Downgraded from Business Class.

[Flying mermaid]

A full J fare on QF return Australia - Los Angeles is over $18,000

I paid close to $11,000 for lax-Mel return - it was a combination sales/saver fare - it kinda hurt as I usually manage to get good sales fares for myself and Mr FM, but the ankle biter only decided today to come home for Christmas......if he gets offloaded with that kind of money I will seriously spit the dummy......

 

[michaele]

All of a sudden the old adage "you get what you pay for" doesn't ring true!

Waiting for the "If you want to fly J, buy J" lines to be wheeled out

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well. In case A - upgrade lottery you bought the upgradeable ticket with the full knowledge you may miss out.

In case B - you decided to pay the full fare Business to be certain.

not really unfortunately.

'A' applies to any seat you buy with them. Qantas said you can pay full business class and you accept, before you fly, that a seat isn't guaranteed. And they have some guidelines, which they won't tell you at the time of booking, to calculate what they decide they will compensate you (with the exception of departures from the EU).

 

[OATEK]

Waiting for the "If you want to fly J, buy J" lines to be wheeled out

Do you mean "If you want to fly J, buy F"?

 

[JohnK]

Red Roo attends the social events organised by Qantas for AFF'ers. Sometimes a he. Sometimes a she.

And she recently attended AFF #8 in Melbourne.

 

[Pushka]

And she recently attended AFF #8 in Melbourne.

But he/she has been absent from this thread for a while.

 

[UP4014]

But he/she has been absent from this thread for a while.

They don't do apologies very well do they.

Was thinking of this with my customer service PR disaster hat on.

I think this thread would have died long ago had Red Roo simply put their hands up and said "you know what, we stuffed up and we are so sorry. We will refund one fare and although we admit to overbooking we will do our best not to put people in this situation again".

Those three lines above I think would have stopped it dead, but only maturity brings proper solutions with quality and service. It could have been turned into a PR win.

Matt

 

[CMA222]

They don't do apologies very well do they.

I think this thread would have died long ago had Red Roo simply put their hands up and said "you know what, we stuffed up and we are so sorry. We will refund one fare and although we admit to overbooking we will do our best not to put people in this situation again".

Those three lines above I think would have stopped it dead, but only maturity brings proper solutions with quality and service. It could have been turned into a PR win.

Matt

So true. with 41,398 views of the thread to date - it speaks for itself.

 

[grussellt]

You would think that QF should pay some attention to this thread (and rethink compensation for the "accidental overbooking)" now that it has reached 586 comments and about to hit 60 pages!

 

[jsoprano]

Do you mean "If you want to fly J, buy F"?

What EmilyP's parents experienced was a double-downgrade (J to Y, skipping W), so by that logic the rule would be: "If you want to fly W, book F".

 

[wrekker]

I have read all this thread with disappointment - arising from Qantas still failing to see and act upon the disastrous PR from such a long thread on their treatment of 'valued' frequent flyers.

Having been a long term Qantas Frequent Flyer over many years with the possibility of reaching lifetime gold, I am just wondering if it is now worth trying to achieve. This incident and the continual downgrading of FF benefits has been extremely disappointing. Now I am looking at other airlines that I would never have considered before.

For me, the most disappointing downgrading of FF benefits have been the discounting of Status Credits when flying with other One World Airlines on routes that Qantas has abandoned or did not fly. Makes it more difficult to achieve lifetime gold when using OneWorld RTW fares.

There does not seem to me much positive news about QANTAS rewarding loyalty in this and any other QFF forum, despite the spin doctors usually trying to suggest changes to the FF programs can be viewed as 'improvements'. Since I joined many years ago, there seems to be a continual whittling away of benefits as well as making them harder to achieve.

 

[QF1]

Funny, there was a time when QFF members would be rewarded with a free upgrade for being loyal. Now they reward you by dowgrading you and keep your money for free...must be the new trend within Qantas!!!

 

[Ansett]

Funny, there was a time when QFF members would be rewarded with a free upgrade for being loyal. Now they reward you by dowgrading you and keep your money for free...must be the new trend within Qantas!!!

Its the Simpler and Fairer Philosophy

 

[BD1959]

You would think that QF should pay some attention to this thread (and rethink compensation for the "accidental overbooking)" now that it has reached 586 comments and about to hit 60 pages!

No need.

QF Group is back in profit and all is well in the world, love Alan xx

Regards,

BD

 

[GalaxyNexus]

...
I think this thread would have died long ago had Red Roo simply put their hands up and said "you know what, we stuffed up and we are so sorry. We will refund one fare and although we admit to overbooking we will do our best not to put people in this situation again".
...
Matt

I guess they really want to save the whatever thousands dollars worth of compensation they can, brand goodwill be damned. Compensation shows up in the book, brand value doesn't. Simple and fair, really

 

[RAM]

You would think that QF should pay some attention to this thread (and rethink compensation for the "accidental overbooking)" now that it has reached 586 comments and about to hit 60 pages!

i do wish you would stop using the word "THINK".

Next someone will use the word 'consider' or 'considerate'.

Since when has real logic been a requirement for Q's actions?

 

[Austman]

They don't do apologies very well do they.

Was thinking of this with my customer service PR disaster hat on.

