Downgraded from Business Class.

[EmilyP]

As as far as going to A Current Affair or the Courier Mail (someone was suggesting the front page no less!), you are kidding aren't you. Here we have this pretty well off couple (if they can afford $15k for airfares and do it reasonably often), who had a bad experience but for one it was reversed before the plane took off, they are then going to get a refund of which the amount is pure speculation at the moment, plus a $500 voucher, plus 50,000 points. I can understand why they would be annoyed, very annoyed, but let's keep this in perspective. (Also do you think media do overly negative articles about their biggest advertisers?)

The bolded is a very interesting assumption.

So because they can afford to buy business class tickets as a last hurrah trip in their retirement they are not afforded the same rights as people who fly economy?

 

[EmilyP]

Agreed. As posted many pages back, when this happens and you're not happy with the alternative - you need to pushback and ensure the lazy staff don't manage the issue to suit their agenda. This couple allowed the airline to treat them poorly...

I wonder if the staff are on some sort of bonus system to minimise the costs to the airline when these things occur. The actions of the LAX staff suggest this is possible.

Amaroo, what do you suggest my parents should have done?

 

[Princess Fiona]

The bolded is a very interesting assumption.

So because they can afford to buy business class tickets as a last hurrah trip in their retirement they are not afforded the same rights as people who fly economy?

I don't think that is the point of the post. The point is that the media may well be uninterested in a story on business class travellers.

 

[serfty]

The bolded is a very interesting assumption.

So because they can afford to buy business class tickets as a last hurrah trip in their retirement they are not afforded the same rights as people who fly economy?

This is in reference to Media here - and nothing else. Entities like "A Current Affair or the Courier Mail" might NOT be interested in covering issues such as this due to issues like the the reasons put forward - sad, but unfortunately true.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't think that is the point of the post. The point is that the media may well be uninterested in a story on business class travellers.

but i the media might be interested in the refund calculation. As it is initially seems manifestly unfair (pending the final outcome I hasten to say!) 'couple on trip of a lifetime separated, flown in economy, and offered only $700 refund out of $3750'. i could see an angle.

 

[get me outta here]

I think the angle is older retired couple done over by large uncaring unfair entity when they had paid so much to be comfortable for the reason that older people may have. And, then offered so little, emphasis on unfair. I think some people watching such an 'expose' may be surprised at how often over selling occurs and that it could happen to any innocent traveller.

 

[Princess Fiona]

but i the media might be interested in the refund calculation. As it is initially seems manifestly unfair (pending the final outcome I hasten to say!) 'couple on trip of a lifetime separated, flown in economy, and offered only $700 refund out of $3750'. i could see an angle.

Perhaps they may. I guess we won't know unless and until someone approaches them.
Personally I wouldn't send my parents anywhere near ACA or News Ltd.

 

[amaroo]

Amaroo, what do you suggest my parents should have done?

Refuse to accept the attitude of the senior staff member. As I posted many pages back ... http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-from-business-class-63686-7.html#post1133890

IMO allowing a supervisor to walk away during a conversation - is not standing your ground! No disrespect to the couple involved - confrontation is not everyone's cup of tea.

It's a terrible situation being manhandled with such indifference. I don't for a second underestimate the emotion involved. Having first hand experience with the exact same situation - I know exactly how it feels and I know how bloody upsetting it can be.

In my case, they attempted to brush me off with the same attitude and terrible tactics - I've no doubt it works on the majority of people. My experience with this type of amateurish capper is proof it doesn't work on everyone!

 

[wandering_fred]

Maybe I was/have been "spoiled" by the recent ABC TV program "The Check-Out". One of the recurring themes of that program is that Australian Consumer Affairs has been/is willing to support the consumer when the vendor attempts to minimize their responsibilities. I hope that avenue is not being ignored.

And as I mentioned (much) earlier on this thread, being based in PER, I have a reasonable (OneWorld) alternative for travel form PER to the USA. Perhaps having to compete with said competition in the customer relations area is one reason PER has no QFi flights.

Perhaps a movement to install European style consumer aviation related rules will be the outcome of this episode.
And yes I will still fly QF when it is advantageous to do so. But this thread highlights one of the points which enters the evaluation of "advantageous". And I am rapidly approaching the age of the passengers involved (If not already there)

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[EmilyP]

This is in reference to Media here - and nothing else. Entities like "A Current Affair or the Courier Mail" might NOT be interested in covering issues such as this due to issues like the the reasons put forward - sad, but unfortunately true.

I agree with the media aspect, however the assumption was made that these are 'well off people'. That is not the case.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Thanks everyone for their input. Will continue to update as things happen.

 

[EmilyP]

Refuse to accept the attitude of the senior staff member. As I posted many pages back ... http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-from-business-class-63686-7.html#post1133890



It's a terrible situation being manhandled with such indifference. I don't for a second underestimate the emotion involved. Having first hand experience with the exact same situation - I know exactly how it feels and I know how bloody upsetting it can be.

In my case, they attempted to brush me off with the same attitude and terrible tactics - I've no doubt it works on the majority of people. My experience with this type of amateurish capper is proof it doesn't work on everyone!

When someone physically walks away from you I'm not sure what the remedy to that is, unless you get physical yourself which obviously would have been stupid and illegal to do.

Nothing my parents could have done at that point would have changed the fact that they were not going to get their business class seats that they paid for.

