Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

Of course l, there is "certification" and there is "certification".

One instance of "certification" may mandate Sim. training - which is not what Boeing want.
 
I can see US dom market only as poss option. South West obviously has significant exposure though they apparently looked at Airbus but decided to wait and see. Boeing might have to get those 757 jigs out of storage...those max engines would just about fit...

The 757 was originally envisaged as replacing the 737. It would have been quite possible to make a smaller (pax load) version, and the larger version was called the 767. But, it’s now a ship that has long sailed. Even if the jigs still exist, it’s too heavy, and even with modern engines would not be capable of getting near the 321NEO’s economy. It would have to be at least the equivalent technology wise as the 330 NEO, and Boeing just aren’t capable of developing that in any sort of reasonable timeframe. It’s worth noting that since the current management style became ascendant at Boeing, that they have not managed to bring one aircraft to fruition without major issues. Their last classic Boeing aircraft was the 777, in the early 90s. Everything since then (787, 747-8, MAX, KC-46) has been a disaster.

Of course l, there is "certification" and there is "certification".

One instance of "certification" may mandate Sim. training - which is not what Boeing want.

There’s certification, and there’s endorsements. If the aircraft cannot be certified, then it won’t fly. Of course that won’t happen, but it remains to be seen just what is going to be needed for it to get airborne again. I think it’s probably pretty obvious that it’s more than dud MCAS software logic that‘s the problem. One issue that has to be faced is that if the MCAS is turned off, then it now appears that the aircraft flight characteristics are unacceptable. So, you need to be able to turn MCAS off, but if MCAS can be turned off, then that also makes it uncertifiable. Boeing were pushing the line that MCAS was to make it feel more like the older 737s, in which case MCAS is not actually needed, but there is now doubt about that, and what was supposedly the smaller issue, that of unacceptable pitch up characteristics, is really the reason behind it.

The Europeans are pushing for the inclusion of a third AoA probe, and third computer, to triplicate the system. That would give proper failure redundancy. Boeing want to synthetically calculate some form of check. This is another point at which grandfathering meets modern rules. The original 737 had no form of digital FBW, and yet MCAS is, sort of. But, it‘s been slipped in without obeying any of the requirements FBW has to meet.

The aircraft is very substantially different to earlier 737s. It should never have even been considered eligible for co-endorsement. Basically MAX pilots should fly MAX, and not the other 737 models (and vice versa). That would upset many of the buyers, and the cost could well push them to AB. But, AB are unlikely to be able to fill additional orders anyway, so the point is moot.
 
Do you see the COMAC C919 being a serious competitor of the MAX at some stage ?

If it's even half reasonable, I expect that they'll eventually manage to carve out an appreciable chunk of the market. The weakness of the 737 is an opening they couldn't have dreamt of.
 
It will, of course, be recertified by the US. Australia will follow suit, so as not to upset the US. UK perhaps. Europe...especially seeing Airbus have been hit with tariffs, might be rather more inclined to looking deeply. China and Russia...who knows, but it won’t be a rubber stamp. I could easily imagine the MAX ending up country specific.

I did read somewhere that Australia was inclined to take the lead of the Eurpoeans.
 
Wow, this plane must be cursed.


So much for the excellence in training the US airlines have:

In recent simulator tests with crews from American, Southwest and United Airlines as well as Aeromexico, many pilots did not use the prescribed emergency procedures to handle problems with the flights, raising the possibility that regulators could mandate flight simulator training or change the procedures before clearing the plane to fly. The F.A.A. is evaluating Boeing’s analysis of the testing.
 
So much for the excellence in training the US airlines have:
In recent simulator tests with crews from American, Southwest and United Airlines as well as Aeromexico, many pilots did not use the prescribed emergency procedures to handle problems with the flights, raising the possibility that regulators could mandate flight simulator training or change the procedures before clearing the plane to fly. The F.A.A. is evaluating Boeing’s analysis of the testing.

But what does that actually mean? I think we've all discovered over the past few months that some of Boeing's procedures are little more than wishful thinking, so perhaps having the pilots come up with workarounds is not all that surprising.

When QF30 happened, one of the items in the emergency checklist involved closing both isolation valves. That has the effect of dividing the duct that carries bleed air across the aircraft into three sections. All three have packs, but only two have a bleed supply, so this results in the shutdown of the centre pack. The procedure exists in case the source of the depressurisation is a failure of the duct. We initially closed the valves as required, but only a short time later decided that the issue was not the duct, and that we wanted the all of the packs back. So, going against the procedures is something that you may well need to do. Training people to be robots will not help.
 
