Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

[JohnK]

It’s simply an outcome of IRROPS management. In the day of departure a full Y seat is likely going to be available, so they put you in that.

The problem is that there is no follow up.

Well there's IRROPS and there's Qantas.

I'd love to see this new policy that the @TheInsider has been referring to recently.

 

[encryptededdy]

Tomorrow's QF11 has been downgraded to the old A380 config. Per my friend booked on the flight, the PE cabin had almost all seats assigned in the new config, and the old config that it was just downgraded to is full (seat select wise) and it has about ½ the PE seats. I wonder how many people are getting bumped.

 

[Pushka]

Tomorrow's QF11 has been downgraded to the old A380 config. Per my friend booked on the flight, the PE cabin had almost all seats assigned in the new config, and the old config that it was just downgraded to is full (seat select wise) and it has about ½ the PE seats. I wonder how many people are getting bumped.

Maybe @mviy 's friends just now?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Another day another "couple split up and one downgraded" story for QF:

'They made up a story': Qantas continues to frustrate consumers

Qantas has again left customers frustrated after an elderly couple celebrating a birthday were made to sit separately due to the carrier overbooking the flight. Travel agent and daughter of the elderly couple, Maree Sinclair, says her parents had booked business class months ago and when they...

www.3aw.com.au

I would say this. One, the "travel agent" daughter of the victims has it wrong - she claimed QF lied about how they chose people to bump down and alleged it was the check in agent that decided that an "older couple" wouldn't create much fuss. They were told it was the system working on status (and we here on AFF know this is almost certainly the case).

I would be surprised if airport staff actually had a say on this as the priority should always be given based on status then fare class. Otherwise what is the point of loyalty? The reason people continue to patronize Qantas is that they are rewarded for all the stuff-ups they encountered with them. I would also think as a travel agent they would figure out how to ensure their travellers don't get screwed by the airline.

That aside, this is yet another poor story. Who knows if flight was oversold, or what, but end result is another really POOR handling by QF. The route is uncertain as the person being interviewed never specified. However given the couple were allegedly told they would be downgraded to PE, I'm going to guess SIN. However, there was only J and Y (so I assume A330). Again the person called it a direct lie. I am not so sure - sometimes MEL-SIN (I am assuming flight was out of MEL) is on a 787 which has W, but also has 330's so it may have just been a poor assumption on the QF stffers end rather than a direct lie, but of course there's just not enough information.

I wonder if the route had international first class service? If so, I would imagine in such circumstances an OpUp to F is in order. Even if that isn't the case there are always options. You could put them on another flight that day operated by you or with a partner/competitor. This again highlights the need for there being consumer protection rights in Australia. The fact of the matter is most Aussies don't know of the presence of MC99 nor are willing to go to tribunal/court to get the enforcement of said rights under the convention.

That aside, why split up a couple (and while age should have nothing to do with it, of course you think an older pax who paid for J shouldn't have to cop it). Again though, assuming the pax were on same booking as a couple and in paid J then why split them like that (as with the vet)? It kind of doesn't make sense. Now maybe all the solo pax had status, but still... I don't know. again it's anecdotal "evidence' of a interview on the radio, but still.. seems fishy, or perhaps more QF running true to form.

Because if you don't split them up and both fly economy you won't have J filled up to maximize profits.

What's worse is this was an international service it seems. Now, even if it was to NZ (but doesn't sound like it was), it's a much bigger inconvenience being put into Y than a shorter domestic hop (not that either is really acceptable mind you).

It would be interesting to see where they were traveling to. If it was Canada, then the APPR would apply. If to the EU and if the flight was marketed by a European airline, then EU261 would most certainly apply there.

My gut feeling is that this wasn't a case of overselling (I didn't think QF oversold F or J as a matter of practice?) but there may have been a aircraft swap. Not enough information to know though.

Many possible reasons including staff travel, overselling, aircraft swap, inoperable seat(s), fuel and weight restrictions to name but a few. Irrespective of the reason it is foreseeable that such a thing should happen and any quality airline should be prepared with options for impacted travellers. If that means seating them in a higher class of travel or putting them on an alternate flight so be it.

Supposedly offered $100 and some proportion of fare refund (I think she said 75%? unsure on that).

If this were to happen to me I would demand at a minimum a pass into the Flounge, $100 plus the 75% discount plus whatever seat I damn well want in coach. And that's the bare minimum. Most likely I'd be going after getting put on another flight and having QF pay for hotels and meals as necessary.

QF just keeps seeming to kick own goals.

This was likely Alan Joyce's QF. Whether things will change under Aunty Hudson remains to be seen but we should give her a chance. How much worse could she be compared to Uncle?

-RooFlyer88

 

[encryptededdy]

Maybe @mviy 's friends just now?

Nah that seems to be on QF1. I do suspect it's the same issue (that old config A380 getting subbed in) though.

 

[UP4014]

Putting some context

Does any other first world developed country's premier airline have such disgusting service levels????

I could guess the answer

Plenty, they look nice and shiny on the outside.

 

[drron]

So a second older couple split up. To me it is starting to stink of ageism. Maybe they think older folk won't put up as much fight. they better not try it on Mrsdrron. But then again as we don't fly QFi they won't ever have that chance.

And @kangarooflyer88 the daughter as a TA probably though as a couple with paid J fares that they were pretty safe from being downgraded. How would you have made them safer from being downgraded apart from booking them on another airline?

 

[RichardMEL]

I would be surprised if airport staff actually had a say on this as the priority should always be given based on status then fare class. Otherwise what is the point of loyalty? The reason people continue to patronize Qantas is that they are rewarded for all the stuff-ups they encountered with them. I would also think as a travel agent they would figure out how to ensure their travellers don't get screwed by the airline.

