Election 2010 August 21

[medhead]

Look at National Broadband Guarantee. Even if it does not apply to you, there is a form to fill in that leads you through to which ISP's and services are available in your area.

See Broadband Locator Service.

Thanks I'll have a look. Normally I'll use whirlpool for this stuff. But another source can't hurt

 

[markis10]

Sorry but 80% of the population is not good enough. I'd also dispute that current infrastructure can deliver to 80% of the current population. I live 8 km from a capital city CBD and the current infrastructure is not delivering.

Which CBD, both Sydney and Adelaide have WiMAX options that were introduced as part of the Liberal Metropolitan Broadband Blackspots Program, in the case of Adelaide it was delayed by 4 years but at least it was not cancelled like OPEL was for the bush. $60 a month for 50GB and 12Mbs with a contention ratio a lot less than 200:1 is what you are looking at.

From all reports the current infrastructure is delivering, for those that have researched the options.

 

[medhead]

Which CBD, both Sydney and Adelaide have WiMAX options that were introduced as part of the Liberal Metropolitan Broadband Blackspots Program, in the case of Adelaide it was delayed by 4 years but at least it was not cancelled like OPEL was for the bush. $60 a month for 50GB and 12Mbs with a contention ratio a lot less than 200:1 is what you are looking at.

From all reports the current infrastructure is delivering, for those that have researched the options.

My initial reaction was to say I have researched my options, it only took me about 1 year of research before moving from dial up to ADSL. Clearly this great WIMAX service at 4 years late is only just becoming available. Whereas, after researching my options, I have been on ADSL for 4 years at least.

Which CBD? My location says Adelaide.

Having now check the options available via WIMAX, I would love to know where you get that plan from. Contention ratio, I would expect to be an order of magnitude better than 200:1. (I assume that was a typo)

Aussie Broadband says I'm not covered. Adam Internet says I can pay $80 a month for 10GB and $400 set up. NuSkope says I can pay $60 for 50GB at 1500/512. Or $30 for 4GB at full* speed and no 50GB plans at that full speed.

Basically pay more for less data limit, a big set up fee or lock into a contract and get a marginally better peak speed that isn't likely to be achieved in reality. I fail to see how this is any better than what I can already get, unlike a fibre to my home.

Getting back on topic you have still failed to convince me that the Liberal broadband policy is anything but a failure. Certainly this stop gap Wimax thing does not stack up against a nation building idea like the NBN.

I'll agree that there are bigger infrastructure issues. But that gets back to a question of the timing. Overall the NBN is an improvement on the ad hoc mess that the Liberals have given us and still plan to give us.

Edit: Pick up a previous topic about oversight and not just splashing the cash around. Just saw Abbott on 7:30 report, telling me about how he isn't a control freak; how he doesn't plan to be across the details of programs or involve himself in oversight of programs. Basically he isn't going to be making sure that the government gets value for money either, when they give a state government money for whatever. Very surprising given all the cough that Abbott is trying to sling about BER and pink bat oversight.

 

[markis10]

My initial reaction was to say I have researched my options, it only took me about 1 year of research before moving from dial up to ADSL. Clearly this great WIMAX service at 4 years late is only just becoming available. Whereas, after researching my options, I have been on ADSL for 4 years at least.

Which CBD? My location says Adelaide.

Having now check the options available via WIMAX, I would love to know where you get that plan from. Contention ratio, I would expect to be an order of magnitude better than 200:1. (I assume that was a typo).

A couple of points:

1. I know you have been commuting between Sydney and Adelaide and rather than assume I thought I would ask.

2. I said a contention ratio of less than 200:1, why would that be a typo, it sounds like you not sure what I mean, the lower the ration the less people sharing the same bandwidth, Telstra Bigpond is 200:1, Telstra Business is 50:1, I am sure you are starting to understand this now.

3. I said WiMax is becoming available now, the original program saw it being rolled out in 07 but Kevin 07 put it on hold .

4. I hope you improve your researching skills, as you have only referenced broadband choice without looking at the providers pages, and you are not referencing the WIMAX plans, try the AdamMax Average Plan:

up to 12Mbps/1Mbps 50GB (25GB+25GB) $69.95

5. 4 Years ago there were three wireless providers covering Adelaide in addition to the ADSL options, so you had options there as well - two have now gone but NuSkope is still around and possibly another choice (NuSkope Pty. Ltd. - Wireless Broadband).