I think this thread would have died long ago had Red Roo simply put their hands up and said "you know what, we stuffed up and we are so sorry. We will refund one fare and although we admit to overbooking we will do our best not to put people in this situation again".

Those three lines above I think would have stopped it dead, but only maturity brings proper solutions with quality and service. It could have been turned into a PR win.

Matt

But Red Roo can't say "we stuffed up". Because they actually didn't. That's the problem!

Apart from the "rude" supervisor who walked away from a customer "who kicked up a stink at check in (but not too much as she didn't want to be thrown off the flight altogether )", (EmilyP's words), Qantas did more than what they say they will do.

No-one seems to have quoted the actual QF Customer Charter:

If there are insufficient seats in the class in which you booked, for example due to a change of aircraft, we will offer you the option to travel in a lower class or on the next available flight to your destination in the same class. If we cannot offer you suitable alternative arrangements, we will fully refund the fare for your affected flight.

And like it or lump it, that's the official policy and they are doing more than that.

Don't blame Red Roo. It's Qantas policy and customer charter that would need to change first.

Changing those might well have merit but I expect it's not going to happen just because of this incident.

 

[JohnK]

But he/she has been absent from this thread for a while.

There's nothing to report? No point her replying to all the speculation.

 

[Red Roo]

I appreciate your concerns, and by way of an update I can advise that our discussions with the customers are ongoing. However as would be the courtesy extended to any AFF member, I cannot share details due to privacy reasons.

As such, I can only explain our position while being comfortable in the knowledge that our team are liaising with the passengers directly regarding this uncommon set of circumstances.

I would also like to remind you that Red Roo offered proactive assistance within minutes of the OP posting, by which time the customers had already contacted Qantas via our Facebook page. Together with my regular AFF updates, a Customer Care Executive was able to investigate and contact the customers without the standard 15 working days to turn around or generic email reply.

The customers and their daughter, EmilyP have a direct contact number and email address of the Customer Care Executives responsible for managing their file. The discussions with the customer contradict the updates on the thread from EmilyP and BNEFlyer.

I was disappointed to read that we had been misrepresented, and comments from the conversation between Customer Care and EmilyP’s parents were taken out of context.

However to answer some of your questions (in no particular order) I can share:

We’ve immediately and personally apologised to the customers about the handling of this matter at Los Angeles, including the communication style regarding lounge access and compensation offered on the spot.

Our internal guidelines are beyond the minimum IATA requirements to allow individual, overall experiences to be considered by way of discretionary goodwill gestures.

The goodwill offered by Customer Care on this occasion was in addition to any fare differential offered by the agent, and the cash payment received at Los Angeles airport at the time.

Our yield management team is recognised as one of the best in the industry, however they don’t always get it right due to various operational reasons. A call out was made earlier in the day looking for volunteers to either downgrade or travel on the following day with the same offer of compensation.

However our team were unsuccessful in finding customers to reconsider their plans, and while not ideal, the last resort is to rely on no-shos and customer’s last to check in (including online check-in) to make the final decision.

I can assure you that there were no Qantas employees onloaded in Business or Premium Economy on QF16 LAX/BNE 16OCT, on either Duty or Leisure Travel categories.

For those suggesting that IATA regulations should not allow airlines to overbook flights, please note that fares would significantly increase to allow maximum flexibility across all airlines, in all fare buckets.

The refund via Flight Centre is following normal, documented procedure to be followed by all agents selling our products, but this process can take time. While we’re keen to maintain consistency, we have limited visibility over agent’s transactions.

Hope this helps to answer some of your concerns. Should you wish to discuss your personal travel arrangements, please don’t hesitate to send me a private message with your details as reference.

 

[UP4014]

But Red Roo can't say "we stuffed up". Because they actually didn't. That's the problem!

Don't blame Red Roo. It's Qantas policy and charter that would need to change.

I guess some wouldn't call taking the money and not providing what was paid is not a stuff up, but it would seem that view is in the minority.

There is no one posting here called "policy and charter", I didn't blame Red Roo personally but they are the designated poster on all things offical from QF. This is not a QF run forum, it is a forum for people to post opinion, experiences and views and sometimes they are not aligned with an airline media/PR department. (which is terrific)

Red Roo, and I do say this in a balanced way, comes here with a bias and with instruction on what can be said and what cannot be said. I think we all accept and take it as so. Unfortunately no business can do everything in a perfect manner as they employ humans like every other business and cough ups happen. However, everyone has choices, QF have choices and Red Roo has choices. In this case their choice has been not to admit to any wrong either morally or in not calling for volunteers or short changing on the refund.

Plenty of business do admit to problems, sometimes reluctantly and sometimes because they did indeed stuff up and take it on the chin and sort it out.

My own view on a 60 page thread; I think there is some weariness with QF telling us all about new beaut changes and how fair things will be in the new world then go to ground when they mess passengers around. Only ever wanting to tell the good story is setting themselves up for a fall instead of it being routine to admit problems and fix them. Do they see the AFF forum as another way of pushing the PR or do they join in here for the betterment of all passengers? (they would tell us for the passengers but that's not how it appears to look)

I am a strong supporter of QF and since the demise of Ansett have used QF exclusively since September 2001 unless they don't fly the route I need. I have felt disillusioned about my beloved QF since we started seeing Red Roo posts with the rose coloured glasses.

Thanks for reading and sorry to go on so long.

Matt