Downgraded from Business Class.

[RAM]

I think everyone here is trying to make this sound far more sinister than it really is. My guess it was laziness on the part of the ground staff. They probably got told "you need to bump two people off business" and they thought "ow geez that's going to be a hassle".

So the first customers arrive. They are asked if they would be willing to move to tomorrow's flight. (That's what I don't understand everyone is saying they weren't asked - but they were asked if they wanted to go to tomorrow). Customers say no tomorrow is not an option. So then the lazy customer service agent just says they have to be bumped so that they can get on with their day and not have to worry about going through this with every passenger. Certainly poor behaviour on behalf of the Qantas rep but not the conspiracy theory some are suggesting.

Sounds to to me that the underlying issue is that Qantas are generally pretty generous when this happens - we have heard stories of where passengers have been well looked after with a hotel for the night, presumably some allowance for food and incidentals and then often upgraded on the next day. The one place it falls down is when the passengers move to a lower class, it seems the refund of the fare is pretty unreasonable.

As as far as going to A Current Affair or the Courier Mail (someone was suggesting the front page no less!), you are kidding aren't you. Here we have this pretty well off couple (if they can afford $15k for airfares and do it reasonably often), who had a bad experience but for one it was reversed before the plane took off, they are then going to get a refund of which the amount is pure speculation at the moment, plus a $500 voucher, plus 50,000 points. I can understand why they would be annoyed, very annoyed, but let's keep this in perspective. (Also do you think media do overly negative articles about their biggest advertisers?)

I have to disagree with the bulk of your comment. The reality that I've experienced since the late 80s flying Q does have some if not 'sinister' then some anti-customer attitudes.

Worst example: 1994 Business class business trip to Perth from Sydney, flying the morning flight to allow a few hours prep before hosting large dinner for major investors ($500m+ funds). Arrived at SYD nearly 2 hours before flight with seats allocated but had some equipment for subsequent presentations at Burswood Casino for conference. Only 3 check-in desks open (doing both business and economy). 1 Q staffer working very hard, the other two (20-30yr old males) carrying on intense conversation the entire time. Huge and ever lengthening queue.

The 2 between them processed one passenger in the same time as the lady did 5. Time was ticking down to cut-off and I was still a number away. Unluckily as I got to the front of the queue one of the men came free. It was 3 minutes to cut-off so I went. The conversation was continuing in full swing and the chap was not concentrating. He mis-typed my surname multiple times but each time he'd finish typing he'd immediately look away to his buddy and continue talking.

Yes, I missed the cut-off and asked for the two items (roll-up screen and slimline projector) to be tagged and I would carry them to the gate and ask for them to be stowed in the same way as a stroller.

Long story short - "Why would we do that?". Well you have been talking for the last 90 minutes while I have been queuing and unless you do I will miss the flight. "Not my problem". I'm sorry that is your attitude can you please call the airport duty manager. "No!" Ok, turning to the hard working lady I asked her to as I wished to lodge a complaint and get on my flight. "Certainly sir." She paged the ADM but he took over 10 minutes to turn up. The chap who served me kept my booking up on his screen and would not relinquish it (he was senior to the lady it turned out). She had offered to ticket the two items like I'd asked him to do - but he would not budge.

ADM turns up, sorry I was delayed I had to close off the Perth flight for departure. After going through the details including showing him the cabcharge cc docket with date & time as well as several others on the queue voicing their opinions about the two males - he apologised and said but there's nothing I can do as the flight's gone. I'll put you on the next flight (5 hrs later from memory). Suggested he try Ansett to see if they had space, he fluffed around (suspect intentionally) before calling Ansett and declared they'd shut their flight off.

No compensation, no follow-up despite detailed letter etc. It was only a year later that I thought of going through the company secretary - much more effective.

There have been other episodes with getting bumped off flights only to see Q staff (& companions) come running along to board the plane. I immediately call for the airport duty manager (I forget the current title) and make a show of writing down staff's names once I'm told about being bumped. Both times the Q staffers have come back off the flight glaring at me & business associate - without the ADM turning up.

Yes, there is 'policy' and there is what goes on in reality.

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, but don't forget this happened at LAX with contractors in 2014.

I have to disagree with the bulk of your comment. The reality that I've experienced since the late 80s flying Q does have some if not 'sinister' then some anti-customer attitudes.