6. You are not eligible for the Australian Broadband Guarantee because the labour government has not changed the definition of a metro service since 07:

A metro-comparable service as defined as:

• speeds of at least 512 kbps download and 128 kbps upload;
• at least 3 GB monthly download limit;

Your example is one that shows why Labor has not handled Broadband well at all:

1. A consumer that is not aware of alternatives to their poor ADSL service because they are not publicised since it was a Liberal program - ABG/HIBIS/MBB. those alternatives having been available for years.
2. A consumer that is not eligible for a fast service subsidy because the Metro broadband service definition has not been updated since Labor took office three years ago.
3. A consumer that thinks wireless offers poorer service levels, a common perception propagated by Labor (and the reason they used for cancelling the Opel contract), when in reality they have a wireless service in their town that offers performance far in excess of what is available as a result of another program that could not be canned & is again poorly publicised because it was not a labor idea.

Is the NBN really the answer to your woes, it does not offer much over what you could get already, offers no mobility improvements and sees anything up to 46 billion dollars being added to our balance of payments since the suppliers building the network are likely to continue to be all overseas companies!

I hope you get off ADSL1, and out of the grip of Telstra, we are a total wireless household for broadband and phone and love it, it also moves as we travel which is a bit hard for xDSL or Fibre.

 

[medhead]

A couple of points:

1. I know you have been commuting between Sydney and Adelaide and rather than assume I thought I would ask.

2. I said a contention ratio of less than 200:1, why would that be a typo, it sounds like you not sure what I mean, the lower the ration the less people sharing the same bandwidth, Telstra Bigpond is 200:1, Telstra Business is 50:1, I am sure you are starting to understand this now.

3. I said WiMax is becoming available now, the original program saw it being rolled out in 07 but Kevin 07 put it on hold .

4. I hope you improve your researching skills, as you have only referenced broadband choice without looking at the providers pages, and you are not referencing the WIMAX plans, try the AdamMax Average Plan:

up to 12Mbps/1Mbps 50GB (25GB+25GB) $69.95

5. 4 Years ago there were three wireless providers covering Adelaide in addition to the ADSL options, so you had options there as well - two have now gone but NuSkope is still around and possibly another choice (NuSkope Pty. Ltd. - Wireless Broadband).

6. You are not eligible for the Australian Broadband Guarantee because the labour government has not changed the definition of a metro service since 07:

A metro-comparable service as defined as:

• speeds of at least 512 kbps download and 128 kbps upload;
• at least 3 GB monthly download limit;

Your example is one that shows why Labor has not handled Broadband well at all:

1. A consumer that is not aware of alternatives to their poor ADSL service because they are not publicised since it was a Liberal program - ABG/HIBIS/MBB. those alternatives having been available for years.
2. A consumer that is not eligible for a fast service subsidy because the Metro broadband service definition has not been updated since Labor took office three years ago.
3. A consumer that thinks wireless offers poorer service levels, a common perception propagated by Labor (and the reason they used for cancelling the Opel contract), when in reality they have a wireless service in their town that offers performance far in excess of what is available as a result of another program that could not be canned & is again poorly publicised because it was not a labor idea.

Is the NBN really the answer to your woes, it does not offer much over what you could get already, offers no mobility improvements and sees anything up to 46 billion dollars being added to our balance of payments since the suppliers building the network are likely to continue to be all overseas companies!

I hope you get off ADSL1, and out of the grip of Telstra, we are a total wireless household for broadband and phone and love it, it also moves as we travel which is a bit hard for xDSL or Fibre.

You know you come across as supercilious. (edit oops, I should say I know this because I have faced that accusation myself, from family)

I can only say that I did check the providers website. You can tell that by how I quoted the details of various plans. I'm not sure how $60 = $69.95, but I'm sure you would still accuse the ALP for being financially useless. But in any case Wimax is even more expensive than you made out and it still provides only a marginal speed increase over what I can get already.

I think that covers your points 1-5.

As for point 6 now you are really getting hypocritical. Your position is that the government should be subsidising a cable service to people via the NBN. But you criticise the ALP for not redefining the ABG eligibility criteria so that someone like me who is getting an equivalent service for less should be subsidised for the ABG. Besides I did not say anything about eligibility for ABG

The main thing that I really want, and I've mentioned this is already, is higher upload speed. Basically, despite all the great help and information you've provided, Wimax is not a solution, I want better not the same. A political policy based on that is a fail IMO.

And just to reinforce my position I'll refer my previous post:

Getting back on topic you have still failed to convince me that the Liberal broadband policy is anything but a failure. Certainly this stop gap Wimax thing does not stack up against a nation building idea like the NBN.

 

[Flashback]

And the other thing is I basically consider that off-peak quota shouldn't be counted in the quota you have because let's face it ; for the majority of people, your every day user, they generally won't get much benefit out of it.

