Downgraded from Business Class.

[EmilyP]

Sorry for the delayed reply everyone. My friend's parents are now home, one managed to get a J seat as there was a no-show and the other was in Y. The situation was explained to the flight crew who were apparently appalled at what had happened.

The CSM checked their travel docs to see if they were actually booked into a lower class and she confirmed that they both definitely had Business tickets. The CSM said that the flight was oversold in J, but as they were on paid tickets (not award) and they are both Gold FF there were other pax that should have been downgraded before them. The CSM has lodged an in-house complaint on their behalf and keep them updated. The crew did mention that other pax had been downgraded and offered compensation as well.

QF did get back to my friends mother on FB about her own complaint but the response was 'sorry for the inconvenience, your complaint has been lodged and we'll reply in 15 business days'.

My friends parents are seasoned travellers (self funded, personal travel) and have taken 3 return BNE-US J class flights in the past 12 months. They always go back to QF no matter the cost, but this has cast a shadow on their love for QF. While they may not be the most valuable customers to Qantas, it's interesting to see how they treat Gold FF's and Business Class pax in the event of an oversold flight.

To be fair to QF, my friends mother said that the cabin crew were brilliant. Very apologetic and shocked that they, and a few other J pax had been downgraded. She also said that the QF ground crew in LAX could not have been more disinterested in what was happening and tried nothing to reaccommodate the pax. Their advice was to 'go and enjoy the lounge'.

Hi All,

Daughter of pax here again.

Thanks BNEFlyer for updating for me today, has been a bit of a hectic weekend!

My parents are very glad to be home and see kids, grandkids, dog, etc.

BNEFlyer got the update details 100% correct.

They were told at check in their seats had been sold to someone else and they were being downgraded to economy with a 'restitution' of USD$700 each. This was unacceptable to my Mum, who kicked up a stink at check in (but not too much as she didn't want to be thrown off the flight altogether ).

In favour of QF:

* They did offer to book them on Business on the next days flight. Unfortunately my Father had specialist appointments in Brisbane booked for Monday so this was not an option. Plus the fact that they just wanted to get home on the flight and seats they paid for.

* The cabin crew were amazing and were the only QF staff to show any sort of customer service and empathy to the situation. As previously stated none of the crew could understand why they were downgraded.

* Mum was given a Business Class seat at the last minute due to a no-show, but only because she was fairly tenacious in trying to figure out the situation

* QF FB staff responded to Mum's FB message straight away, however was only the standard 'we will get back to you in 15 days'. Not exactly helpful at the time.

Now on to QF downfalls in this situation:

* QF LAX staff were appalling in their treatment of my parents and need a severe crash course in customer service. I need to point out that although Mum and Dad were upset, not once did they raise voices or speak harshly to any staff. That isn't really their style at all. At one point in the conversation the Supervisor that was talking to them simply turned around and walked away mid-conversation.

* Staff told them they could 'try and get them into the Qantas Club'. Highly amusing seeing as they are entitled to get into QC in any case seeing as they paid $15,000 for flights. QC in LAX is less than stellar in any case, so no real consolation.

* When faced with the hard questions i.e. 'Why were our seats given to someone else?', no explanation given.

* Qantas have $15,000 of my parents money for which they have not received what they paid for. This is unacceptable.


My parents will not settle for anything less than a refund of the difference in my Father's Business Class Seat and the Economy Seat he was given. Additionally, some sort of detailed explanation and apology as to what exactly went on.

They have always flown QF and stayed extremely loyal to the brand. This has now shaken their confidence in QF as a whole, as it has to me.

I am booked to fly to London next March with my husband on QF, now there is a small worry in my mind that this could happen to us.


A previous poster said that any strategic explanation is between my parents and QF. This is true however I will definitely be providing this explanation to this forum if and when it becomes available. I believe people do have a right to know this stuff.

Thanks all and have a great week. Hopefully will be able to update you with some good news soon!

