Downgraded from Business Class.

[EmilyP]

While I'm glad to hear that our crew did all possible to look after Mr and Mrs EmilyP onboard, the way in which this situation was managed and communicated has been followed up internally and with the customers directly.

Further to EmilyP’s update below, our Customer Care team have since contacted her parents to personally discuss the circumstances, and have offered them a gesture of goodwill over and above our guidelines in recognition of the downgrade and overall unhappy experience.

As some have pointed out, overbooking flights is not exclusive to Qantas. Operational changes such as aircraft types and rolling delays can also play a part in such situations. Our estimates for cancellations and ‘no shows’ are occasionally lower than expected, which is what happened on this occasion. I fully appreciate that we’ve let Mr and Mrs EmilyP down, especially in the way this situation was handled.

For your reference, Mr and Mrs EmilyP were offered alternatives, including the option to overnight at our expense in LAX with confirmed Business seats on QF16 the next day. As this was not an option for them, the ground team confirmed the only available seats.

We hope this remains a one off for Mr and Mrs EmilyP, and hope that Flight Centre are supportive in actioning the refund as per standard procedure. Our Customer Care team will continue to be available to the customers should they wish to follow up.

Hi Red Roo,

Thanks for your response.

Unfortunately the 'gesture of goodwill' statement in itself is a bit insulting. QF should have provided what my parents paid for.

I think QF's definition of what they consider 'over and above' is seriously out of touch with what most people think is adequate.

I already advised readers of this thread that my parents were offered overnight accommodation and a flight the next day. If you had also read my reply you will see why this was not an option for my parents unfortunately.

Could you also advise why:

* My parents were not asked to downgrade, but told? This seems in direct conflict with your 'procedures'. QF loves their procedures when it suits them, but don't seem too concerned with following them when required.

As previously stated on this thread, I'm aware that this situation happens only occasionally. Unfortunately though it DID happen and the entire situation was handled (and continues to be handled) appallingly.

Qantas have been so dismissive over this whole thing. I just cannot believe they would treat customers this way. Especially loyal customers.

I'm going to step away from the computer now, because your response has made me mad. It seems QF are more interested in stating why they were right in this situation.

Oh and FYI - my parents have yet to receive a FULL and HONEST explanation from Customer Care as to what exactly happened.

Mum is at Flight Centre at the moment. Will update when something happens.


Have a great day

Emily

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well done, that is an entirely appropriate response.

But unfortunately the QF response does not match what the passenger has reported.

The passengers say they are not happy with the offer. Nor have their initial discussions with Flight Centre been encouraging.

EmilyP reports: (my bolding)

* Phone call didn't start off well. She was asked initially "Did you want to leave some feedback?". No, she wanted to lodge an official complaint and try and get some answers/resolution.

* She was advised (exact quote) "Even though Qantas confirms your ticket, as per our terms and conditions you are not guaranteed a seat on an aircraft". While this may be the case, it's not something that should be said to try and placate a customer who is becoming increasingly annoyed with not being given a reasonable resolution.

* Mum was advised that she would need to go to Flight Centre (who she booked the flights with) to apply for the fare difference. This was not something that QF could do. Mum has since called Flight Centre who have no knowledge of this process.

* The 'compensation' offered to my parents was, in their opinion, not good enough. This included some QFF points and a voucher for a future flight. After being loyal to QF for many years, at this stage even the offer of a 'free' flight is not enough to get them back onto a QF aircraft. My parents are still considering their options regarding acceptance of the compensation.

Did Qantas offer to contact Flight Centre and sort this out? To ensure the passenger wouldn't be further inconvenienced?

Does an airline really need to point out to passengers they aren't guaranteed a seat?

We do not however know the details of the 'free flight'. I would have suggested the 'free flight' should be in the region of a business class fare to the USA if the pax were willing to forego other compensation.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I deleted my initial response pending developments.

 

[BNEFlyer]

When I was flying home from Dubai last year, it was all the people booked through Flight Centre that were waiting to see if they had a seat on QF10...

That's an interesting observation. I understand that QF (or any airline) would probably want customers to book directly with them, but is it such a big issue that they'd categorise those customer differently to direct customers?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

EmilyP, could you share with us what Qantas has offered your parents?

Further to EmilyP’s update below, our Customer Care team have since contacted her parents to personally discuss the circumstances, and have offered them a gesture of goodwill over and above our guidelines in recognition of the downgrade and overall unhappy experience.

That's an interesting observation. I understand that QF (or any airline) would probably want customers to book directly with them, but is it such a big issue that they'd categorise those customer differently to direct customers?