Listening to this individual I'm not convinced she is a very good one - or at least not terribly knowledgeable in this area tbh. First the insinuations she made about the choice of pax to downgrade, plus an assertion that since they had boarding passes they shouldn't be downgraded - uh huh. Not.

I wonder if the route had international first class service? If so, I would imagine in such circumstances an OpUp to F is in order. Even if that isn't the case there are always options. You could put them on another flight that day operated by you or with a partner/competitor. This again highlights the need for there being consumer protection rights in Australia. The fact of the matter is most Aussies don't know of the presence of MC99 nor are willing to go to tribunal/court to get the enforcement of said rights under the convention.

No. It can't have had F since it would also have had PE (ie: A380), and it's unlikely if it was a 4 class aircraft that they would downgrade paying J pax if there was space to upgrade into F (but I concede, not impossible of course).

Because if you don't split them up and both fly economy you won't have J filled up to maximize profits.

Cynical attitude but it still makes NO sense to me. QF seemingly needed one seat in J for whatever reason. There wasn't another solo J pax to piss off over pissing off two people? Why would an algorithm pull apart 2 pax on a booking for one seat (this is where I may err a little with the TA daughter tbh). Now, since it's anecdotal and we have no idea if they were on the same booking (which seems a reasonable assumption, but plenty of us know that doesn't mean it is correct) or not.

This is the 78 year old Vet situation repeated - they only needed one seat yet broke up a couple to do so? it doesn't pass my "pub test" tbh

If this were to happen to me I would demand at a minimum a pass into the Flounge, $100 plus the 75% discount plus whatever seat I damn well want in coach. And that's the bare minimum. Most likely I'd be going after getting put on another flight and having QF pay for hotels and meals as necessary.

LOL. You can demand all you like. What you'd get is another matter. Good luck with that if you're ever in this unfortunate situation.

 

[mrsterryn]

I do realise this is Qantas thread and they are well and truly being lambasted over these involuntary downgrades , does it happen often with other airlines ?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It was mentioned very quickly, but in addition to the $100 voucher the passenger also received 75% of the fare back. And had a spare seat beside them.

Doesn’t sound terribly awful.

This guy is travelling around the country going to conferences, and using social media on board. Not really coming across as a ‘poor little old man’?

But doesn’t QF’s terms and conditions say they will ask for volunteers?

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2023

I do realise this is Qantas thread and they are well and truly being lambasted over these involuntary downgrades , does it happen often with other airlines ?

I don’t think it happens all that often on Qantas! There are dozens of flights, thousands of seats in business class every week, and we’ve heard of three people?

It does happen on other airlines, but the difference is the compensation. Compensation is clearly listed, and that’s what’s given. Not sure why aussie airlines don’t have that transparency.

 

[Pete98765432]

Cynical attitude but it still makes NO sense to me. QF seemingly needed one seat in J for whatever reason. There wasn't another solo J pax to piss off over pissing off two people? Why would an algorithm pull apart 2 pax on a booking for one seat

I understand your reasoning, but as a solo passenger I don’t think that I should be more likely to be downgraded just because I’m traveling alone. Apply the criteria evenly.

 

[Lynda2475]

Why should a higher status solo traveller be downgraded before one of a lower status couple? Age shouldn't trump status. Being a couple doesn't make you more deserving.

 

[clifford]

It does happen on other airlines, but the difference is the compensation. Compensation is clearly listed, and that’s what’s given. Not sure why aussie airlines don’t have that transparency.

Because they can...

 

[drron]

No. It can't have had F since it would also have had PE (ie: A380), and it's unlikely if it was a 4 class aircraft that they would downgrade paying J pax if there was space to upgrade into F (but I concede, not impossible of course).

We did get forced from our J seats on one occasion as J was overbooked and we were on award tickets.
Fortunately we were on AA and ended up really enjoying our F seats.

 

[Pushka]

It was mentioned very quickly, but in addition to the $100 voucher the passenger also received 75% of the fare back. And had a spare seat beside them.

Doesn’t sound terribly awful.

This guy is travelling around the country going to conferences, and using social media on board. Not really coming across as a ‘poor little old man’?

But doesn’t QF’s terms and conditions say they will ask for volunteers?

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2023

Three people in the last 3 weeks though ......and we sure as heck didn't volunteer. We were a couple. Both downgraded. Both WP. Maybe we were also the oldest onboard?

 

[TheInsider]

Well there's IRROPS and there's Qantas.

I'd love to see this new policy that the @TheInsider has been referring to recently.

Meaning the International Downgrades? It's been around since December 2022.
Domestic there is nothing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Three people in the last 3 weeks though ......and we sure as heck didn't volunteer. We were a couple. Both downgraded. Both WP. Maybe we were also the oldest onboard?

Three instances out of how many thousands of business class seats? The only reason it’s news is because the compensation is opaque.

It does say they will ask for volunteers, where possible. The problem these days is online checkin… they don’t know no-shows until 5 minutes before departure

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

And QF is now deepening its relationship with a PR firm to repair its reputation.

 

[Pushka]

Three instances out of how many thousands of business class seats? The only reason it’s news is because the compensation is opaque.

It does say they will ask for volunteers, where possible. The problem these days is online checkin… they don’t know no-shows until 5 minutes before departure

None of the three were asked. And it’s also about the process

 

[MEL_Traveller]

None of the three were asked. And it’s also about the process

It’s ‘where possible’.

The latest story got 75% refund, $100 voucher, and a spare seat beside them.