 

[ellen10]

Thank you EmilyP for your update and information.
Your parents did all the right things in this situation and have been let down very badly by Qantas.
I hope they receive a successful resolution and explanation.
I will look forward to your reporting back.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My parents will not settle for anything less than a refund of the difference in my Father's Business Class Seat and the Economy Seat he was given. Additionally, some sort of detailed explanation and apology as to what exactly went on.

Absolutely push for nothing less than the full fare difference between the lowest available economy class fare on the day the tickets were originally purchased and the business class fare paid. This is something which consumer affairs in your state will be able to assist you with if you have any problems and need advice.

 

[JessicaTam]

EmilyP, belated as it may be, and under very difficult circumstances for you and your parents - Welcome to AFF.

 

[JohnK]

To be fair to QF, my friends mother said that the cabin crew were brilliant. Very apologetic and shocked that they, and a few other J pax had been downgraded. She also said that the QF ground crew in LAX could not have been more disinterested in what was happening and tried nothing to reaccommodate the pax. Their advice was to 'go and enjoy the lounge'.

Simply not good enough.

I would not settle for anything less than the difference between full business class airfare paid and the cheapest economy ticket sold on that flight + adequate compensation for the downgrade to economy (perhaps $700 sounds good) and then satisfactory compensation for the inconvenience.

You cannot treat paying customers this way. Never.

If there was a single op-up or upgrade in premium cabins on that flight I would be fuming.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I feel for the passengers, what a sad experience especially in business class.

What a great deal for Qantas when the pax they bump are Gold Members in a paid revenue class. That flight must have been nice and profitable!
Why not bump them via Syd or Mel or onto United First? I mean if you're bumping PAID BUSINESS CLASS PASSENGERS WITH STATUS - it's a good problem right?

Overselling happens and it's not difficult to treat the pax with respect so they will come back in the future. QF clearly knew the flight was oversold and had hours if not days to take action to turn a ****ty experience into one where the pax would turn around and instantly choose QF on their next trip.

Instead - they're nervous and are unsure about ever flying with Qantas.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I think passengers should be told exactly how much money they will receive before they agree to the downgrade as they may think in good faith that they would be receiving the difference between a sale fare & PE which could be $2,000 ($1,000 if downgraded one wsy).

yes I agree but my friend is a bit of a flyer novice and assumed it would be a fair amount and didn't ask. Not sure how it could have been so little - I guess a very expensive Y fare vs a sale PE - she certainly won't do it again!

 

[ermen]

hypothetically speaking, which should be downgraded first?
1. award platinum?
2. paying Gold?

 

[JessicaTam]

hypothetically speaking, which should be downgraded first?
1. award platinum?
2. paying Gold?

Why not ask them both?

 

[mooingchicken]

They were told at check in their seats had been sold to someone else and they were being downgraded to economy

* Mum was given a Business Class seat at the last minute due to a no-show, but only because she was fairly tenacious in trying to figure out the situation

So they were obviously picked to be removed in the first instance (possibly before check in even open?) seeming they were "given back" one of there bussiness seats because someone else failed to show. So its not like they drew the short straw and were last to check in, therefore had to get bumped because all others were taken. Intresting that both J and PE were compleatly full? Would kind of expect J to go back to PE worst case scenario(or no PE on this flight?)

 

[kermatu]

Thanks to the OPs for relaying the story and outcomes to date. I am very interested in hearing any official responses to this scenario. I understand overselling happens because of no-shows etc (which I guess happen for legitimate reasons) but how this series of events has taken place is truly appalling. To have a paying status passenger downgraded with no warning, choice or explanation is terrible. It shouldn't happen even to an award customer (who has paid with points) with minimal status.

 

[grussellt]

If $US700 is adequate compensation then I will gladly hand over this sum and a Y ticket next time I fly and expect QF to give me a seat in J. Hang in there for a much better resolution and congratulations to the long suffering pax for staying calm.

 

[farstar]

This really would be a nightmare, you can feel helpless if the check-in staff don't want to help.

I would expect at least $700 if they put me up in a hotel and put me on Business the next day. If bumped to Economy it should be full refund or airlines get rewarded for over booking.

 

[Lonely Flyer]

. It is a shocker that QF ground crew was so disinterested.

