Downgraded from Business Class.

[amaroo]

Is it mere speculation or a wild guess that this thread will reach 1000 posts (with or without another mention of NDA)?

It's a lay down misere! Amazing thread ... for all the wrong reasons

 

[DC3]

There's a bit of a way to go yet, by the look of things. And what a pity that it's become so drawn out.




Edit: At the 1,001 post mark now, and over 69,000 views, for something that could have been resolved before post # 100

 

[Red Roo]

Red Roo, I appreciate your role on forums such as this, but nobody is disputing that my parents have been speaking to QF.

Unfortunately it is the tone and context of these discussions that is a let down.

Thanks EmilyP. I appreciate your frustration, and I'm sorry if there's been any misunderstanding along the way.

As anyone in the industry would attest to, there is a formal process involved in such situations with the intention of maintaining consistency, regardless of where the booking was made. However in the case of your parents, we're doing our best to expedite resolution, as I'm sure your agent is, in terms of the refund. Any subsequent goodwill has been already been discussed with them directly.

Please do keep in touch with my colleague looking after this matter should you or your parents have any outstanding questions or concerns.

 

[get me outta here]

We first heard about this on 17 Oct, 1 month ago today. The progress is glacial. I don't see why what has been referred to as a "process" needs to take so long, it is purely arbitrary.

If an item of similar value was purchased at a reputable retailer that turned out to be not fit for the purpose and needed to be returned by a very disappointed buyer, we would not be expecting to wait well over 4 weeks for some sort of what sounds like a highly compromised outcome thereby extending the pain and frustration of the good faith purchase.

 

[admin]

Just a reminder that no one on AFF (including our Industry Reps) is under any obligation to respond to posts made by other members. Contribution on AFF is entirely voluntary.

Well released does necessarily = notified. What exactly does agent mean?

Flightcentre may not find out until it receives its monthly statement after all. Two weeks ago was November 3. I'm sorry but having experienced spin from the best I have discovered 'never assume' to be the most important approach. Also, released to who in FlightCentre? The head office, regional office, office of sale? Details make a big difference and many on this thread want to believe Q has/will do the right thing and time and time again that hope has proven misplaced (such as the reason for silence).



Well I am waiting on my question to RED ROO "RED ROO - can you please clarify what exact Q policy is and perhaps provide an explanation as to why it is that duration?"

earlier in this thread and await the answer eagerly. The policy relates to how long for a refund.



Q Spin Dept would have been well pleased at EmilyP's silence. Ask yourself if EmilyP had kept posting - "Nothing from Q today" day after day etc how some would have interpreted it?

If Q or the social media representatives RED ROO were not into spin then they surely would have posted, without any risk of privacy issues, resolution pending. That they did not and waited until EmilyP said 'no change' really says it all about the 'Customer consideration' from Q, or lack thereof.

Perhaps they were relieved that many were interpreting silence as a positive outcome.



If this happened two weeks ago then why was 'This process was explained to your parents earlier today'? and not two weeks ago?

This looks like yet another attempt to shift the focus on the continuing failings from Q (like the implied digs at the travellers earlier in this thread by Red Roo) - 'disappointed' 'misrepresented' etc. I may be harsh but the hole is nearly through to London IMHO.

It really riles me - two weeks ago vs today. In my book yet another serious break-down in Q customer repair. Why this two week delay in conveying what is ostensibly good news? Is it even true? Who knows, one thing is for sure FlightCentre are unlikely to point the finger at Q are they?



Yet again, a convoluted "Get lost, we're not going to give you anything you can hold us to in future." It was a perfectly reasonable request as this is not an isolated incident and travellers want to know what contract variations Q has up its sleeve. The terms "harsh and unconscionable" come to mind.

Then as a distraction - toss in unquantified 'leave to the imagination to expand' the goodwill.

