Downgraded from Business Class.

[JohnK]

Refunds take time. I think people ought to be patient. The longer this has dragged on (on here) the less sympathy I have for the affected pax. I think it's time to close this off and move on.

How long do you think refunds should take? 3 montgs? 6 months? The company had no issue taking the money but struggle to give it back? Not goid enough in today's day and age.

But greed is allowed to be in control.

I'm struggling with the angle here for mainstream appeal in Rooty Hill but I'm sure Ben Sandilands would run with it if someone points him in this direction

Paid an airline for a service they did not receive.

Not only were they downgraded but the airline wanted more money as fully flexible economy is more expensive than business class.

Not quite but you know what I mean.

Qantas, or any other airline, should not be allowed to profit form overselling flights. Overselling is put in place as an insurance policy but it's rude to try and claim over and over.

 

[Baysider]

It really seems to me that the pax would have been far better off with a credit card chargeback. They would have had a full refund (due to purchased service, RETURN business class seats, not provided) and QF would be left to negotiate with the card provider to keep some $.

 

[Austman]

Add in that I posted a request for Red Roo - asking for the policy to be sent to me (as the Q page says you can request a copy yo be provided to you) and Red Roo has not done so nor responded in anyway.

But isn't it published?

If there are insufficient seats in the class in which you booked, for example due to a change of aircraft, we will offer you the option to travel in a lower class or on the next available flight to your destination in the same class. If we cannot offer you suitable alternative arrangements, we will fully refund the fare for your affected flight.

Fare refund calculations is another matter! And affects passengers in other situations too.

 

[Baysider]

But isn't it published?

"If we cannot offer you suitable alternative arrangements, we will fully refund the fare for your affected flight."

The pax obviously didn't consider Y to be a suitable alternative arrangement to J, but QF has evidently disagreed and deemed that a full refund was not warranted !

 

[Austman]

The pax obviously didn't consider Y to be a suitable alternative arrangement to J, but QF has evidently disagreed and deemed that a full refund was not warranted !

Then the pax's option was to take the "full refund" and not fly at all on that ticket.

 

[medhead]

That is unfortunate as you don't seem to have read about the fine for not telling passengers their legal rights. A $90,000 fine of which $45,000 was suspended for 12 months on the condition that Q fully inform passengers of their rights. A point you yourself made and I totally agree with.

The other US DoT fines just point to a pattern of behaviour that the Q board continues to reign over.

Massive assumption on your part. If you read my post very carefully you will see that I only commented about freight price fixed links that were provided. I made no comment at all about other fines. As such there seems to be no basis for you to draw a conclusion about what I may or may not have read.

Freight price fixing only shows a pattern in relation to freight. Unless you're claiming that all of the other airlines that engaged in freight price fixing also fail to inform passengers about DOT denied boarding rights?

 

[amaroo]

Posts in this thread have been highly reported and a lot of Mods time has been spent looking at whether comments have breached the T&C's. thankfully, few posts have actually been changed - amazing considering the level of fervour shown by some.


It's probably getting closer to that point where, as Princess Fiona commented, there is no futher news and only a rehash of the same arguments and clash of personalities. Those are the times where, in the absence of any further news, there is little benefit to leave threads open. For a closed thread, it can be re-opened by Mods or admin where contacted by the parties directly impacted by the issue (EmilyP on behalf of her parents, or Red Roo on behalf of QF).

My limited understanding of the relationship between airline, travel agent, consolidator and passenger doesn't allow me to comment further on just where certain contractural obligations lie. Thank you for the insight ozbeachbabe. We'd all love to know the inner workings of the entire refund process, however Privacy Act provisions deny Red Roo from being able to comment fully to us, in this (or any) particular case (as we do not have the rights).

We have to take people at their word until it can be proven otherwise. Some are quick to judge without full knowledge of facts - a failing of humanity and due process.

Plenty of gas still in the tank for this baby... haven't even reached the top of the climb.

One of the best things about AFF - everyone has the ability to close a thread down

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, I thought that too, but then someone said that they'd had half of the 'goods' delivered so maybe no go. Some clarification would be good on chargebacks.

It really seems to me that the pax would have been far better off with a credit card chargeback. They would have had a full refund (due to purchased service, RETURN business class seats, not provided) and QF would be left to negotiate with the card provider to keep some $.

 

[amaroo]

It really seems to me that the pax would have been far better off with a credit card chargeback. They would have had a full refund (due to purchased service, RETURN business class seats, not provided) and QF would be left to negotiate with the card provider to keep some $.

Not a bad idea. Do they cancel/replace the card if you dispute a transaction? If so, better to have a card especially reserved for the likes of QF.... that way you avoid the PITA process of rejigging direct debits etc.

 

[nlagalle]

Airline sells your original seat to someone else and then charges you extra to give you a new seat in a lower class on the same flight? That's sounds like a fairly good consumer perspective. And pretty much what happens if we believe the refund table. (the 'extra' being the full economy fare compared to the cheapest economy fare you would have bought had you indented to fly economy at the outset)

As i said, there are much bigger headlines around at the moment for the media to worry about.. this is small fry, and they aren't grinding the QF axe atm..