Most hotels won't recognise your status or give any points if you don't book directly through them.

 

[Pushka]

I think most of us here consider the only true measure of compensation is a significant refund of the difference between the fare they paid, and a reasonably discounted economy fare. Plus a sincere apology and explanation.

I can understand your mother being distressed during the flight. She certainly did not experience BC either with all the angst.

Do the comments by the cabin crew mean that the passenger manifest was incorrect?

I can also see that Red Roo's comment has inflamed the situation.

 

[EmilyP]

Hi All,

In answer to some questions

Did Qantas offer to contact Flight Centre and sort this out? To ensure the passenger wouldn't be further inconvenienced? No, they were told they would have to sort this out with FC themselves.

Does an airline really need to point out to passengers they aren't guaranteed a seat? When they are determined to prove they did nothing wrong, apparently yes.

We do not however know the details of the 'free flight'. I would have suggested the 'free flight' should be in the region of a business class fare to the USA if the pax were willing to forego other compensation.

The 'free flight' was in the form of a $500 QF voucher.

Compensation offered was:

-50,000 FF points
-$500 QF voucher

They will also be given the difference in fare for my father's seat (which I do not see as compensation at all, as he should be entitled to this seeing as he paid Business and got Economy).

I may be way off base here, but I do not see this as adequate compensation. Happy for your thoughts, I understand others may not agree.

In any case it has definitely been an experience

Just really disappointed, as I have always sung QF's praises (which BNEFlyer can attest to, much to his chagrin lol)

Emily

 

[trippin_the_rift]

EmilyP what do you think an appropriate response and compensation should be?

 

[EmilyP]

EmilyP what do you think an appropriate response and compensation should be?

1. An explanation as to why they were originally on the passenger manifesto as BC and were then bumped.

2. A sincere apology without any of the 'but as per our T&C's, etc'. Just an apology plain and simple. 'We let you down and we shouldn't have. What can we do to make this right?"

3. A refund of the difference between my Mother's BC fare and an economy fare (because in her mind she may as well have been in an economy seat)

I believe in addition to 50k points offer, my father should be given the FF points and status credits that my Dad should have earned from his Business, not from Economy. However these points may be useless as they may not want to fly QF again.

On the voucher issue, again an implication that they would want to fly QF again.


I can appreciate that QF have at least offered something to my parents. There are many companies out there that would not offer anything at all.

I think what has happened here is that QF have damaged the relationship with my parents and I'm not sure it can be repaired??

 

[wandering_fred]

For once my having PER as an Australian base airport seems to be an advantage.

Last year as a result of the changes in AA's program, I elected to gain status with other OW partners for the first time. QF Gold (though Silver many years ago) and CX Silver. I would at this time say that CX Silver has a definite edge over AA/QF OW sapphire status when flying CX. And for all the apparent complaints I have heard about CX PEY (both service levels and profitability for CX) the cabin does seem to be overflowing - even on PER-HKG. But more on that later and elsewhere.

In the case of the OP's situation, there are US Dept of Transportation rules that need to have been followed also. And there are penalties assessed against airlines that do not follow the rules. Though that perhaps does help the passengers who are affected, until much after the fact.

Hoping that all ends well and maybe with a new travel agency in BNE for the pax and some procedural changes in QF/USA.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Rumour:[Denied by RR] Qantas to ban JQ SYD-MEL pax from F lounges & send to J lou

The 'free flight' was in the form of a $500 QF voucher.

Compensation offered was:

-50,000 FF points
-$500 QF voucher

They will also be given the difference in fare for my father's seat (which I do not see as compensation at all, as he should be entitled to this seeing as he paid Business and got Economy).

I may be way off base here, but I do not see this as adequate compensation. Happy for your thoughts, I understand others may not agree.

In any case it has definitely been an experience

Just really disappointed, as I have always sung QF's praises (which BNEFlyer can attest to, much to his chagrin lol)

Emily

There are a couple of different elements here.

at the basic level, the passenger should be offered the difference between the fare they paid, and the lowest economy fare at time of purchase. If they are offering less than this (the supposed $1250), that should not be acceptable. Along with the full fare difference, a small token by way of apology (some FF points or flight voucher)

Do we have the final amount calculated by Flight Centre yet?

the other element focusses on building rapport again. Rather than just offering the basics, should they offer something more substantial? for example a free return business class ticket?

i think in fairness, it is either one or the other. Either the full fare difference + a small token of goodwill OR something much larger such as a free ticket (or 200,000k FF points or whatever), but not both.