Worst example: 1994 Business class business trip to Perth from Sydney, flying the morning flight to allow a few hours prep before hosting large dinner for major investors ($500m+ funds). Arrived at SYD nearly 2 hours before flight with seats allocated but had some equipment for subsequent presentations at Burswood Casino for conference. Only 3 check-in desks open (doing both business and economy). 1 Q staffer working very hard, the other two (20-30yr old males) carrying on intense conversation the entire time. Huge and ever lengthening queue.

The 2 between them processed one passenger in the same time as the lady did 5. Time was ticking down to cut-off and I was still a number away. Unluckily as I got to the front of the queue one of the men came free. It was 3 minutes to cut-off so I went. The conversation was continuing in full swing and the chap was not concentrating. He mis-typed my surname multiple times but each time he'd finish typing he'd immediately look away to his buddy and continue talking.

Yes, I missed the cut-off and asked for the two items (roll-up screen and slimline projector) to be tagged and I would carry them to the gate and ask for them to be stowed in the same way as a stroller.

Long story short - "Why would we do that?". Well you have been talking for the last 90 minutes while I have been queuing and unless you do I will miss the flight. "Not my problem". I'm sorry that is your attitude can you please call the airport duty manager. "No!" Ok, turning to the hard working lady I asked her to as I wished to lodge a complaint and get on my flight. "Certainly sir." She paged the ADM but he took over 10 minutes to turn up. The chap who served me kept my booking up on his screen and would not relinquish it (he was senior to the lady it turned out). She had offered to ticket the two items like I'd asked him to do - but he would not budge.

ADM turns up, sorry I was delayed I had to close off the Perth flight for departure. After going through the details including showing him the cabcharge cc docket with date & time as well as several others on the queue voicing their opinions about the two males - he apologised and said but there's nothing I can do as the flight's gone. I'll put you on the next flight (5 hrs later from memory). Suggested he try Ansett to see if they had space, he fluffed around (suspect intentionally) before calling Ansett and declared they'd shut their flight off.

No compensation, no follow-up despite detailed letter etc. It was only a year later that I thought of going through the company secretary - much more effective.

There have been other episodes with getting bumped off flights only to see Q staff (& companions) come running along to board the plane. I immediately call for the airport duty manager (I forget the current title) and make a show of writing down staff's names once I'm told about being bumped. Both times the Q staffers have come back off the flight glaring at me & business associate - without the ADM turning up.

Yes, there is 'policy' and there is what goes on in reality.

 

[RAM]

Yes, but don't forget this happened at LAX with contractors in 2014.

And my point is that there have been issues with Q mainline staff in Australia for over 20 years so it is not a surprise that contract staff in LAX behaved that way.

Disappointing, not reasonable but not unexpected.


Another example (with contract staff in Frankfurt in 1997) this time a worse case (wife out of intensive care and certified fit-to-fly etc) saw us mucked around for several hours so insurance company (Citi CC travel cover) said go straight to airport hotel and they were brilliant. Q (contract?) staff at Frankfurt were terrible. Sorted out by Sydney based insurance call center via Q Sydney operations base.

Whether unlucky or not the only boarding problems I've ever had have been with Q apart from one with BA. None with Ansett, Virgin, Jetstar, Tiger, China Airlines, Etihad, Emirates, JAL, Lufthansa, Malaysian, Thai, United etc. Equipment on plane - Q and Lufthansa.

Bad attitude with customer service seeking redress - Q, Jetstar (flight cancelled and moved to one 10 hours later to/from Hobart each way) and Lufthansa.

General senior mgmt contempt for customers - Q. Pumping up fees & charges so reward redemptions nearly as expensive as discount Y fares and charging more in fuel levies for QI vs JQ flight when JQ plane used more fuel per passenger - what can you say - charges not reflecting costs but mgmt intent.

 

[fersea]

I have to disagree with the bulk of your comment. The reality that I've experienced since the late 80s flying Q does have some if not 'sinister' then some anti-customer attitudes.

Worst example: 1994 Business class business trip to Perth from Sydney, flying the morning flight to allow a few hours prep before hosting large dinner for major investors ($500m+ funds). Arrived at SYD nearly 2 hours before flight with seats allocated but had some equipment for subsequent presentations at Burswood Casino for conference. Only 3 check-in desks open (doing both business and economy). 1 Q staffer working very hard, the other two (20-30yr old males) carrying on intense conversation the entire time. Huge and ever lengthening queue.

