Election 2010 August 21

[straitman]

That's what we have the Senate for. :shock: (generally)

..... And you still believe that do you :?:

 

[JeniSkunk]

That's what we have the Senate for. :shock: (generally)

That depends on who has control of the Senate.

When it's in the control of the party that also controls the Lower House, the Senate is merely a rubber stamp.
eg: the Senate under Howard when the Liberals controlled both Houses.

When it's in the control of the major party in opposition in the Lower House, the Senate becomes a brick wall to getting legislation passed that the opposition dislikes.
eg: Rudd jammed from dealing with Work Choices until half way through his term as PM because the Liberals still controlled the Senate.

When the balance of power is in the control of a minority party who do not think about the Nation but merely what they want and who have an agenda, then the country is at the mercy of those coughs that the majority of Australians did not vote for.
eg: Steve Fielding from Family First

When the balance of power is in the control of a minority party who do think about what is best for the Nation and who have an agenda, then we get reasonable government.
eg: The Australian Democrats.

Jenifur Charne

 

[serfty]

It was great in the late 70's and 80's 'cause I could effectively vote for the candidate who I wanted in the house of representatives and also vote for Don Chipp's party - when the Australian Democrats more represented my thoughts than anyone else.

IMHO, yes, they did a good job of "Keeping the coughs Honest" in those days.

Sadly this has not been the case since then; so I cling to the proportional voting system where I can put one or three of the 'coughs' last! :-|

 

[drron]

Hung Parliament In Federal Election | Federal Election 2010

Scary vision of the future....:shock:

Not in Tasmania.

 

[Keith009]

Not in Tasmania.

I was more referring to the idea of Katter in control... or the Greens. And before anyone brings up the ALP-Greens preference deal, it's actually Liberal preferences which are going to elect a Green MHR. Pot meets kettle.

 

[Keith009]

..... And you still believe that do you :?:

Nup. But generally it's the chamber where legislation gets stalled (WorstChoices notwithstanding). Otherwise, depending on the make up of the Senate, it's simply a convenient political excuse for not introducing promised legislation for any reason. And unlike the Lower House, some fun numbers games to be played in the Senate to pass unpopular legislation - VSU legislation for instance, even though I vehemently oppose the legislation itself, I appreciate the elegant political manouvering that took place to pass the legislation within some 24 hours (or 18 depending on which version of the story one hears) on the last sitting day of 2005.

 

[medhead]

When the balance of power is in the control of a minority party who do think about what is best for the Nation and who have an agenda, then we get reasonable government.
eg: The Australian Democrats.

Jenifur Charne

Until they commit political suicide by doing a deal on the GST.

 

[medhead]

Liberals:

Broadband = Fail
(to paraphrase Abbott, the ALP stuffed up the home insulation thingy, so therefore we can stuff up the national internet infrastructure and do it by 2016)

Getting their sums right and story consistent = Fail :shock:

 

[moa999]

Personally I think the Libs have got it right on Broadband.
The $43bn v $6bn is a lot of money and will be recouped in otherways - I am quite happy with my 10gig at 20Mbs/sec for $30/month and do not want to be forced to pay more.

That said I think Labour will win the election, and as much as I don't like Julia (either version) think she is more real than Abbot.
However think the Greens will win the balance of power.
Given the greens basic economic policy is to prevent economic development in order to protect the environment, the country will go backwards.

Can certainly see a double dissolution in 2-3 yrs to get rid of the Greens which will be a Turnbull v Gillard showdown.

 

[markis10]

I love the difference in the equipment the two leaders are using for their teams and press:

PM
BBJ and A319 Jets

Libs
E170 and a Crash 8 charted from NZ.


Not to mention the ministers running all over the place in the King Airs and CL604s, the has been a CL604 at Gladstone almost every day for the last two weeks.

 

[medhead]

Personally I think the Libs have got it right on Broadband.
The $43bn v $6bn is a lot of money and will be recouped in otherways - I am quite happy with my 10gig at 20Mbs/sec for $30/month and do not want to be forced to pay more.

Well you would think that if that is the service you currently get. Meanwhile the other 85% of us can't get a decent broadband service for anything like that cheap and I don't wanted to be forced onto a wireless service that can only achieve peak speeds at 3am.

 

[Flashback]

Well you would think that if that is the service you currently get. Meanwhile the other 85% of us can't get a decent broadband service for anything like that cheap and I don't wanted to be forced onto a wireless service that can only achieve peak speeds at 3am.

Agreed. I stayed with my relatives last week who only have access via Satellite and it was slow and expensive and had very little quota included for the price! That's with it being subsidised, too.

 

[Hvr]

Personally I think the Libs have got it right on Broadband.
The $43bn v $6bn is a lot of money and will be recouped in otherways - I am quite happy with my 10gig at 20Mbs/sec for $30/month and do not want to be forced to pay more.

Tony Abbott was very poor on the 7.30 Report this evening when trying to explain why he chose an inferior product. Kept saying to Kerry that he wasn't a tech head and couldn't get into a debate about it but that it was better than Labor wasting money on fibre to the door.

