Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[serfty]

Boeing 737 Max's Autopilot Has Problem, European Regulators Find | Bloomberg

Europe’s aviation regulator has outlined five major requirements it wants Boeing Co. to address before it will allow the planemaker’s 737 Max to return to service, according to a person familiar with the matter. One of them, about the jet’s autopilot function, hasn’t surfaced previously as an area of concern. ...

Five issues the European Aviation Safety Agency have listed so far are as needing to be addressed are as follows:

• The potential difficulty pilots have in turning the jet’s manual trim wheel,
• The unreliability of the Max’s angle of attack sensors,
• Inadequate training procedures,
• A software issue pertaining to a lagging microprocessor, and,
• The autopilot failing to disengage in certain emergencies.

The last one was only recently revealed.

 

[straitman]

Boeing 737 Max's Autopilot Has Problem, European Regulators Find | Bloomberg


Five issues the European Aviation Safety Agency have listed so far are as needing to be addressed are as follows:

• The potential difficulty pilots have in turning the jet’s manual trim wheel,
• The unreliability of the Max’s angle of attack sensors,
• Inadequate training procedures,
• A software issue pertaining to a lagging microprocessor, and,
• The autopilot failing to disengage in certain emergencies.

The last one was only recently revealed.

That list is actually a lot shorter than I thought it would be.

 

[jb747]

That list is actually a lot shorter than I thought it would be.

The list isn't all that long, but I wonder if it's a wonderful distilling of some extensive and difficult to fix issues down to just a few words. For instance, how do you fix the manual trim wheel issue without major remodelling of the coughpit, and possible total mechanical redesign of the entire trim system? The training issue would best be fixed by removing the MAX from the 737 entirely, and making it a new endorsement. Airlines would hate that, but it would at least ensure the training was adequate.

 

[oz_mark]

United Airlines Holdings said on Friday the Boeing 737 MAX would stay off its flight schedule until Nov. 3,

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

 

[suze2000]

Though the A320 cabin is 7 inches wider than the 737, the seat width is not significant wider.
<snip>
That it had massive forward orders demonstrated how cost efficient the aircraft likely was ... on paper. Why have a wider cabin but still only fit 3-3 in a row?. Really the passenger does not care

Stated by someone with a narrow bum, I imagine.
The extra inch matters a lot actually. It IS significantly wider if you have a wide bum or shoulders, or both, or are fat, or travelling with a fat companion. Also in my case, coughs so big, they push my arms out sideways when I sit as well as all the above. And no, I'm not fat enough for a comfort seat, but that extra inch makes very big difference to me. IOW, the passenger DOES care. I clearly remember all the comments made about the torturous journeys when VA started up because of their 737 fleet when at the time QF had mostly 767 and Airbus on the PER routes (or a 747 if you were really lucky). These days, it's hard to avoid the 737, but I *do* try. And I'm not the only one.

I'm also really getting sick of reiterating how much of a difference that "slightly" wider seat can make.

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes I understand that but here is the rub - most will not care.

 

[suze2000]

Yes I understand that but here is the rub - most will not care.

They would if they knew there was an actual choice. Most people just get on the plane and think they've gotten fatter or that the squeeze is the same no matter what plane they fly in. THAT's the problem.

 

[codash1099]

Renaming may be on the cards:

Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

Decision fuels speculation that troubled plane will be rebranded once it is given all clear to fly

www.theguardian.com

 

[oz_mark]

Could just be a Ryanair thing as well.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

Could just be a Ryanair thing as well.

It's in line with IAG, which only talked about the 737-8 and 737-10 and didn't use the word MAX.

 

[oz_mark]

It's in line with IAG, which only talked about the 737-8 and 737-10 and didn't use the word MAX.

IAG may not have said MAX, but the Boeing press release referred to them as MAX.

 

[AviatorInsight]

The MAX name has always been a marketing thing. No where in any manual does it state MAX. It'll always be written as 737-8, -10, etc.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

Although the ICAO code is B38M/B39M and the IATA code is 7M8/7M9. So while MAX isn't in the owner's manual, it's in other places and not just the marketing material.

 

[Quickstatus]

They would if they knew there was an actual choice. Most people just get on the plane and think they've gotten fatter or that the squeeze is the same no matter what plane they fly in. THAT's the problem.

If there was a choice. There generally wont be a like for like choice.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If there was a choice. There generally wont be a like for like choice.

Maybe not in Oz, but across Asia, USA, Europe there'll often be a like for like.

 

[OATEK]

Testimony to Congress:

Boeing crash: I miss them every minute

Paul Njoroge, who lost his whole family in the 10 March Boeing crash, gives emotional testimony to US Congress.

www.bbc.com

 

[jenib]

Here is a link to a much longer recording of the testimony including questions afterwards link

 

[juddles]

Question for the avid 737-MAX issue people - I have, for no particular reason, been doing a check on my phone via the ap flightradar24 whenever I have to kill a few minutes. In my regular checks is to see what 737-MAX aircraft are airborne. 99% of the time this can reveal one or two in north west USA, where they clearly are shuffling them around for storage, etc. But quite a few times I have seen an aircraft (using the flightradar filter) that shows one flying within China. Is this an error in plane information, or could there be any reason that some get moved around China?

 

[serfty]

NY Times opinion article suggest changes need to be made to US regulatory structure/FAA.

Opinion | The Boeing 737 Max Crisis Is a Leadership Failure (Published 2019)

Safety begins at the top, and the top officials at Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration have let us down.

www.nytimes.com

Boeing’s stubborn resistance to admit its mistakes — even as those mistakes have delayed the return to operation of 737 Max planes by several months, according to The Wall Street Journal — are turning into a disaster for the company and its customers. Some of the families of the victims testified before Congress on Wednesday.

Even worse, Boeing has found a willing partner in the F.A.A., which allowed the company to circumvent standard certification processes so it could sell aircraft more quickly. Boeing’s inadequate regard for safety and the F.A.A.’s complicity display an unconscionable lack of leadership at both organizations.

 

[Ansett]

One has to wonder what issues other Aircraft in the Boeing range have been hidden by the company and the FAA. thinking 787 and now the new 777 about to be released.

What new technology is coming to the 777 and how will this effect pilot training requirements when converting from one series to the next will it too be minimal and put passengers at risk as per the 737 debacle.