EK521 - B777 Crash landing in DXB

[Flying Fox]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

After an incident such as this, would the pilot & co-pilot be put straight back onto the roster or would they be suspended (not that I'm speculating that they did anything wrong) from duty for a time?

 

[Boris spatsky]

Gentlemen, back on topic please.

After an incident such as this, would the pilot & co-pilot be put straight back onto the roster or would they be suspended (not that I'm speculating that they did anything wrong) from duty for a time?

Normally they would be stood down in most airlines pending the investigation. Normal protocol.

 

[jb747]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

After an incident such as this, would the pilot & co-pilot be put straight back onto the roster or would they be suspended (not that I'm speculating that they did anything wrong) from duty for a time?

You certainly won't be flying straight away. Some airlines, the chances are that you'll be looking for other employment.

Even with proper management, the PTSD issues that can arise from this sort of accident can cut a career short. So, just from the point of view of managing that correctly, you really shouldn't go flying for a while. Sadly, given the investigations that happen immediately afterwards, those issues tend to be pushed to the rear. I'm looking forward to the 'Sully' movie in a few months. I initially thought it might be ra-ra hero rubbish, but it seems to be aimed right at the post accident dramas.

 

[katiebell]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

You certainly won't be flying straight away. Some airlines, the chances are that you'll be looking for other employment.

Even with proper management, the PTSD issues that can arise from this sort of accident can cut a career short. So, just from the point of view of managing that correctly, you really shouldn't go flying for a while. Sadly, given the investigations that happen immediately afterwards, those issues tend to be pushed to the rear. I'm looking forward to the 'Sully' movie in a few months. I initially thought it might be ra-ra hero rubbish, but it seems to be aimed right at the post accident dramas.

My industry sources told me that the pilots involved in the EK tail strike in MEL were sacked before they got back to Dubai and that their flats were packed up ready to be shipped out with the pilots

 

[Pushka]

Some people just dont like Emirates.

 

[jb747]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

My industry sources told me that the pilots involved in the EK tail strike in MEL were sacked before they got back to Dubai and that their flats were packed up ready to be shipped out with the pilots

I can think of any number of airlines that have behaved that way with expat pilots after an issue. From another angle, the BA pilot who had the double engine failure into London, found that he was unemployable, even though his response (to something unfixable), was outstanding. I expect that RdC and myself would find the same issue. It's not that we had a problem and fixed it, but that we are unlucky, and they'd rather have lucky pilots than good ones.

 

[TomVexille]

Some people just dont like Emirates.

I don't mind EK, but according to the pilot in that situation they were handed their own resignation letters when they arrived back in DXB

HE and his co-pilot were ordered to resign. They were handed pre-prepared letters of resignation when they returned to Emirates headquarters.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/emirates-pilot-in-tail-strike-near-disaster-tells-his-story/story-e6frf7jo-1225748572516

No idea if it's true as I wasn't there, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

 

[katiebell]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

I can think of any number of airlines that have behaved that way with expat pilots after an issue. From another angle, the BA pilot who had the double engine failure into London, found that he was unemployable, even though his response (to something unfixable), was outstanding. I expect that RdC and myself would find the same issue. It's not that we had a problem and fixed it, but that we are unlucky, and they'd rather have lucky pilots than good ones.

I agree that many employers, in many industries, blame the staff member for things beyond the control of the staff member rather that address the real issue. I have read Peter Burkill's account of BA038 and the consequences: the outcome for him is all very disappointing given the magnificent job he and his co-pilot did. At least some airlines do the right thing. It is my understanding that some, if not all, of the QF pilots who were flying QF32 when there was the uncontained engine failure are still flying for QF: I have been on flights with some of them. The trouble is that when it is known that an airline will sack pilots involved in incidents it does not encourage others to speak up about near misses and other safety issues. This is also true in other industries.

 

[katiebell]

I don't mind EK, but according to the pilot in that situation they were handed their own resignation letters when they arrived back in DXB

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/emirates-pilot-in-tail-strike-near-disaster-tells-his-story/story-e6frf7jo-1225748572516

No idea if it's true as I wasn't there, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

It is a fact that the damaged aircraft was flown back to Toulouse at/below 10 000ft (other than over Saudi where the had to climb to 14 000ft) as the bulkhead has been so badly damaged.

I have been told that the front of this aircraft was welded on to the back of another aircraft that was broken after getting away in an engine test at Toulouse and that this 'hybrid' aircraft is still flying for a ME carrier.

 

[jb747]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

I agree that many employers, in many industries, blame the staff member for things beyond the control of the staff member rather that address the real issue. I have read Peter Burkill's account of BA038 and the consequences: the outcome for him is all very disappointing given the magnificent job he and his co-pilot did. At least some airlines do the right thing. It is my understanding that some, if not all, of the QF pilots who were flying QF32 when there was the uncontained engine failure are still flying for QF: I have been on flights with some of them.