The 2 between them processed one passenger in the same time as the lady did 5. Time was ticking down to cut-off and I was still a number away. Unluckily as I got to the front of the queue one of the men came free. It was 3 minutes to cut-off so I went. The conversation was continuing in full swing and the chap was not concentrating. He mis-typed my surname multiple times but each time he'd finish typing he'd immediately look away to his buddy and continue talking.

Yes, I missed the cut-off and asked for the two items (roll-up screen and slimline projector) to be tagged and I would carry them to the gate and ask for them to be stowed in the same way as a stroller.

Long story short - "Why would we do that?". Well you have been talking for the last 90 minutes while I have been queuing and unless you do I will miss the flight. "Not my problem". I'm sorry that is your attitude can you please call the airport duty manager. "No!" Ok, turning to the hard working lady I asked her to as I wished to lodge a complaint and get on my flight. "Certainly sir." She paged the ADM but he took over 10 minutes to turn up. The chap who served me kept my booking up on his screen and would not relinquish it (he was senior to the lady it turned out). She had offered to ticket the two items like I'd asked him to do - but he would not budge.

ADM turns up, sorry I was delayed I had to close off the Perth flight for departure. After going through the details including showing him the cabcharge cc docket with date & time as well as several others on the queue voicing their opinions about the two males - he apologised and said but there's nothing I can do as the flight's gone. I'll put you on the next flight (5 hrs later from memory). Suggested he try Ansett to see if they had space, he fluffed around (suspect intentionally) before calling Ansett and declared they'd shut their flight off.

No compensation, no follow-up despite detailed letter etc. It was only a year later that I thought of going through the company secretary - much more effective.

There have been other episodes with getting bumped off flights only to see Q staff (& companions) come running along to board the plane. I immediately call for the airport duty manager (I forget the current title) and make a show of writing down staff's names once I'm told about being bumped. Both times the Q staffers have come back off the flight glaring at me & business associate - without the ADM turning up.

Yes, there is 'policy' and there is what goes on in reality.

Interesting post. You say you disagree then proceed to tell a rather long winded story which is exactly along the lines of what I described in the first place.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Another example (with contract staff in Frankfurt in 1997) this time a worse case (wife out of intensive care and certified fit-to-fly etc) saw us mucked around for several hours so insurance company (Citi CC travel cover) said go straight to airport hotel and they were brilliant. Q (contract?) staff at Frankfurt were terrible. Sorted out by Sydney based insurance call center via Q Sydney operations base.

You don't give any detail on what the issue was however a frequent occurrence is medical staff giving patients a medical clearance form but neglecting to forward it to the airline so they can clear the pax ahead of time as being fit to fly.

If the pax turns up at the airport without the airline having given approval for uplift then there will be delays as the airline's medical team need liaise with the patient's treating doctor or specialist to ensure they're medically fit to undertake the journey.

There's a lot more work involved than you think particularly if the airline has to supply oxygen or if pax have to be assigned seats adjacent to a medical power point etc.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Just booked a ridiculously expensive J flight to bring Master FM home for Christmas. Flight looks quite full and he is only silver, so feeling nervous.....

 

[OATEK]

Just booked a ridiculously expensive J flight to bring Master FM home for Christmas. Flight looks quite full and he is only silver, so feeling nervous.....

All of a sudden the old adage "you get what you pay for" doesn't ring true!

 

[Pushka]

Just booked a ridiculously expensive J flight to bring Master FM home for Christmas. Flight looks quite full and he is only silver, so feeling nervous.....

Hope you used credit card.

 

[Ansett]

Just booked a ridiculously expensive J flight to bring Master FM home for Christmas. Flight looks quite full and he is only silver, so feeling nervous.....

