniform. I thought that was a requirement of staff on duty travel.

I'm sure these issues must have been addressed already. If so, please ignore my post.

Yes they have been addressed. Please read all the posts on this thread.
TL;DR no they do not have to be in uniform
Yes they are allowed in the lounge.

 

[SOPOOR]

Yep. Happened to me Friday a week ago and there's already a thread. My upgrade was points from a paid economy fare. Adelaide to Melbourne. We only were told after we'd sat in our J seats for around 20 minutes. They told us to get off the plane then handed us our downgrade pass.

Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

Original Title: Anyone care to guess why this happened today? A new way forward - err backwards for Qantas?Waiting on plane now 20 minutes late for 2 pilots (passengers) who may or may not be planning to board. Sigh.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Post automatically merged: Sep 5, 2023

Yes, and as per the heading, this is new future. No seat and no upgrade is guaranteed anymore. One can only hope pilots don't have to fly much while not flying.

Another nail for Qantas as I'm betting most other airlines don't have such EBA in place.

I have only flown premium class 3 times in 4 years, and regardless of point vs cash, if I got downgraded, i at a MINIMUM would except the different in fare costs back
and if I got a premium seat thats seat was broken, or entertainemtn not working, i would expect at a minimum 50% refund

I still cannot believe that this sort of behaviour is remotely acceptable.

my parents years ago, when they got to the airport, their flight was cancelled, and due to technical difficulties, the only flight available was from a 1 hour by plane away airport, airline paid for hotels, meals, transport and everything, exceptional service

guess the airline? no it wasnt Singapore, it was JETSTAR

ive flown jetstar maybe twice to 3 times a year and the service has been exceptional

 

[Pushka]

I have only flown premium class 3 times in 4 years, and regardless of point vs cash, if I got downgraded, i at a MINIMUM would except the different in fare costs back
and if I got a premium seat thats seat was broken, or entertainemtn not working, i would expect at a minimum 50% refund

I still cannot believe that this sort of behaviour is remotely acceptable.

my parents years ago, when they got to the airport, their flight was cancelled, and due to technical difficulties, the only flight available was from a 1 hour by plane away airport, airline paid for hotels, meals, transport and everything, exceptional service

guess the airline? no it wasnt Singapore, it was JETSTAR

ive flown jetstar maybe twice to 3 times a year and the service has been exceptional

Well, I wonder what else will be unearthed in the EBA agreements that are seemingly being flushed out now.

 

[Vic]

This is exactly the situation. I expect that the logic was that they were being transported to their place of work rather than being at work if that makes sense. That's the only explanation if we agree they were pilots. I expect they were. Their manner in the lounge and lack of uniform indicates they weren't on duty.

In which case EBA is irrelevant.

No but I'm grateful they do go through years of training, constant examination and days/nights away from home to get the rest of us where we need to be.

Do they do 3/4 year bachelor/Honours degree, Masters/PhD and then 3 year certification program? In my industry this gets someone about $100k at completion. Pay starts at about $65k while they're doing the certification after 6 or 7 years of study.
If pilots are doing less than that, then the pay is about right.

For Vic, yes, ADL QF has a CL.
But probably, non op pilots or even op pilots would not have access to the CL.

Ahhh. Yes I know Adelaide has a chairman's lounge. That's why I said Adelaide has a chairman's lounge.
The early speculation was VERY IMPORTANT CUSTOMER. What I'm saying is it would be weird for a very important customer without chairman's lounge to be able to kick another pax out of business.

And pilots are the only reason customers can pay to fly.

That's not exactly correct. You need many things to be able to run an airline.
If I get a pilot and I don't have a plane, customers cannot pay me to fly...

 

[Pushka]

In which case EBA is irrelevant.

That's what we were told during the kerfuffle.

 

[justinbrett]

If a cabin is oversold, why doesn't QF auction compensation like the US carriers do? That would be the fairest way to deal with it. Eventually someone will take it.

 

[Vic]

Yes they have been addressed. Please read all the posts on this thread.
TL;DR no they do not have to be in uniform
Yes they are allowed in the lounge.

Thanks...

That being the case, there is a massive issue with their behaviour in the lounge. Are staff on duty travel even supposed to be in the lounge? I'm also confused because my impression from the reading the first 20 to 25 posts is they were not in uniform. I thought that was a requirement of staff on duty travel.

I'm sure these issues must have been addressed already. If so, please ignore my post.

 

[Pushka]

Are there published guidelines about the ins and outs of crew/tech/pilots dress etc when not on active duty. Normally this is none of our business but Qantas has made it our business because we as customers are being impacted by their agreements which until now have not been obvious. I'd like to know how people 'know' that techs can be in lounges and not in uniforms so that info must be somewhere. And what other nasty surprises can we expect.

 

[RooFlyer]

Yes they have been addressed. Please read all the posts on this thread.
TL;DR no they do not have to be in uniform
Yes they are allowed in the lounge.

In which case the Qantas pilots’ behaviour in the lounge might also be mentioned again. After all, that was the thing which started this whole thread!!

 

[Ktan89]

I saw that article on news.com.au this morning and straight away I thought of this thread.
Is it just me or anyone else wondering if a reporter saw this thread, decide to post it and thought hey why not chuck in there that it happened to a war vet too.
haha you know.. the news being the news..

 

[Ambo]

I saw that article on news.com.au this morning and straight away I thought of this thread.
Is it just me or anyone else wondering if a reporter saw this thread, decide to post it and thought hey why not chuck in there that it happened to a war vet too.
haha you know.. the news being the news..

Probably not, someone called up a radio station this morning (I think 3AW Rumour File) to share their experiance and it just took off from there so just coincidence that this thread was around.

Yes the Pun was intended.
No I will not apologise for it.