The other problem with wireless is it counts uploads as well as downloads (as does Telstra/Optus on their DSL/Cable plans, and iiNet on it's Naked ADSL only) ; so when saying you get "3gb" for example, you're in reality getting much less.

 

[medhead]

And the other thing is I basically consider that off-peak quota shouldn't be counted in the quota you have because let's face it ; for the majority of people, your every day user, they generally won't get much benefit out of it.

The other problem with wireless is it counts uploads as well as downloads (as does Telstra/Optus on their DSL/Cable plans, and iiNet on it's Naked ADSL only) ; so when saying you get "3gb" for example, you're in reality getting much less.

Good point of the quota. That would sort of be ok for me, as I provide an ftp server that is mainly accessed offpeak (also why I want upload speed). Then again data allowance is not an issue for me, I rarely use 10GB. Of course, that would change if upload was counted, another reason that wimax just doesn't stack up.

btw I have a telstra wholesale service from another ISP that doesn't count upload.

 

[Flashback]

Good point of the quota. That would sort of be ok for me, as I provide an ftp server that is mainly accessed offpeak (also why I want upload speed). Then again data allowance is not an issue for me, I rarely use 10GB. Of course, that would change if upload was counted, another reason that wimax just doesn't stack up.

btw I have a telstra wholesale service from another ISP that doesn't count upload.

Exactly. I run an off-site backup, which amounts to a fair bit of upload every month. Currently free on my iiNet ADSL. If it was to change, would certainly change the viability of it....

 

[markis10]

I can only say that I did check the providers website. You can tell that by how I quoted the details of various plans. I'm not sure how $60 = $69.95, but I'm sure you would still accuse the ALP for being financially useless. But in any case Wimax is even more expensive than you made out and it still provides only a marginal speed increase over what I can get already.

LOL -

Adam Internet says I can pay $80 a month for 10GB

- did you really check, 10GB for $80 is a lot different to 50Gb for $69.95 or my misread $60 from the plan below it !

I will leave you with your research, to say that 12Mbs down 1 Mbs up is a marginal improvement on ADSL speeds indicates you have a lot more research to do, I dont call a 300% increase in speeds on uploads marginal regardless of the contention ratio , tried VOIP lately, its another good telstra beater.

 

[markis10]

The other problem with wireless is it counts uploads as well as downloads (as does Telstra/Optus on their DSL/Cable plans, and iiNet on it's Naked ADSL only) ; so when saying you get "3gb" for example, you're in reality getting much less.

Which wireless, you need to be specific, the WIMAX service in Perth does not count uploads, nor do many other providers using wireless. Wireless as a technology does not mandate counting uploads, there are providers in all capital cities providing Layer 2 services with no traffic limits or charges for business customers.

Good point of the quota. That would sort of be ok for me, as I provide an ftp server that is mainly accessed offpeak (also why I want upload speed). Then again data allowance is not an issue for me, I rarely use 10GB. Of course, that would change if upload was counted, another reason that wimax just doesn't stack up.
btw I have a telstra wholesale service from another ISP that doesn't count upload.

You would have 50GB of upload at 1mbs available under that WIMAX plan versus the throttled 384kbs you currently have , but its a marginal improvement according to one who is looking for upload speed - huh?

Maybe I can send Latham over to help you out, at least his presence has put a little spark into the SPIN that has been so boring.

 

[medhead]

LOL - - did you really check, 10GB for $80 is a lot different to 50Gb for $69.95 or my misread $60 from the plan below it !

Yeah, my mistake that was their business plans. But then you seem to think business plans would be relevant when it comes to counting data uploads. Do you think they would sell a business plan to a residential customer?

I will leave you with your research, to say that 12Mbs down 1 Mbs up is a marginal improvement on ADSL speeds indicates you have a lot more research to do, I dont call a 300% increase in speeds on uploads marginal regardless of the contention ratio , tried VOIP lately, its another good telstra beater.

You would have 50GB of upload at 1mbs available under that WIMAX plan versus the throttled 384kbs you currently have , but its a marginal improvement according to one who is looking for upload speed - huh?

What is the upload speed on a fibre optic cable? 1Mbps or is it a little bit more? For that matter what is the upload speed on ADSL2+? Just so you can inform me, the poor, know nothing, under researched soul that I am.

wimax is going to achieve a consistent 12/1 in all conditions, rain, hail or shine when those 200 people are all on line? I think not.

VOIP - yeah I only have 3 VSPs and even a DID. :shock: Who would have thought from someone so un-researched as me.

Now, while you attempts to cast me as someone who doesn't understand my own situation are amusing, the topic of this thread is not how much you think I don't know about broadband technology. If it suits you can we get back on topic!