I would be confident that the above is not common and that the chances of being denied boarding would have to be low especially on a ridiculously expensive J ticket.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I would be confident that the above is not common and that the chances of being denied boarding would have to be low especially on a ridiculously expensive J ticket.

but that's not really the point is it? the airline has come back to tell us that no seat is guaranteed blah blah blah. great way to sell tickets.

i would think you are better off flying another carrier that is really interested in making things right when they go wrong. and if to or from Europe, fly an EU carrier!

friend of mine in the USA this morning was flying on a short regional flight (52 minutes) up to Detroit to connect to Tokyo. Aircraft substituted from 12F to 9F and they were downgraded to Y+. at the airport they were given a $500 voucher good for a year. for 52 minutes inconvenience on a regional jet.

what's the matter with Qantas offering such pathetic compensation and trying to hide behind their 'guidelines'?

 

[ogs70]

I would be confident that the above is not common and that the chances of being denied boarding would have to be low especially on a ridiculously expensive J ticket.

A quick glance at this thread will tell you paying a full-fare J class ticket can now be considered the same as placing a J upgrade request with points, with QF providing 3 hours notice whether you were successful or not at check-in -- maybe being a PS he might strike lucky if not too many WP1s, WPs or SGs?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A quick glance at this thread will tell you paying a full-fare J class ticket can now be considered the same as placing a J upgrade request with points, with QF providing 3 hours notice whether you were successful or not at check-in -- maybe being a PS he might strike lucky if not too many WP1s, WPs or SGs?

and exactly like the lottery request, you pay extra money which you don't get back if you're not successful.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Hope you used credit card.

used CC and booked at Qantas.com, so covering all bases. I should add that the flight is from lax, but I avoided Friday night...

 

[Pushka]

used CC and booked at Qantas.com, so covering all bases. I should add that the flight is from lax, but I avoided Friday night...

Make sure they use OCI, arrives early and I think you're done!

 

[RAM]

You don't give any detail on what the issue was however a frequent occurrence is medical staff giving patients a medical clearance form but neglecting to forward it to the airline so they can clear the pax ahead of time as being fit to fly.

If the pax turns up at the airport without the airline having given approval for uplift then there will be delays as the airline's medical team need liaise with the patient's treating doctor or specialist to ensure they're medically fit to undertake the journey.

There's a lot more work involved than you think particularly if the airline has to supply oxygen or if pax have to be assigned seats adjacent to a medical power point etc.

Tried to keep it brief.

Zurich had arranged it with Sydney Operations centre for our return journey, Innsbruck to Frankfurt to Sydney. First class efficiency from Universitätskliniken Innsbruck who logged all calls to Zurich and Qantas operations and gave me a copy should anything go wrong (what did they know). Had a fax from Qantas Operations saying OK to fly. All this made no difference to the Frankfurt staff.

No oxygen required just as little physical exertion as possible. Served out the few days convalescence, to be able to fly, at the Hotel Marie Thereise in Innsbruck.

Frankfurt ground staff argued that they were there and the Sydney Operations centre wasn't etc etc.

BTW I forgot to mention my wife was 7 weeks along (only discovered after 5 week work and holiday had begun). Still medically OK to fly. Pneumonia totally cleared up, even had x-rays with us for Dr back in Sydney.

 

[RAM]

A quick glance at this thread will tell you paying a full-fare J class ticket can now be considered the same as placing a J upgrade request with points, with QF providing 3 hours notice whether you were successful or not at check-in -- maybe being a PS he might strike lucky if not too many WP1s, WPs or SGs?

Actually you are in a much worse position than an upgrade attempt where you've lost nothing vs the thousands out of pocket in this example.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually you are in a much worse position than an upgrade attempt where you've lost nothing vs the thousands out of pocket in this example.

Not true! In order to join the upgrade lottery from economy you need to pay more to be in an eligible fare class. Sometimes this can be hundreds of dollars more.

 

[RAM]

Not true! In order to join the upgrade lottery from economy you need to pay more to be in an eligible fare class. Sometimes this can be hundreds of dollars more.

Well. In case A - upgrade lottery you bought the upgradeable ticket with the full knowledge you may miss out.

In case B - you decided to pay the full fare Business to be certain.

A - missing out costs you no more
B - getting downgraded costs you thousands.

Or at least that's how I look at it as a sunk cost. A bit like the upgrade auction for Air Asia X. Missed out by 1 day. Was first on queue for upgrade (booked as soon as flights opened) and as of morning of flight there were two seats available for sale. They sold.

 

[Pushka]

I'd rather lose out from the upgrade lottery than what has happened here, obviously.

 

[maninblack]

A full J fare on QF return Australia - Los Angeles is over $18,000