Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

[AustraliaPoochie]

More like, "told".
As the QF airport manager already had the BP in their hand, for Pushka and hubby to be moved to Y, means, somewhere, somehow, someone had already made the decision to move them, maybe when they were in the lounge, already at that point in time.
But ultimately, we don't know when and who made the decision to do the moving, ie, started the process of computer entry to move them out from J..

 

[Pushka]

It’s ‘where possible’.

The latest story got 75% refund, $100 voucher, and a spare seat beside them.

Well, if you think that this is all ok then good luck to you.

 

[RichardMEL]

Why should a higher status solo traveller be downgraded before one of a lower status couple? Age shouldn't trump status. Being a couple doesn't make you more deserving.

I just want to clarify my meaning here. No, I'm not saying I think a higher status solo traveller should be downgraded over a lower status one. That also would not be fair.

I suppose what I'm really puzzled about is that the couple were flying together (in this case and the case of the Vietnam vet) but QF wanted one seat. OK, let's assume in both instances there were no solos of equal or lower status(or fare class or whatever) to upset (and I actually find this a bit hard to believe in say a 30 seat J cabin) then why split the couple? Perhaps my question really is - what would be worse? Both pax downgraded (but seated together hopefully) or one left in J? Both are far from ideal of course but I'm not sure. I also suspect that different couples (or travel companions to broaden the definition) would probably have different views on this (insert age old joke about one partner being happy to be separated from the other for hours....)

Also, what if the pair flying were a mother and teenage daughter? That would be even more of a disaster I think.

There are never good answers to these kinds of situations I know, and each one is slightly different.

I also agree that QF should have done a US style ask for volunteers with incentives and they probably would have gotten someone rather than just downgrade one half of a party of 2. I do realise that QF doesn't operate in this way, but it is one of the few ways US airlines handle too many pax for avail seats (for whatever reasons) that usually gets results without upsetting too many people.

Anyway I really just wanted to clarify I don't think a higher status solo pax should be downgaded ahead of lower status folks (we don't know if they had any status - but fair to assume probably lower or none).

 

[Must...Fly!]

Also, what if the pair flying were a mother and teenage daughter? That would be even more of a disaster I think.

I've had to deal with this but in the VA context. Mother and daughter presented to check in, on separate PNRs. Daughter got bumped due to a downgauge in the old VA A330 days. Mother livid, taking it out on us etc. Totally unfair. I mean, as if we'd have forced her teenage daughter to stay behind for 3 hours while Mum flew. Did she think we were Qantas? Took some work but we got them both on. A few seats were often saved at airport level for such scenarios back then.

I do wonder how much of these stories is a result of the disempowerment of agents at the airport for Qantas and closure of ticketing desks etc.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

It’s ‘where possible’.

The latest story got 75% refund, $100 voucher, and a spare seat beside them.

The may or may not be an acceptable remedy. If you are flying Sydney to LA in J and get downgraded to Y a 75% discount won't cut it as I'm seeing $16K for J return versus $2.7K for Y return for travel dates in October. If you want to talk about being made whole it really should be at a minimum the fare difference at the time of booking between the J fare and the Y sale fare since but for you having a J seat there would be no reason to buy any more expensive Y ticket (after all upgrades are pointless if you could never get one). A spare seat isn't saying much in the sense that if you fly enough you'll have spare seats (heck today's flight up to DRW I had a spare seat beside me). I would think that a seat with ample legroom in Y would be ideal and depending on health concerns close to the lavatory may be helpful too but it does not seem like either were provided. It is unclear what the $100 voucher was. Was it cash they could spend on items to make the trip a little less painful or was it funny money for use on Qantas?

And it’s also about the process

Bingo! No one is arguing that downgrades and bumping don't happen with airlines. They do happen and there is not much airlines can do in many of the instances to prevent it. For instance, if they have to swap for a smaller aircraft, then chances are there will be some customers who get pushed out of J.

What is crucial is how that is handled. Airlines with dignity and integrity, and who actually value their most loyal frequent flyers (i.e. Platinums) will go above and beyond what is required. They will do what they can to soften what is already a difficult blow for the customer. It goes beyond just saying here's some bonus points for your trouble. It means crews handle the situation delicately to ensure those impacted not only understand what is going on, but appreciate that they are being looked after. It means listening to the customer and their concerns. Maybe they are fine travelling a couple hours later to ensure they get J. Maybe they are fine seated in Y if you give them a bulkhead seat and a J catering (above the usual points).

I'm not sure how you delicately handle a downgrade situation when passengers are already seated on the plane. But I sure as heck know that having them take their belongings and slink into Y as though they were caught invading the J seats is inappropriate.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The may or may not be an acceptable remedy. If you are flying Sydney to LA in J and get downgraded to Y a 75% discount won't cut it as I'm seeing $16K for J return versus $2.7K for Y return for travel dates in October.

But you’re ok when this is the same compensation offered under EU261?

The passengers could have elected to keep business class, but on the next flight.

 

[Must...Fly!]

But you’re ok when this is the same compensation offered under EU261?

The passengers could have elected to keep business class, but on the next flight.

Tend to agree with you, sometimes it's just bad luck. It's ultimately public transport and therefore subject to all sorts of swings and roundabouts...

 

[Bayside Flyer]

Perhaps QF should book these “crew” on another flight with Virgin, or Rex or…..

