Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[jb747]

The slat track issue is just a normal sort of fault. They come up regularly during the course of any aircraft's life. A failure, in the worst case, would have little effect on the aircraft controllability.

MCAS is not exclusive to the 737 MAX. It is how it was applied to the 737 MAX that is the issue.

What else has MCAS? From my reading it's a purely MAX system and issue.

 

[Berlin]

If a particular country does require a separate endorsement for this aircraft, does that mean a pilot flying from a country that doesn't require one is not allowed to fly in the one which does? (e.g. if the US regulator grandfathered it provision for the Max but Europe didn't, would a US pilot with no endorsement be able to fly the plane to Europe?)

I’d like to know more about this as well. However, even if it was Chinese regulators alone who end up not certifying the Max as fit to fly again, that already would be a huge issue for Boeing given how important this market is. And right now, Chinese regulators would have ample reason to show the big middle finger to a US company, even if just for political reasons.

 

[straitman]

What else has MCAS? From my reading it's a purely MAX system and issue.

I'll need to look things up again however whilst not in the same size bracket at all the PC-21 comes to mind.

This actually surprised me so I went into the system descriptions and lessons and that's what it has. In the PC-21 case it adjusts pitch with speed brake application.

 

[jb747]

I'll need to look things up again however whilst not in the same size bracket at all the PC-21 comes to mind.

This actually surprised me so I went into the system descriptions and lessons and that's what it has. In the PC-21 case it adjusts pitch with speed brake application.

I don't know that I really consider that to be the same thing. Airbus all have alpha floor, which will stop the aircraft from being stalled. But, neither of those systems involve putting in so much nose down trim that it completely overpowers the backstick input.

 

[straitman]

I don't know that I really consider that to be the same thing. Airbus all have alpha floor, which will stop the aircraft from being stalled. But, neither of those systems involve putting in so much nose down trim that it completely overpowers the backstick input.

Same name and effectively the same concept. It's been on the PC-21 since around 2002. Boeing 'copied' and stuffed it up as it shouldn't be able to be overpowering as they made it.

Hence the issue.

 

[Moody]

I don't know that I really consider that to be the same thing. Airbus all have alpha floor, which will stop the aircraft from being stalled. But, neither of those systems involve putting in so much nose down trim that it completely overpowers the backstick input.

I wonder if AF447 and QZ8501 encouraged Boeing to design such a system - putting more trust in the computers than the pilots. Turns out that, on occasion, both can be incompetent.

So my advice is to avoid Air France, Air Asia, and the 737Max .... until it is proven that they have learned the lessons from the past.

 

[amaroo]

Given all the improvements that will come through the loss and pain others had to endure .... I wouldn't put it past AJ to take full advantage. It's what he does.

 

[p--and--t]

Given all the improvements that will come through the loss and pain others had to endure .... I wouldn't put it past AJ to take full advantage. It's what he does.

Its what I would expect a shrewd businessman to do.

 

[p--and--t]

This is a rather disturbing investigative piece that reflects the major change in Boeing management attitudes towards safety after the amalgamation with McDonnell Douglas. Not just the MAX, way before that.

 

[Quickstatus]

Given all the improvements that will come through the loss and pain others had to endure .... I wouldn't put it past AJ to take full advantage. It's what he does.

Is this not the QF way? - don’t be the launch customer, let the links get ironed out, then buy the subsequent versions?

Eventually the standard tube and wing design will run up against engineering limits.

 

[amaroo]

Is this not the QF way? - don’t be the launch customer, let the links get ironed out, then buy the subsequent versions?

Buying the plane is not the only way to take advantage of the situation.

 

[Quickstatus]

Buying the plane is not the only way to take advantage of the situation.

That is true; but never rub out a competitor especially in a duopoly when you are a customer.

 

[p--and--t]

Is this not the QF way? - don’t be the launch customer, let the links get ironed out, then buy the subsequent versions?

Eventually the standard tube and wing design will run up against engineering limits.

I don't think I said that anywhere. Just that I expect he will try to find a way to use Boeing's woes to QF advantage.

 

[Quickstatus]

I would expect everyone will be hovering like vultures to pick the eyes out of Boeing’s misfortune. But at the same time keep Boeing alive to continue extracting as much advantage as possible and also keep Airbus honest

 

[jb747]

Perhaps that's one reason why 'businessmen' shouldn't be allowed too much power within airlines (or manufacturers). I would hope he'd actually buy the best aircraft for the job, not something that's being dumped as an engineering and marketing embarrassment.

As he hasn't actually bought anything for mainline, I expect he'll simply find another way of delaying.

 

[flyer89]

JB,

If you were in charge, what would you order and how many?

 

[woodborer]

Boeing aren't going anywhere. They may have to sharpen their pencils for a while, but they'll be around.

The big question is whether they have learnt anything. And given their public pronouncements they have followed all the established procedures, I would say not.

Might take a few court cases to belt the arrogance out of them.

 

[jb747]

If you were in charge, what would you order and how many?

As I wouldn't go near the 737, that doesn't leave all that many choices. Basically I'd go for the 320 NEO family.

 

[suze2000]

As I wouldn't go near the 737, that doesn't leave all that many choices. Basically I'd go for the 320 NEO family.

Presumably though the current 737-800s that are the workhorses of VA and QF in Australia are perfectly safe?

 

[serfty]

Presumably though the current 737-800s that are the workhorses of VA and QF in Australia are perfectly safe?

Certainly safe ... but likely not as fuel efficient as the newer designs ...