Tony believes that it is enough to put in some fibre optic cable and that private enterprise will put the rest in when the demand eventuates. Yeah right, you only have to look at the privatisation of Telstra to see that private enterprise will not go where they cannot make a heap of short term profits.

No intention at all to spend money in areas where profits may take time to be realised.

Don't either of these parties realise that basic infrastructure is crumbling around us and that there will need to be massive investment and damned soon before this country fades away to irrelevance?

Of course this will need spending and the media has made both parties too scared to run a deficit budget to invest in our future.

 

[markis10]

Tony Abbott was very poor on the 7.30 Report this evening when trying to explain why he chose an inferior product.

I dont think he chose an inferior product, the NBN is a gross waste of money in terms of what its trying to achieve, their coverage figures and costs estimates are not that dissimilar to the cable rollout by Telstra and C&W many years ago and look how far that got coverage wise. There is nothing wrong with wireless if its implemented properly and has one advantage over any other technology, its mobile, our use of fixed telephone lines are declining in favor of mobiles, the same is going to happen with data. The NBN does not address this change at all.

 

[cove]

43 billion dollars NBN will require folks to pay large monthly rates like $100 a month or more or else its the taxpayers problem.
I dont think that we will get a 100 per cent sign up beyond a price of about $20 a month.

 

[moa999]

Well you would think that if that is the service you currently get. Meanwhile the other 85% of us can't get a decent broadband service for anything like that cheap

I agree access for many needs to be improved and the spend on fibre backbone by both parties will help that. I also agree a solution needs to be prioritised for those still on pair gain or other range extension systems and for those who are outside the 3-4km range where ADSL starts falling apart.

What I disagree with is digging trenches and laying fibre, or stringing fibre, in suburbs with perfectly good ADSL and, in many cases in Sydney and Melbourne, duplicated cable runs, and disconnecting substations and racks. Money that would be far better spent on health and education.

 

[medhead]

I dont think he chose an inferior product, the NBN is a gross waste of money in terms of what its trying to achieve, their coverage figures and costs estimates are not that dissimilar to the cable rollout by Telstra and C&W many years ago and look how far that got coverage wise. There is nothing wrong with wireless if its implemented properly and has one advantage over any other technology, its mobile, our use of fixed telephone lines are declining in favor of mobiles, the same is going to happen with data. The NBN does not address this change at all.

Is the NBN 2 competing companies running separate cables done the same streets? The cable roll out is a fine example of exactly why this can't be left to private companies that would rather duplicate infrastructure in the most profitable areas than maximise coverage.

Also given the non existent cable coverage I'm not sure NBN will be the same.

Ignoring the technology issues there is also the liberals idea to sell off the NBN. So they are going to have to spend a heap of money to cancel contract and sack people and what do they have to sell? Tasmania. No disrespect to Tasmania but I can't see them making a lot of money from NBN once they pay out to wind it up.

 

[medhead]

I agree access for many needs to be improved and the spend on fibre backbone by both parties will help that. I also agree a solution needs to be prioritised for those still on pair gain or other range extension systems and for those who are outside the 3-4km range where ADSL starts falling apart.

What I disagree with is digging trenches and laying fibre, or stringing fibre, in suburbs with perfectly good ADSL and, in many cases in Sydney and Melbourne, duplicated cable runs, and disconnecting substations and racks. Money that would be far better spent on health and education.

Well I can get Telstra or Telstra wholesale adsl1 where I am. That's it. Is that perfectly good adsl?

There also little point throwing money at health. I work in health and the people who know about these things are already not happy that money is just being thrown around without fixing the system.

Education would benefit from people valuing teachers and the profession for a start. (Based on both my parents being teachers.) At least Gillard has some plans to try to do that.

 

[markis10]

Tasmania. No disrespect to Tasmania but I can't see them making a lot of money from NBN once they pay out to wind it up.

The NBN in Tasmania is not new, its been there for a while as part of TasGovNet, the additional backhaul fibre was laid when the electricty cables were run from Loy Yang in the Latrobe Valley, all they have done is turn the light on and connect some customers up to a trial that was running for over two years (TASColt), and suck you in with propaganda.

The first core supplier contract for the NBN was signed three weeks ago, its very early days when it comes to cancelling the contract, just like the government did to OPEL which would have seen a lot less subsidised Sat services deployed at $4000 per service.


BTW the duplication of the HFC network by Telstra and Optus ended up being 20% of the footprint both covered, hardly two competing services in every street, ironically that technology today can deliver what the government is promising in 6 years time with the NBN in terms of speed!

Well I can get Telstra or Telstra wholesale adsl1 where I am. That's it. Is that perfectly good adsl?

What you can get now and what technology can provide over the same infrastructure are two different things, there is no reason why VDSL2 with 150/50mb speeds could be delivered to you the same way you get ADSL1!

You can also get ADSL2+ speeds with Telstra Next G wireless, but you are probably dont want to pay for it, will you want to pay for the NBN?

 

[drron]

I am glad that I am in a Tony and Julia free zone.In 48 hours no internet as well.
And to those who believe "real" Julia is real-then the spin doctors have been very successful.
By the way I also feel Julia will win but am happy about it.Real Julia and Wayne will stuff it up good and proper.Tony will get the flick and in 2013 the Libs will get back in for a long time.