They have lodged a complaint about the ground staff and the supervisor's attitude. Just unclear as to what more they could have actually done at the time?

 

[amaroo]

When someone physically walks away from you I'm not sure what the remedy to that is, unless you get physical yourself which obviously would have been stupid and illegal to do.

Nothing my parents could have done at that point would have changed the fact that they were not going to get their business class seats that they paid for.

They have lodged a complaint about the ground staff and the supervisor's attitude. Just unclear as to what more they could have actually done at the time?

Misconception that you need to get physical to get your point across.

IME just because someone says No ... doesn't mean that's their final position.

Best wishes to your parents ... Hope they get satisfactory compensation and a written apology for the appalling treatment by LAX staff.

 

[whatmeworry]

I wonder which really important people needed to fly that day?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

They have lodged a complaint about the ground staff and the supervisor's attitude. Just unclear as to what more they could have actually done at the time?

Quite possibly nothing more might have been able to be done. If the agent walks away and you decide to chase it up, all it takes if for the agent to claim they feel 'overwhelmed' and the situation can escalate.

As for the media element - what's the market audience for ACA and Today Tonight? I doubt it's 18-25 year olds. It could quite probably be the exact people who might be travelling business class and have the same thing happen to them.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I completely agree. The T&C's for Airlines not covered by the EU regulations are poor, unreasonable and one-sided when it comes to refunds in the case of involuntary downgrades.
They are likely one-sided for a few other things as well.

so the real issue is that Australians have very little home grown protection. Instead of continuing for another 50 pages of increasingly unhappy debate, perhaps the people who feel passionately about this should contact consumer affairs and say it is about time legislation was created in Australia to regulate what happens with overselling and in particular to ensure that refunds are adequate. I intend doing this when I return home...

 

[Flying mermaid]

For some people, travel is not so simple or easy going. Sometimes people who are older, who have a physical or medical condition, very large or tall people, or perhaps those who have significant work pressures. People may book and pay for premium classes for their own reasons which may be very important or even critical. If a person is very adamant that they do not want to be bumped to economy or travel the next day, the airline should look for alternatives. Airlines need to respect their customers. Delays and weather and equipment changes do occur but that was not the case here. Overbooking is a terrible practice that needs to stop.

Also the contingent who have been saying you should always allow for something to go wrong and allow for extra days - where does this stop - if you have a complicated itinerary which I have just had in Africa, do I allow for extra days for each sector plus accommodation? In this case ( not allowing for sectors where there are multiple flight per day, so I can gamble that I will still get on a later flight), I would have had to allow 9 extra days and goodness knows how many thousands of $ in extra accommodation in order to be viewed as a sensible traveller.....

 

[Princess Fiona]

so the real issue is that Australians have very little home grown protection. Instead of continuing for another 50 pages of increasingly unhappy debate, perhaps the people who feel passionately about this should contact consumer affairs and say it is about time legislation was created in Australia to regulate what happens with overselling and in particular to ensure that refunds are adequate. I intend doing this when I return home...

Very well put. We need our own version of EC 261/2004.
I think if it was up to the individual member states of the EU many would have exactly what we have here ie. Nothing

 

[OATEK]

Also the contingent who have been saying you should always allow for something to go wrong and allow for extra days - where does this stop - if you have a complicated itinerary which I have just had in Africa, do I allow for extra days for each sector plus accommodation? In this case ( not allowing for sectors where there are multiple flight per day, so I can gamble that I will still get on a later flight), I would have had to allow 9 extra days and goodness knows how many thousands of $ in extra accommodation in order to be viewed as a sensible traveller.....

Yes, it is difficult to allow for every contingency, but some are more important than others. I know when travelling in Europe that there are 10 different ways to get from A to B, through direct flights, indirect flights, trains, boats and cars. So my contingency is smaller. But as I said up thread, for the key flights (eg SYD-EUR and back) I would always allow a day between arrival for the next leg, and in case departure is delayed coming home. So 2 days in my next 27 (or if return delayed 28) day adventure, of which hopefully neither will be needed.

 

[N860CR]

so the real issue is that Australians have very little home grown protection. Instead of continuing for another 50 pages of increasingly unhappy debate, perhaps the people who feel passionately about this should contact consumer affairs and say it is about time legislation was created in Australia to regulate what happens with overselling and in particular to ensure that refunds are adequate. I intend doing this when I return home...

Yes.

And this unfortunately applies to all consumers in Australia, not just airline passengers.

After having just been through ordeals with the Telecommunications Ombudsman (taking 9 months - and blatantly favoring Telstra throughout) and the Financial Ombudsman (this one 12 months, again all about favouring AAMI who never even responded to them), it's clear there are major consumer protection issues in this county.

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, when someone walks away from you in that sort of situation it is a slap in the face, rude in the extreme AND infuriating, but best to just take a deep breath. After this long thread and now being forewarned, perhaps the only thing to do is to try to catch up to them whilst giving them a non threatening wide berth and overtaking them, smile sweetly and say, "sorry, I thought we were still speaking ... ". But I guess nothing could have been done in reality.

When someone physically walks away from you I'm not sure what the remedy to that is, unless you get physical yourself which obviously would have been stupid and illegal to do.

Nothing my parents could have done at that point would have changed the fact that they were not going to get their business class seats that they paid for.

They have lodged a complaint about the ground staff and the supervisor's attitude. Just unclear as to what more they could have actually done at the time?