 

[Pushka]

I'm not sure how you delicately handle a downgrade situation when passengers are already seated on the plane. But I sure as heck know that having them take their belongings and slink into Y as though they were caught invading the J seats is inappropriate.

We didn't want to get kicked off as we had a connecting international flight. But it was extremely embarassing.

 

[Danger]

Three instances out of how many thousands of business class seats? The only reason it’s news is because the compensation is opaque.
...

That and the fact the aggrieved were

I'm surprised the elderly couple on 3AW hadn't met during the war, lost their home in Cyclone Tracy and are on invalid pensions. The 21-year-old bong-smoking European backpacker with dreadlocks and a nose ring whose parents parted with hard-earned Avios just to send their son Down Under to learn a thing or two about life sure aint gonna make the papers.

 

[SOPOOR]

We didn't want to get kicked off as we had a connecting international flight. But it was extremely embarassing.

Ive never been moved or down graded or upgraded in my life, but thats one aspect i didnt consider

If youre already seated and they tell you to move, wouldnt this feel the same as feeling like youve been kicked off for being drunk and abusive, or youre a crimimal, to the people around you.

I would

 

[Pushka]

Ive never been moved or down graded or upgraded in my life, but thats one aspect i didnt consider

If youre already seated and they tell you to move, wouldnt this feel the same as feeling like youve been kicked off for being drunk and abusive, or youre a crimimal, to the people around you.

I would

Exactly. Or we'd simply decided to plonk ourselves in J but only have a BP for Y. And the crew didn't explain anything to those sitting around us as to what had happened.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

In the end, they (QF) do have the wordings, that for "operational safety and security reasons we might have to move you from your assigned seat" or words to that effect.
Meaning that they can move you, for any reason that fits into those 3.
In a booking, AKL - BNE, I lost my window seat in J, not really important to this thread, but just because I was a bit late in doing OLCI, I lost the window seat I had been chosen when booking, paid J.
It was a 330, so still good to have J middle aisle, but still leaves a bad taste that QF can do anything, as they please.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Exactly. Or we'd simply decided to plonk ourselves in J but only have a BP for Y. And the crew didn't explain anything to those sitting around us as to what had happened.

Now that I think about it, if a flight attendant made an announcement that due to overbooking some passengers have had to move to new seats and we apologize for any inconvenience caused would be an example of how to handle this situation gracefully. Maybe also having the purser go to your seat shortly after departure apologizing for the downgrade and offering a treat as a token of appreciation would also help as well.

 

[Pushka]

Now that I think about it, if a flight attendant made an announcement that due to overbooking some passengers have had to move to new seats and we apologize for any inconvenience caused would be an example of how to handle this situation gracefully. Maybe also having the purser go to your seat shortly after departure apologizing for the downgrade and offering a treat as a token of appreciation would also help as well.

The CSM did give us a nice G&T and we were very grateful for that but an announcement would have been great. Guess they don’t want others to know about this and unlike some here I think it will become much more prevalent.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Guess they don’t want others to know about this and unlike some here I think it will become much more prevalent.

Recognizing you have an issue goes a long way to showing you have humility and towards rebuilding customer good will lost over the years. Qantas for years has appeared to be the arrogant Australian airline who treats its passengers with little respect and their CEO like a king. That needs to change if Qantas wants to return to being the Spirit of Australia (unless this is truly what being Australian is all about)

-RooFlyer88

 

[Quickstatus]

Qantas downgrade guarantee:

Full ticket refund if a passenger is downgraded.

 

[RichardMEL]

I've had to deal with this but in the VA context. Mother and daughter presented to check in, on separate PNRs. Daughter got bumped due to a downgauge in the old VA A330 days. Mother livid, taking it out on us etc. Totally unfair. I mean, as if we'd have forced her teenage daughter to stay behind for 3 hours while Mum flew. Did she think we were Qantas? Took some work but we got them both on. A few seats were often saved at airport level for such scenarios back then.

Interesting. The key query I have, and you probably can't address this one directly, but for me the key is separate PNR's - so essentially to the carrier separate passengers with no real link. If they were on the same PNR would they potentially have been split do you think?

See for me when it comes to separate bookings then that's a whole other situation to deal with and even if folks are flying together/related etc, from the airline POV, J Smith on Booking A and B Smith on Booking B are two different people and subject to being treated separately imo. Sure, common sense comes into it when a human is reviewing the situation, but when it comes to algorithms picking out people to "inconvenience" then to m it would be totally understandable in that instance.

I do wonder how much of these stories is a result of the disempowerment of agents at the airport for Qantas and closure of ticketing desks etc.

I definitely agree that this is probably part of the problem.

 

[Quickstatus]

I do wonder how much of these stories is a result of the disempowerment of agents at the airport for Qantas and closure of ticketing desks etc.

Sure, common sense comes into it when a human is reviewing the situation, but when it comes to algorithms picking out people

The assumption is that the Human is empowered to make appropriate changes in spite of what the LCD screen is saying

 

[madrooster]

If they were on the same PNR would they potentially have been split do you think?

No. The system will not, by automation, split up a PNR.

For clarity, two PNRs that have been "linked" are still functionally separate PNRs.

The main useful function of "linking" PNRs is when the carrier uses Amadeus and if the PNRs are correctly linked, then they will appear as if it is one PNR in departure control. It will also appear as one PNR on OLCI etc. In an on the day of departure disruption scenario, generally it would result in pax being kept together if linked.

However with carriers that are not using Amadeus, the linking does next to nothing.