 

[Baysider]

Not a bad idea. Do they cancel/replace the card if you dispute a transaction? If so, better to have a card especially reserved for the likes of QF.... that way you avoid the PITA process of rejigging direct debits etc.

No, they don't replace the card unless its a clearly fraudulent transaction.

 

[nlagalle]

It really seems to me that the pax would have been far better off with a credit card chargeback. They would have had a full refund (due to purchased service, RETURN business class seats, not provided) and QF would be left to negotiate with the card provider to keep some $.

Credit card company wouldn't have done a chargeback as they had already travelled so really they could not receive a full refund, which is what a chargeback does. Don't forget that does not happend automatically and it isn't guaranteed it will be in your favour either.

 

[Baysider]

Credit card company wouldn't have done a chargeback as they had already travelled so really they could not receive a full refund, which is what a chargeback does. Don't forget that does not happend automatically and it isn't guaranteed it will be in your favour either.

Comes down to definitions of 'service not provided' since they paid for RETURN J seats and did not receive that service.

 

[nlagalle]

Comes down to definitions of 'service not provided' since they paid for RETURN J seats and did not receive that service.

If the service wasn't provided they never would have left the country. The fact the airline T&C's have provisions for downgrades means no CC company would process a chargeback - oh and some now will charge you a fee if your chargeback is unsuccessful, which is how this one would end up. anyway the charge may have come from FC not Qantas so there is even less chance of it succeeding!

 

[RAM]

But isn't it published?

No and this is what REALLY makes this whole drama so smelly IMHO. Try doing a google search using the exact words on the Q web page and it reveals.....

Only the Q web page saying you can ask for it. Why is it not made public as it potentially impacts on every sale made by Q?

Is it because it is son onerous, one-sided and unconscionable that if published and freely available the regulator would have been forced to intervene? Who knows becase Red Roo has not provided it despite my request. However when I posted the request, Red Roo was shown as a member currently viewing the thread (ICYDK - look at bottom of page by scrolling down).

As I type there are:
There are currently 24 users browsing this thread. (15 members and 9 guests)

• RAM,
• Salon66,
• vetrade,
• Quickstatus,
• Baysider,
• Happy Trails,
• Austman,
• Danger,
• The Rok,
• Rastus,
• mikel,
• Major,
• QF WP,
• Cruiser Elite

And yes I have noted when Red Roo subsequently has been viewing but not posting when I've mentioned my request (2 of the 4 times btw).

Fare refund calculations is another matter! And affects passengers in other situations too.

 

[RAM]

If the service wasn't provided they never would have left the country. The fact the airline T&C's have provisions for downgrades means no CC company would process a chargeback - oh and some now will charge you a fee if your chargeback is unsuccessful, which is how this one would end up. anyway the charge may have come from FC not Qantas so there is even less chance of it succeeding!

If in the UK then the consumer legislation guarantees satisfaction or the CC company has to refund you out of their own pocket. Q did not provide the service paid for on the CC but substituted a undeniably, and acknowledged by Red Roo, inferior service.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

The TA has had no role in the decision to downgrade, therefore I see no logical reason why the industry practice is for the airline to issue compensation back via the TA.

Why can't an airline simply issue a refund direct to the customer. If any Agent fees need to be refunded, just portion that off and the rest goes to the customer.

It's complicated but the customer entered into the purchase contract with the TA, not QF. legally I don't think they can bypass them.

 

[medhead]

It's complicated but the customer entered into the purchase contract with the TA, not QF. legally I don't think they can bypass them.

Thought this was covered up thread. The customer entered into an agreement with Qantas via their authorised agent, the TA.

 

[Austman]

No and this is what REALLY makes this whole drama so smelly IMHO. Try doing a google search using the exact words on the Q web page and it reveals.....

"Passenger Charter" finds it - and then a short read.

Finding the "Full Refund" policy is quite another matter.

 

[QF WP]

From experience together with what scant info Red Roo has posted such as:

$$ saying that the info posted by the two flyers' relative was misleading
$$ 'paid agent two weeks ago' BUT 'told couple this morning'

So, Red Roo is disclosing general factual information about the situation without breaching the Privacy Act provisions. Facts, that unless proven otherwise are sacrosanct...

Knowing full well that normal wholesaler billing/processing cycle is monthly smacks of DELIBERATE attempt by Red Roo to mislead and deceive on this thread.

What makes you the expert in exactly what has happened between QF, Flight Centre, any other parties [consolidators] and the passengers. Do you work for one of them and have actual knowledge of the transactions?

Add in that I posted a request on November 18 for Red Roo - asking for the policy to be sent to me (as the Q page says you can request a copy yo be provided to you) and Red Roo has not done so nor responded in anyway.

Requests need to be sent through official channels, as disclosed on any number of pages of the QF website (telephone, email via the "contact us" link etc). This Forum is hardly a formal channel. Or, as others have done, Google