From today's Oz (paywalled - this is the entire piece)

Boeing recommends 737 MAX simulator training

Boeing said it will urge regulators to require 737 MAX simulator training for pilots prior to clearing the jet to return to service.

The aviation giant, which has been roiled by a nine-month grounding of the plane following two deadly crashes, had previously argued that pilots needed only computer-based training.

The announcement was the first major shift in approach since the company replaced its chief executive in late December.

Focus now turns to the US Federal Aviation Administration, which had previously resisted calls by Canadian and European regulators for the additional pilot training before returning the aircraft to the skies.

“Safety is Boeing’s top priority,” Boeing’s acting Chief Executive Greg Smith said in a statement.
 
Readable article on CNBC - Boeing is recommending pilots be required to complete simulator training as part of the recertification work. This is a reverse from Boeing’s position under the recently departed CEO Dennis Muilenburg, which had fought pilots’ recommendations for sim work.

There are only a few MAX simulators in existence, so that will likely slow the return of the aircraft to commercial service as well.

 
Well, let's read between the lines.

Boeing have given up on the various regulators letting them get away with what was, frankly, b/s with regard to iPad training. They're going to have to pay Southwest and others whatever sim penalties exist.

But, this narrative is about trying to have some level of control over whatever the regulators want. For a company that thought iPads would tick the box, it's not very likely that they've suddenly come to realise that the coughpit and procedures are so different that it requires a proper endorsement. My guess would be that they are pushing for an hour, perhaps two in the sim. Which is still trivia. Hopefully the regulators are looking more at something in the order of 20 hours.

Their greatest fear is almost certainly that it will be a different and not "co" endorsement. If I were a regulator that's exactly what it would be. There would be MAX pilots, and 737 pilots, and you would not mix the types.

They are still playing games.
 
Their greatest fear is almost certainly that it will be a different and not "co" endorsement. If I were a regulator that's exactly what it would be. There would be MAX pilots, and 737 pilots, and you would not mix the types.

They are still playing games.
Have you considered trying to get work in the field? ;)
 
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Pondering when there will be any new "good news" about Boeing, not just the MAX......

https://futurism.com/the-byte/boeing-737-glitch-shuts-down-coughpit-screens
 
Pondering when there will be any new "good news" about Boeing, not just the MAX......

https://futurism.com/the-byte/boeing-737-glitch-shuts-down-coughpit-screens

I am sure I read that this morning, but it included the 787 (which required a power cycle every ~200ish days), and the A350, which was a power cycle every ~180ish hours to avoid some systems shutting down in flight.
 
I am sure I read that this morning, but it included the 787 (which required a power cycle every ~200ish days), and the A350, which was a power cycle every ~180ish hours to avoid some systems shutting down in flight.


Different problem... more details on this screen blanking...appears to be "coordinate based" software bug.

 
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Software bugs like this have always existed. Every now and then, most of us find one. Generally they're little more than an annoyance, and if reported, are normally fixed. There was actually a bug in the very early 747-400 software that could make all of the screens fail in turn. I never heard just what was causing it, but I did see it one night. Thankfully, it cured itself after a couple of minutes.
 
You lost all at once?

No. They disappeared over a few minutes, but came back all of a sudden.

It was within the first few months of the -400 operation. One of the Captains had mentioned to me, that if you ever see one of the screens starting to fade, to be wary, as he'd seen that as a prelude to all of them failing.

So, we were about 400 nm south west of Honolulu, going to LA. The Captain was on his break. My PFD started to fade, and eventually flicked to black and white. This took about a minute. Then it dropped out entirely, and the attitude display automatically jumped to the NAV display's position. Short pause and it started to fade too, and soon repeated the sequence.

So, now, no screens on the FO's side (I don't recall what the centre screens did). And then the SO pipes up with "You won't want to hear this, but...". His two screens failed very rapidly, probably with 30 seconds or so. Autopilot stayed engaged, and according to the standby AI, nothing was happening. No warnings. That was really curious, as the system had detected something to make the screen information jump across displays.

Having told the SO not to touch anything, and taken note of exactly which way Honolulu was, we called the Captain. He came up and sat in the middle seat, where he could see what was going on. As he started to sit down, we had no screens. By the time his backside hit the seat, they all instantly reappeared. It all behaved normally for the rest of the flight, and I never heard anything more about anything similar.
 
Having told the SO not to touch anything, and taken note of exactly which way Honolulu was, we called the Captain. He came up and sat in the middle seat, where he could see what was going on. As he started to sit down, we had no screens. By the time his backside hit the seat, they all instantly reappeared. It all behaved normally for the rest of the flight, and I never heard anything more about anything similar.

Even so, I still would’ve required new underwear.
 

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