 

[straitman]

Please keep it up you two as this is entertaining, which is more than I can say for the real campaign :!:

 

[medhead]

Please keep it up you two as this is entertaining, which is more than I can say for the real campaign :!:

If you find my personal Internet usage interesting you must be watching the wrong election. The chaser and gruen have been rather amusing, Julie bishop and Malcolm T as well. Latham, aka arm breaker, is just a goose.

I thought gillard was rather rude to some poor down and out at the train station today. Abbott is going to waste money putting water into the Coorong? Why not just open the barrages and spend the money on water recycling.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

It's sad to think we've got the choices between tweedle dumb and well tweed dumb.

I just wish there was a true Leader who would stand up, have an honest dialogue with those who they're supposed to represent, and then get the nation to move int eh right direction.

I'd also like to see a slash and burn of the humongous middle class welfare that's showered out to the "hard working families".

Unless the State is forcing you to have kids, then pay for them yourself! Out of a 343 billion dollar expenditure budget 1.086 Billion goes for paid parental leave, 3.625 billion for childr care, 4.357 billion for family tax benefit part B, i cant find any figures for family tax benefit part A. then there's the private school funding, the $500 and $750 rebates for school expenses.

All the above cost more than the tax cuts we received this year.

I'm all for helping the genuinely poor, but much of the above money goes to families out buying the latest 3D LED TV, the kids have got $150 sports shoes, an X-box / PS3, the nintendo DS / PSP.

I might have a harsh view, but why do I have to subsidise that?

 

[cove]

Just remember that slogan "Taxes building a better Australia".
Lower taxes are off the radar as spending promises in the final month of an election just run totally out of control by all of the major parties.
It is our special bribery every 3 years that taxpayers cannot afford.

 

[drron]

Just remember that slogan "Taxes building a better Australia".
Lower taxes are off the radar as spending promises in the final month of an election just run totally out of control by all of the major parties.
It is our special bribery every 3 years that taxpayers cannot afford.

As was said a long time ago-"Elections are a pre auction of stolen goods."

 

[cove]

Very good.....I had not heard that before DRRON.
If only we could make this every 4 years......

 

[straitman]

Very good.....I had not heard that before DRRON.
If only we could make this every 4 years......

Every four years on a fixed date!

 

[simongr]

Unless the State is forcing you to have kids, then pay for them yourself! Out of a 343 billion dollar expenditure budget 1.086 Billion goes for paid parental leave, 3.625 billion for childr care, 4.357 billion for family tax benefit part B, i cant find any figures for family tax benefit part A. then there's the private school funding, the $500 and $750 rebates for school expenses.

I might have a harsh view, but why do I have to subsidise that?

Just on the private school funding - why should parents who pay taxes not get the same level of per child investment (i.e. combining state and federal funding) if they send their kids to private rather than state education?

By the same token would you also eliminate medicare contributions for medical costs related to child birth?

 

[medhead]

It's sad to think we've got the choices between tweedle dumb and well tweed dumb.

I just wish there was a true Leader who would stand up, have an honest dialogue with those who they're supposed to represent, and then get the nation to move int eh right direction.

I'd also like to see a slash and burn of the humongous middle class welfare that's showered out to the "hard working families".

Unless the State is forcing you to have kids, then pay for them yourself! Out of a 343 billion dollar expenditure budget 1.086 Billion goes for paid parental leave, 3.625 billion for childr care, 4.357 billion for family tax benefit part B, i cant find any figures for family tax benefit part A. then there's the private school funding, the $500 and $750 rebates for school expenses.

All the above cost more than the tax cuts we received this year.

I'm all for helping the genuinely poor, but much of the above money goes to families out buying the latest 3D LED TV, the kids have got $150 sports shoes, an X-box / PS3, the nintendo DS / PSP.

I might have a harsh view, but why do I have to subsidise that?

You reminded me of last nights Gruen Transfer with John Hewson quoting a South Park episode where the election was between a turd and a ...... (? Sorry memory fails me)

As a recipient of this middle class welfare, while I agree with the sentiment for the record I would say that this government has taken steps to slash Family tax benefit. You may remember the gnashing of teeth when they imposed an income limit of $150000 total. Maybe a small step but it is going to be a long road winding it all back. In my case with my new job I now on the border of not getting FTB, it is still taking me time to get to grips with the fact that I can probably live without the extra $50 per week. With loss of family tax benefit I will also lose the education rebate.

I will however disagree with your assessment of spending of the money. There is no avoiding the costs of children. So yes, one off cash payments might be spent on things for adults but they will end up spending 10 times that amount on the kids. The needs, wants and desires of parents don't disappear when they have kids.