The he basic premis for either of the two options is that while qantas can (like other airlines) overbook, and sometimes they get it wrong, they should not, under any circumstances, profit financially out of the transaction.

they have sold the same seat twice, any profit they make should go to the affected passenger. (recognising the 'profit' may be something intangible... let's say the parents were bumped by someone paying the same fare, but the other person was a platinum. the platinum walks away thinking how fantastic QF is, and how they will keep their business with them. That is a profit of sorts to QF).

 

[Princess Fiona]

Personally I think what's being offered would be acceptable to me in the event of not accepting a seat on the next available flight with Business Class.

 

[vetrade]

And let's not forget the growing number of hours that EmilyP and her parents are spending on getting this sorted when they did zilch to cause the problem in the first place. :evil:

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Personally I think what's being offered would be acceptable to me in the event of not accepting a seat on the next available flight with Business Class.

When we next fly together I'll have my $500 waiting for you to trade seats ;-)

 

[EmilyP]

Hi All,

My Dad just had a call from Qantas Customer Care. He was advised that their final offer is:

* A $500 Qantas flight voucher that is valid for only 12 months
* 50,000 FF points
* The FF points he would have earned on Business rather than Economy
* The difference in fare between Business and Economy HOWEVER he was advised (exact quote) "It will not be as much as you expect"

Mum went to Flight Centre today. Flight Centre were helpful, however did allude that the fare difference will be not a true fare difference.

They are upset. They want the full fare difference between economy & business, not their convoluted fare difference methodology.

Mum also reiterated that the FF points and voucher are only of value if the fly Qantas again........

And Customer Care again told Dad 'Our terms and conditions state you are not guaranteed a seat on any flight'.

So now we wait to see what this 'fare difference' will be.......

If it is not the full fare difference my parents will be seeking alternative options to get this sorted to their satisfaction.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Kangol]

EmilyP, are your parents considering a credit card chargeback in the event that a reasonable outcome is not achieved?
I am guessing they used a cc to pay for the ticket...

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Personally I think what's being offered would be acceptable to me in the event of not accepting a seat on the next available flight with Business Class.

Provided the fare difference offered is the difference between the business class fare actually paid and the cheapest economy fare available on the date of purchase - or something similar - then I tend to agree.

To me, provided Qantas pays this basic level of compensation in cash, it seems fair enough for any additional compensation over and above that to be in the form of vouchers or points.
After all, part of their motivation in offering it is to try to restore some good will and retain your business.

Also while I understand that your mother was still unhappy even though she was seated in business class, I think that calls for additional compensation such as vouchers or points, not a refund of the fare difference.

However, Qantas should be generous with vouchers and points, given that their cost is significantly less than their face value.
Or perhaps they could give the points with some sort of guarantee of seat availability for redemption.

 

[EmilyP]

In answer to some previous questions, and in light of this last conversation my Dad had with Customer 'Care':

at the basic level, the passenger should be offered the difference between the fare they paid, and the lowest economy fare at time of purchase. If they are offering less than this (the supposed $1250), that should not be acceptable. Along with the full fare difference, a small token by way of apology (some FF points or flight voucher) They have been advised by QF they will not be receiving the full fare difference

Do we have the final amount calculated by Flight Centre yet? Not yet, but they were told by Flight Centre they will be shocked at how little it would be

the other element focusses on building rapport again. Rather than just offering the basics, should they offer something more substantial? for example a free return business class ticket? I seriously doubt that will happen

i think in fairness, it is either one or the other. Either the full fare difference + a small token of goodwill OR something much larger such as a free ticket (or 200,000k FF points or whatever), but not both. Agree with this 100%.

 

[EmilyP]

EmilyP, are your parents considering a credit card chargeback in the event that a reasonable outcome is not achieved?
I am guessing they used a cc to pay for the ticket...

They did, but not sure if the Bank will come to the party on this. As they have been told by QF many times - 'When you book a flight with us you are not guaranteed a seat. It's in our T&C's that you agreed to when paying for the flights"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Contact consumer affairs before accepting any offer.

Clearly ask for any time limitations you have in claiming the fare difference, and then discuss with consumer affairs.

If Flight Centre have said the refund is not as much as you would expect, this sounds like the $1250 they will offer.

That is completely unacceptable. How can you take $3750 off someone for a $700 seat and pocket the difference?

If QF wants to get technical, the one way journey was JFK-LAX-BNE. This is a total of 9636 miles, for a fare of $3750. As the JFK-LAX had already been flown, that leaves the portion of the ticket as LAX-BNE, or 7161 miles out of the total 9636. This equates to 74% of the fare, or $2786. Less the $700 for a cheap economy seat = minimum refund of $2086.)