Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

[RooFlyer]

That tech crew may have intended to be operating ex-ADL or even somewhere else originally at the time they checked in but then were asked by crewing to go to MEL post check in. Such situations can happen.

Put another way, they were checked in to fly somewhere else, later than the MEL flight. About the time of boarding of the MEL flight, or a bit later, they were told they had to be on the MEL flight; they demanded their J entitlement, so the flight was delayed so they could make their way to board and in the meantime two seated J pax were ejected in an embarrassing fashion and sent down to economy.

I'll give it to you that it is a possible scenario, although pretty unlikely IMO and as I think we all agree, handled appallingly. I mean, honestly ...

ME3?

Middle East 3.

 

[RooFlyer]

And apparently Captain radioed ahead to get us an escort through immigration.

The escort met us and left us at departures. Kinda pointless.

I wonder if the 'escort' was to keep an eye on you as potentially disruptive?

 

[Austman]

checked in

Do we know they were actually checked in?

They seemed to know they were going to MEL. That was apparently overheard in the lounge.

I could imagine that, with entitlement to travel in J, if J is full the "check in" in such situations is left to the last moment.

The airline operations might be hoping for last minute cancellations, rebookings, no shows.

For domestic travel, with on-line check in, the airline isn't going to know about all of those until all the pax are on board.

 

[Pushka]

Do we know they were actually checked in?

They seemed to know they were going to MEL. That was apparently overheard in the lounge.

I could imagine that, with entitlement to travel in J, if J is full the "check in" in such situations is left to the last moment.

The airline operations might be hoping for last minute cancellations, rebookings, no shows.

For domestic travel, with on-line check in, the airline isn't going to know about all of those until all the pax are on board.

They were in the QP and we all had to scan our BP to get in.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Interesting story but not entirely surprising. Why you got bumped could be for a number of reasons. Irrespective of the cause, though, I would expect at a minimum that QF would refund whatever money/points you paid for that upgrade. The SD should've bumped some people in Y to middle seats to accommodate your seating request (maybe some lifetime bronze customers). It would have made the situation more messy but would have made you feel a little bit more valued as a World Platinum.

As for the executive, I would have gotten their name so that I could cite them in the detailed email I sent QF. Alternatively, I would have spoken to the exec and told them in no uncertain terms that I expect something in terms of service recovery for this mess up. Some points or something. It is a hassle what you went through and given you fly so much with Qantas to earn World Platinum status they need to do better.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Austman]

They were in the QP and we all had to scan our BP to get in.

I've been in a QP many times without having to scan a BP to get in.

Yesterday being my most recent experience.

I'd imagine that Qantas staff, entitled to use the QP, don't need a scanned BP either?

My point being that it's up to the QP entrance staff.

I'm not saying that your experience wasn't poor.

I'm just commenting that they might not have had a BP until just before they actually boarded? And that Qantas perhaps left it until the last moment, hoping there would be no need to bump J pax down to Y?

 

[Pushka]

But why take us off the plane if this is a regular and acceptable thing to do?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

But why take us off the plane if this is a regular and acceptable thing to do?

I'm not sure if you are familiar with a gent named David Dao. He was a passenger on a United flight who refused to give up his seat a couple years ago and was forcibly dragged off the plane by Chicago police. The humiliation to the airline from the footage from passengers of the incident easily cost United millions in bad PR to say nothing of the money they spent settling a lawsuit with Dr. Dao. It is hard to predict how passengers would react to such a thing (even if they hold World Platinum status) which is why they deplaned you initially. If you had an outburst it would be trivial for them to keep you off the plane, outside the sights of fellow passengers with smartphones.

Is this a common thing? Well I've flown over 225 times across a number of airlines, sometimes in business class and haven't experienced that yet. But regardless of how common it is, Qantas needs to have a procedure in place for these situations. Simply pushing your most valued customers into a middle seat in economy is inappropriate. As I've said before, inconveniencing a no status or lifetime bronze who maybe flies Qantas once a year to visit grandma is WAY better than someone who flies with them regularly.

I've said this before and I'll say this again, Australia does not have a culture of customer service. It is not in the spirit of Australia to provide any level of customer service. And I say this now living in Canada, UK and Australia. Banks close super early and the people assigned to handle these situations are all offshored to the lowest common denominator.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Mr H]

I'm afraid @Pushka that by the end of this thread, it will be pointed out that this was actually your fault and besides, Virgin is worse.

I'm suspecting this situation was was the result of something the OP did - even if they may not realise it.

By the bye, it is worth noting that VA is actually worse for this than QF.

 

[sudoer]

They were in the QP and we all had to scan our BP to get in.

Qantas can print physical standby boarding passes - the seat shows as SBY.

 

[JohnK]

I'm suspecting this situation was was the result of something the OP did - even if they may not realise it.

I've met @Pushka and even though we disagree on most things I don't believe they would have caused this issue.

I've never seen anything like this in my travels where a boarded passenger is taken off the flight and then reassigned seats when getting back on.

It's not a good look. In fact it's an awful customer experience and one of the worse ways possible you can downgrade someone. This should be settled by some very sweet compensation not just a refund of the points used for upgrade.

