Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[jb747]

Presumably they did, but I did read the 'wheel' had became smaller with the more recent models.

Well, this is one of the major discussion points in all of this. The question is whether Boeing considered it at all, given that the original design was grandfathered from the pre NG models. The wheel became smaller, whilst the tail became larger, with the advent of the NG.

One outcome that I hope we see from this, is that grandfathering is removed as an option for any manufacturer.

 

[serfty]

This recent article seems quite a good summary:

The inside story of MCAS: How Boeing’s 737 MAX system gained power and lost safeguards

One point in the article I had not seen quantified:

---

"Early in the process of selling the MAX, according to two people familiar with the discussions, Boeing promised to give Southwest Airlines a substantial rebate for every plane if the MAX required simulator training.

One former MAX worker, Rick Ludtke, said the rebate reported to him by managers was $1 million per plane, a figure another Boeing employee indicated is roughly accurate."

---

 

[scaredeycat]

This recent article seems quite a good summary:

The inside story of MCAS: How Boeing’s 737 MAX system gained power and lost safeguards

One point in the article I had not seen quantified:

---

"Early in the process of selling the MAX, according to two people familiar with the discussions, Boeing promised to give Southwest Airlines a substantial rebate for every plane if the MAX required simulator training.

One former MAX worker, Rick Ludtke, said the rebate reported to him by managers was $1 million per plane, a figure another Boeing employee indicated is roughly accurate."

---

I wonder if that promise was in writing...

 

[oz_mark]

I wonder if that promise was in writing...

From what I have read, it was in the contract

 

[QF WP]

Well this is an interesting development (the story on the pilots class action). Boeing getting it from all sides. Can't seee how under this massive pressure, that they don't settle all the actions and get down to core business - building better planes (that need pilots to fly them!)

 

[OATEK]

Another "issue" found: New flaw discovered on Boeing 737 Max, sources say

 

[Ansett]

One only hopes that authorities learn from this and take back control with proper funding by relevant Governments a round the world. I for one would not be comfortable flying on a 737 Max.

 

[codash1099]

One only hopes that authorities learn from this and take back control with proper funding by relevant Governments a round the world. I for one would not be comfortable flying on a 737 Max.

Hopefully it will also lead to a change in the grandfathering rules, which are what really are the cause of the problems. Boeing will probably regret not biting the bullet in the first place. As I understand it, their approach was developed to avoid the need for undercarriage changes which would have allowed the larger engines to be fitted.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Hopefully it will also lead to a change in the grandfathering rules, which are what really are the cause of the problems. Boeing will probably regret not biting the bullet in the first place. As I understand it, their approach was developed to avoid the need for undercarriage changes which would have allowed the larger engines to be fitted.

The undercarriage on the -10 has already been changed to accommodate for the longer fuselage.

 

[oz_mark]

One only hopes that authorities learn from this and take back control with proper funding by relevant Governments a round the world. I for one would not be comfortable flying on a 737 Max.

My big question is about whether Boeing has learnt anything.

 

[Berlin]

My big question is about whether Boeing has learnt anything.

Going by all their statements and press releases, the answer to that is a big loud "No".

 

[oz_mark]

Another "issue" found: New flaw discovered on Boeing 737 Max, sources say

Reports out that a fix for this will not be ready until September.

 

[coriander]

This recent article seems quite a good summary:
The inside story of MCAS: How Boeing’s 737 MAX system gained power and lost safeguards

A quote from Serfty's linked article:

Boeing engineers considered that lack of redundancy acceptable, according to proprietary information reviewed by The Seattle Times,

It was actually Boeing who coined the phrase that "their engineers wore belts and braces" to hold up their trousers as a metaphor for their obsession with safety through redundancy.

Not any more.

Just a dodgy bit of elastic and a rust safety pin in an old pair of tracky-daks, it would seem.

However, IMHO Boeing will get out of this pretty much scot-free because (in no particular order):

• the world needs thousands of new planes and Airbus can't hope to match demand with increased supply;
• Boeing is "lucky" that the perception persists in the minds of USA's leader is that it was only third world airlines/people killed (would the US have been so blasé if the planes had been AA or BA?);
• the US President thinks Boeing is a wonderful AMERICAN company (this the opinion from a man whose #1 defence against a charge of rape is that "she's not my type"); and
• like the banks, such as Goldman-Sachs during the GFC, Boeing is "too big to fail."

 

[amaroo]

Good use of staff parking.

 

[serfty]

"Boeing Co. is offering $100 million to support the families of victims and others affected by two crashes of its 737 Max jetliner, which killed 346 people and have led to scores of lawsuits."

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The money will go toward “education, hardship and living expenses for impacted families, community programs and economic development in impacted communities,” Boeing said Wednesday in a statement. The funds would be committed over multiple years. ...

 

[Ansett]

Some how I think that 100 Million is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to total compensation costs to relatives and airlines.

 

[Quickstatus]

"Boeing Co. is offering $100 million to support the families of victims and others affected by two crashes of its 737 Max jetliner, which killed 346 people and have led to scores of lawsuits."

---

The money will go toward “education, hardship and living expenses for impacted families, community programs and economic development in impacted communities,” Boeing said Wednesday in a statement. The funds would be committed over multiple years. ...

The ones carrying the liability don’t get to say where the money should be spent. That’s just a marketing excercise

Though under the Mongreal Convention, the liability is limited to 113000 SDR (156000 USD) (but can be unlimited if fault is proven?)

This offer is about 290000 USD per person. Though it appears that it is to be doled out through multiple years,

 

[oz_mark]

And now, apparently the autopilot has problems..

EASA’s checklist includes a number of issues that have been disclosed: the potential difficulty pilots have in turning the jet’s manual trim wheel, the unreliability of the Max’s angle of attack sensors, inadequate training procedures, and a software issue flagged just last week by the FAA pertaining to a lagging microprocessor. But the agency also listed a previously unreported concern: the autopilot failing to disengage in certain emergencies.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Ansett]

My question is why weren't these issues picked up before and how safe are Boeing products?

With all the issues with the 787 batteries what other issues have been overlooked on the 787 and how will this also affect the 777 hopefully we will see a much closer inspection and testing by all Aviation Authorities around the world,,,,,

If its a Boeing I aint Going LOL

 

[oz_mark]

My question is why weren't these issues picked up before and how safe are Boeing products?

With all the issues with the 787 batteries what other issues have been overlooked on the 787 and how will this also affect the 777 hopefully we will see a much closer inspection and testing by all Aviation Authorities around the world,,,,,

If its a Boeing I aint Going LOL

Remember this - The initial response from the FAA after the Ethiopean crash was to issue a Continued Airworthiness Notification for the 737 -max.
That tells you everything.