They all are. The FO is now a 737 Captain. I think SO is now an FO as well. All were awarded the highest awards from both the company (Chairman's Award) and IFALPA (Polaris). It's not that relevant to the discussion in that they did really well, and so there was no thought of QF having any issue with them. The idea that another airline might consider them to be unlucky is just astounding though, and makes a mockery of any reasonable recruiting system. It's much more relevant to QF1....in which there was pilot error. The issues were not fixed by sacking anybody, but rather by fixing the institutional problems that were such a big part of the accident chain. No pilot wants to make an error, but they all will. Thankfully, it's mostly either self or crew corrected.

The trouble is that when it is known that an airline will sack pilots involved in incidents it does not encourage others to speak up about near misses and other safety issues. This is also true in other industries.

Keep a close eye on the Rostov accident.

 

[jb747]

It is a fact that the damaged aircraft was flown back to Toulouse at/below 10 000ft (other than over Saudi where the had to climb to 14 000ft) as the bulkhead has been so badly damaged.

I have been told that the front of this aircraft was welded on to the back of another aircraft that was broken after getting away in an engine test at Toulouse and that this 'hybrid' aircraft is still flying for a ME carrier.

Hopefully there was no welding involved. Taking the aircraft back to manufacturing junctions (in the jigs) basically results in a new aircraft. I don't know whether the hybrid story is true or not, but there was a very sad Etihad 340 at Toulouse. Its story is another classic accident chain....

 

[tgh]

I have been exposed to the middle east mindset after some in depth exposure via a sporting interaction.
Imported labour at all levels and many corporate innocents tend to be on the next plane out with no discussion and sometimes no money at the whim of a sheik who needs someone to blame.
Old saying : Lie with dogs , get fleas…...

 

[katiebell]

Hopefully there was no welding involved. Taking the aircraft back to manufacturing junctions (in the jigs) basically results in a new aircraft. I don't know whether the hybrid story is true or not, but there was a very sad Etihad 340 at Toulouse. Its story is another classic accident chain....

That's the one: it did look very sad lying broken on the barrier.

The story came from an aviation person who is very knowledgeable

 

[katiebell]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

They all are. The FO is now a 737 Captain. I think SO is now an FO as well. All were awarded the highest awards from both the company (Chairman's Award) and IFALPA (Polaris). It's not that relevant to the discussion in that they did really well, and so there was no thought of QF having any issue with them. The idea that another airline might consider them to be unlucky is just astounding though, and makes a mockery of any reasonable recruiting system. It's much more relevant to QF1....in which there was pilot error. The issues were not fixed by sacking anybody, but rather by fixing the institutional problems that were such a big part of the accident chain. No pilot wants to make an error, but they all will. Thankfully, it's mostly either self or crew corrected.

Keep a close eye on the Rostov accident.

Good to know that all were recognsied for thier efforts, still with QF and awarded for their outstanding efforts.

It is true that we will all make mistakes: that is part of being human and also why it is so important that our employers let us speak up about near misses so that systems can be put in place to mitigate the risks. Having a just culture is so important in critical risk industries and one of the things i consider when choosing whom I fly with. When staff are sacked or forced out then the safety culture suffers and risks increase.

The vast majority of people do not want to get things wrong/make errors but a tiny minority set out to do so (e.g. UK GP Harold Shipman & Germanwings pilot Andreas Lubitz). NB I am not making any comment on the EK pilots: I am assuming that they, like the vast majority of people, were trying to do the right thing (for those who think I just want to slam EK all the time: I do not).

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

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[flychrisfly]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

Not all bad news...

 

[tgh]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Interesting post on the scuttle butt channel… [/FONT]


[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Date of Occurrence: Aug-16[/FONT]
AC Type: B773
From: TRV
To: DBX
Source: SiD
Event Title: Crash Landing

Event Summary:

During flare updraft caused the A/C to float till after the end of the touch downd (sic) zone. We decided to G/A. Normal G/A initiated after that we had positive climb so the gear was retracted. Speed dropped rapidly below the top of amber band due to W/S. W/S proc was done however the A/C crash landed on the RW and skidded off it to come to a complete stop off the RW with fire and fumes covering the whole A/C. Mayday declared and evacuation initiated. All pax and crew survived without serious injuries.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

During flare updraft caused the A/C to float till after the end of the touch downd (sic) zone. We decided to G/A. Normal G/A initiated after that we had positive climb so the gear was retracted. Speed dropped rapidly below the top of amber band due to W/S. W/S proc was done however the A/C crash landed on the RW and skidded off it to come to a complete stop off the RW with fire and fumes covering the whole A/C. Mayday declared and evacuation initiated. All pax and crew survived without serious injuries.

Not sure if this is completely true, but if it is, then I guess that's the most ultimate bad luck a pilot could ever experience.

 

[jb747]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

Doing the rounds, but, it doesn't gel.

 

[samh004]

Re: Emirates 777 fire at DXB

Not all bad news...

Would have been a better story had he bought the ticket following the crash... and wasn't he lucky he didn't put it in his checked baggage!