Unfortunately they are not Australian and do not care. As a matter of course I always try to fly on tradionally light load days. Last time LAX-BNE J cabin was half empty/full depending whether you are a pessimist or an optimist.

 

[MelUser]

I flew out on QF 94 on Friday night (17/10/14). Every QF flight was full. QF like every airline does oversell from time to time. I suspect there were people who didn't get on their flight.

I flew out of JFK so checkin for me was much earlier than people checking in at LAX.

This has happened before and will happen again - Friday night QF out of LAX people do get bumped.

One time I left on a FRiday out of LAX and then CSM told me that there were 70 pax staying in hotels that night - that was across all the QF flights - 12,108,94 and 16.

I have seen where it goes the other way. Eg a premium Y flight - LAX-MEL-ADL was changed to LAX-SYD-ADL and pax put in J.

The mystery here is how people are selected for downgrades or cancellations. Sometimes it is errors in the booking that make the Qantas computer algorithm predict a no show.

But, as unpleasant as it is, it's probably a fact of life. AA goes around cancelling flights and downgrading people all the time!

 

[maninblack]

There is in reality little you can do in these circumstances except take your business elsewhere in the future. If you live in BNE I think QF is the only game in town on this route so that's not easy.

Even though online checkin is largely useless for international flights, you do have your boarding pass and seat selection, so they have to take it away from you at the baggage checkin, gives you at least a bit more of a leg to stand on and something to wave at the inevitably rude ground staff and the disingenuous 'supervisor'.

Once a proud and great airline, now relegated to the league of legacy dinosaurs.

 

[blackcat20]

I flew out on QF 94 on Friday night (17/10/14). Every QF flight was full. QF like every airline does oversell from time to time. I suspect there were people who didn't get on their flight.

I flew out of JFK so checkin for me was much earlier than people checking in at LAX.

This has happened before and will happen again - Friday night QF out of LAX people do get bumped.

One time I left on a FRiday out of LAX and then CSM told me that there were 70 pax staying in hotels that night - that was across all the QF flights - 12,108,94 and 16.

I have seen where it goes the other way. Eg a premium Y flight - LAX-MEL-ADL was changed to LAX-SYD-ADL and pax put in J.

The mystery here is how people are selected for downgrades or cancellations. Sometimes it is errors in the booking that make the Qantas computer algorithm predict a no show.

But, as unpleasant as it is, it's probably a fact of life. AA goes around cancelling flights and downgrading people all the time!

Eeek, I'm flying QF94 Friday week. Guess I'd better check in as early as possible to be safe.

 

[serfty]

There is in reality little you can do in these circumstances except take your business elsewhere in the future. If you live in BNE I think QF is the only game in town on this route so that's not easy.

Even though online checkin is largely useless for international flights, you do have your boarding pass and seat selection, so they have to take it away from you at the baggage checkin, gives you at least a bit more of a leg to stand on and something to wave at the inevitably rude ground staff and the disingenuous 'supervisor'. ...

There is VA daily to/from BNE; and IMHO, that's real competition - although being SG has advantages.

OLCI? Yes - this should always be done when possible as having the BP thus provided does give a higher level of security.

One question ... was it QF108 from JFK to LAX?

 

[UP4014]

What is a disappointment to me is that big corporates (in this case QF) never admit they stuffed up and got something wrong. I understand the lawyer panic about copping something on the chin.

Red Roo and the Virgin rep could could do themselves a favour and read From Worst to First about a failing airline in customer service and how it was fixed and loyalty form passengers won back.


Matt

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, and there is research to show that when people apologise for their mistake, the client/consumer/patient is very much less likely to take legal advice on the issue, or in this case go on public fora (as I'm thinking this is now wider than AFF), when adequate recognition and compensation is not forthcoming.

It's a good thread full of useful advice as in pre-warned is pre-armed.

What is a disappointment to me is that big corporates (in this case QF) never admit they stuffed up and got something wrong. I understand the lawyer panic about copping something on the chin.

Red Roo and the Virgin rep could could themselves a favourand read From Worst to First about a failing airline in customer service and how it was fixed and loyalty form passengers won back.


Matt