How many hours have been taken up for the two parents gathering documents, going in to see TC, ringing Q on the phone etc etc. Let alone the aggravation, shock and disappointment. Then to be denigrated by Red Roo - 'misrepresenting' unbelievable. Red Roo can claim privacy on one hand yet accuse with no substantiation on the other.

It would have to be a 4 figure or more sum to represent "goodwill" after this disgraceful treatment. All of us know it will not be.



Hope springs eternal but Q's track record suggests otherwise unfortunately. Being accused of misrepresentation is definitely not what I would call a wonderful result.



How do you resolve the 'released two weeks ago' with told 'earlier today'? Also exactly who is the agent? is it even a level above FC and below Q, perhaps Q wholesale even?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... by refusing to publish their own internal policies on the Internet?

It can't be a purely internal policy if they are attempting to rely on it under the ticketing terms and conditions.

As they are attempting to make it part of the contract, there should be transparency, and nothing to prevent it being public. Which is why I've asked if Red Roo can go to the relevant department to get a quick outline of how refunds are determined.

Imagine if Qantas said as part of its tickets 'these fares are refundable', or 'you can change flights' or 'you can book through our call centre', but only disclosed fees and charges (or the final amount of any refund) when they hit your credit card account. That is in essence what is happening with a refund policy that is not disclosed anywhere on the website.

Another thing to consider is this. Have a look at Qantas' policy on flights where there are insufficient seats in the class of travel booked (my bolding):

If there are insufficient seats in the class in which you booked, for example due to a change of aircraft, we will offer you the option to travel in a lower class or on the next available flight to your destination in the same class. If we cannot offer you suitable alternative arrangements, we will fully refund the fare for your affected flight.

Now under that policy, the OP's parents could have said 'sorry, there are no acceptable alternatives' and they would have been fully refunded their fare for the affected flight, ie $3500.

They then could have bought a walk up fare for $1100 (based on today's full one-way only fare with Qantas from LAX-SYD), and had a net gain in their pockets of $2500.

So how can the passenger possibly get less than that under any internal guidelines?

 

[fersea]

Let's hope that there is a satisfactory resolution next Monday and EmilyP's parents can live out their few remaining days with this behind them.

it does seem strange that if the refund has been processed to flight centre that no one knows how much it is. Surely someone knows otherwise how could it have been processed.

 

[Reggie]

Shhh, we have had seven days of peace.

I like poking sticks into the beehive!

Actually I just wanted to know the outcome for future reference. Many years ago my wife of the time and I were downgraded at the gate in SYD for a PER flight. No notice in lounge or anything, just a beep and the boarding agent says oh here's you new boarding pass, no mention of the downgrade, ........ But that stories elsewhere on this board.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Let's hope that there is a satisfactory resolution next Monday and EmilyP's parents can live out their few remaining days with this behind .

They may have more than a "few remaining days" :!:

 

[opusman]

They may have more than a "few remaining days" :!:

Flying in Y can take years off your life

 

[Princess Fiona]

Flying in Y can take years off your life

You win the Internet :mrgreen:

 

[JohnK]

Indeed. It's comforting to speculate they finally received some decent treatment and adequate compensation for the rubbish dealt out by QF staff.

Not quite.

This sad debacle continues.

 

[QF WP]

Why do you highlight part of your posts in red capital letters?

Is it because you are "really riled" at the "harsh and unconscionable" treatment QF are subjecting us to by refusing to publish their own internal policies on the Internet? Or is it merely to highlight the important parts?

I took it as being the use of red - both in Red Roo's name as well as QF's corporate colour. But that's just my conjecture - like others here that are reading things in Red Roo's comment that may or may not be there

 

[Princess Fiona]

It can't be a purely internal policy if they are attempting to rely on it under the ticketing terms and conditions.

As they are attempting to make it part of the contract, there should be transparency, and nothing to prevent it being public. Which is why I've asked if Red Roo can go to the relevant department to get a quick outline of how refunds are determined.