 

[33kft]

Methinks @Mr H was seeking to prove a previous prediction about the direction of this thread true

 

[bcworld]

I would expect at a minimum that QF would refund whatever money/points you paid for that upgrade.

Surely that goes without saying?? Although, when QF downgraded me...I was made to beg for the points / surcharge / taxes difference. If I hadn't filled in their multiple forms I wouldn't have got a thing.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I'm suspecting this situation was was the result of something the OP did - even if they may not realise it.

That’s always a possibility with these traveller stories. However would you agree that it is equally probable that this is a Qantas stuff up? I think anyone who has Gold status or better with Qantas has at least one story of a stuff up flying them.

By the bye, it is worth noting that VA is actually worse for this than QF.

Do you have any stats to back that up (I.e. denied boardings)?

Qantas can print physical standby boarding passes - the seat shows as SBY.

Most airlines do this. Whether an agent lets them into the lounge depends on airline policy and sometimes that mood of the lounge agent.

Surely that goes without saying?? Although, when QF downgraded me...I was made to beg for the points / surcharge / taxes difference. If I hadn't filled in their multiple forms I wouldn't have got a thing.

If it goes without saying there would be no need to say it now would there be? The fact that we loyal QF customers have to beg and chase QF down for everything suggests that it is far from obvious.

What I will point out is others do treat these situations differently. When I qualified for United Premier Gold back in 2017 my first flight as Gold received a complimentary upgrade (ORD to YYZ) to business. That flight went mechanical on the runway and I went to customer service for assistance. Within 5 minutes I was given a hotel voucher, $100 USD in meal vouchers and a J ticket on Air Canada the following morning. No questions asked, no pushback. That is what a spirit of customer service looks like for elites elsewhere.

-RooFlyer88

 

[love_the_life]

I'm suspecting this situation was was the result of something the OP did - even if they may not realise it.

By the bye, it is worth noting that VA is actually worse for this than QF.

I would hope the first line is tongue in cheek.

Pushka as a WP is an experienced traveller and would not make an error that meant she was not entitled to J. Whilst the upgrade from Y to J was retracted, it was the way QF did it that was the issue.

 

[Austman]

But why take us off the plane if this is a regular and acceptable thing to do?

I can't imagine it's a regular thing to do.

But with domestic travel (go directly to the gate if HLO and online check in), until all pax actually present at the gate, it can't be known what the final occupancy will be.

I'd imagine there would be a metric of probability?

But if on board, seated pax had to be downgraded from their class before take off, I'd also imagine it would be better to do that off the plane?

Why certain staff can trump paying pax is another question. But I know that's been the case with Qantas for many decades. It's nothing new at all.

 

[Pushka]

A
Rooflyer said that tongue in cheek because of the Qantas apologists twisting into being my fault. Or maybe it is tongue in cheek from you. But I'm not the only one here who doubts it.
So somehow I doctored this text?


I have three different boarding passes for this flight now.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I can't imagine it's a regular thing to do.

It likely isn't a common thing. Which if that's the case it should be no big deal for Qantas to go out of their way in offering compensation. After all we're talking about a one-off thing, not a systemic issue. In other jurisdictions (i.e. EU or Canada) cash compensation would be called for.

But with domestic travel (go directly to the gate if HLO and online check in), until all pax actually present at the gate, it can't be known what the final occupancy will be.

That is true, this is always a possibility

But if on board, seated pax had to be downgraded from their class before take off, I'd also imagine it would be better to do that off the plane?

It would. But it would be even better if they had something other than here's your boarding pass. If they said, we deposited 25,000 Qantas Points into your account, and we've secured for you the best seat on the plane, that would be one thing. Simply pushing them into a middle seat as a valued elite is another.

Why certain staff can trump paying pax is another question. But I know that's been the case with Qantas for many decades. It's nothing new at all.

Well pilots, mechanics and other skilled workers in the profession do have terms written into their Enterprise Agreement where they need to be provided a certain class of service. This isn't an Australian thing, almost every airline in the world has such terms. And it makes sense. You don't want a pilot deadheading in to be tired when they have to operate another flight.

 

[Pushka]

I've met @Pushka and even though we disagree on most things I don't believe they would have caused this issue.

I've never seen anything like this in my travels where a boarded passenger is taken off the flight and then reassigned seats when getting back on.

It's not a good look. In fact it's an awful customer experience and one of the worse ways possible you can downgrade someone. This should be settled by some very sweet compensation not just a refund of the points used for upgrade.

Thankyou JohnK.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

One other consideration: what factors does QF use to determine who gets the boot from a premium cabin? I hope they don't base it on something silly like solely the fare class or whether they use points to pay for the flight/upgrade (remember points and cash are the same thing as a matter of law). In theory Qantas should have first gone by status (i.e. bronzes get the boot first) then in the case of matching status factors like fare class, enterprise relationship (i.e. flyer works for a company that has a huge contract with QF). I would be surprised if OP was somehow at the top of the boot list based on such criteria.

-RooFlyer88