Imagine if Qantas said as part of its tickets 'these fares are refundable', or 'you can change flights' or 'you can book through our call centre', but only disclosed fees and charges (or the final amount of any refund) when they hit your credit card account. That is in essence what is happening with a refund policy that is not disclosed anywhere on the website.

Another thing to consider is this. Have a look at Qantas' policy on flights where there are insufficient seats in the class of travel booked (my bolding):



Now under that policy, the OP's parents could have said 'sorry, there are no acceptable alternatives' and they would have been fully refunded their fare for the affected flight, ie $3500.

They then could have bought a walk up fare for $1100 (based on today's full one-way only fare with Qantas from LAX-SYD), and had a net gain in their pockets of $2500.

So how can the passenger possibly get less than that under any internal guidelines?

In case anyone's missed it here's the link to the refund table for TA issued tickets where there has been an involuntary downgrade. The QF Industry website is easy to find via an Internet search.

http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/FareRefundTableEff111213.pdf

 

[pagingjoan]

In case anyone's missed it here's the link to the refund table for TA issued tickets where there has been an involuntary downgrade. The QF Industry website is easy to find via an Internet search.

http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/FareRefundTableEff111213.pdf

Hmmm.
Makes it even more curious as to why it would take so long to sort this out for EmilyP's parents?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In case anyone's missed it here's the link to the refund table for TA issued tickets where there has been an involuntary downgrade. The QF Industry website is easy to find via an Internet search.

http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/FareRefundTableEff111213.pdf

It is not a relevant document in terms of the contract or conditions of carriage between the passenger and the airline.

If Qantas wanted this to be part of the contract, they'd put it in the fare conditions. If seeking to rely on it at a later date, they could have a copy at all check-in counters to be handed to the passenger before they have to make the decision on whether to travel in a lower class, or fly in the ticketed cabin the next day.

 

[Princess Fiona]

It is not a relevant document in terms of the contract or conditions of carriage between the passenger and the airline.

If Qantas wanted this to be part of the contract, they'd put it in the fare conditions. If seeking to rely on it at a later date, they could have a copy at all check-in counters to be handed to the passenger before they have to make the decision on whether to travel in a lower class, or fly in the ticketed cabin the next day.

I'm no guru in legal or consumer affairs but surely it is a very relevant document between the TA (in this case Flight Centre) and Qantas ?

 

[Quickstatus]

In case anyone's missed it here's the link to the refund table for TA issued tickets where there has been an involuntary downgrade. The QF Industry website is easy to find via an Internet search.

http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/FareRefundTableEff111213.pdf

hmm, in an invol downgrade from bus to econ the downgrade is to fare bucket B not Y.
Seems a bit more reasonable at first but B is not much different to Y. F downgrade to J should really be to I

While it may be "easily" found via Google search the vast majority of QF customers would not know of it's existence and really QF cannot then legally rely on it as an agreed TC because it's not made explicit in the purchase agreement and in the general TC as found on the website.

Nevertheless the point remains that in situations such as these the customer should be properly made whole both in a moral and legal sense. The company already benefits from their policy of overbooking and should at least make sure the pax is made whole

 

[amaroo]

Not quite.

This sad debacle continues.

[video=youtube;OHVjs4aobqs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHVjs4aobqs[/video]

...........

 

[Quickstatus]

I'm no guru in legal or consumer affairs but surely it is a very relevant document between the TA (in this case Flight Centre) and Qantas ?

It may be relevant but that's between QF and TA. It was not disclosed to the customer. Hidden rules, and TC are never viewed favourably by any court especially if it benefits the actors who made those conditions.

Just like a doctor who operates on a patient's eye. It's written in medical textbooks that a rare complication can blind the patient. The doctor does not warn the patient who goes blind. The court decided in favour of the patient because the patient was not warned. The patient could have looked at the medical texts to research for themselves but didn't- she relied on the doctors assurances. Multimillion payout.