Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[codash1099]

And now the penalties:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/boeing-agrees-to-pay-25-billion-to-resolve-federal-criminal-charge-over-737-max-conspiracy/2021/01/07/4a090fdc-512d-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

(May be paywalled, but you get the picture!)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And now the penalties:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/boeing-agrees-to-pay-25-billion-to-resolve-federal-criminal-charge-over-737-max-conspiracy/2021/01/07/4a090fdc-512d-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

(May be paywalled, but you get the picture!)

It is paywalled... but your link makes it look like $25 billion... just for clarity it's actually $2.5 billion. Not much for a company like Boeing

 

[Happy Trails]

Non-paywalled article here:

Boeing to pay $3.2 billion in 737 MAX settlement

The settlement with the US Justice Department follows a two-year probe.

www.executivetraveller.com

 

[jb747]

So most of it goes to their airline customers, and I expect a fair bit of that will find its way back to Boeing. An almost piddling amount to the families of the victims.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So most of it goes to their airline customers, and I expect a fair bit of that will find its way back to Boeing. An almost piddling amount to the families of the victims.

So it works out to about USD1.5 million per passenger, from Boeing. But the families may have been able to sue for compensation from the airlines as well. How much there would depend on the issue of negligence and whether covered by Montreal. Under Montreal there's an initial payout regardless of negligence, and more if negligence can be shown.

 

[Happy Trails]

A former senior manager at Boeing's 737 plant in Seattle has raised new concerns over the safety of the company's 737 Max.

The aircraft, which was grounded after two accidents in which 346 people died, has already been cleared to resume flights in North America and Brazil, and is expected to gain approval in Europe this week.

In his report, Mr Pierson claims that regulators and investigators have largely ignored factors, which he believes, may have played a direct role in the accidents.

His report draws on material from the official investigations. It claims that both of the crashed aircraft suffered from - what he believes were - production defects, almost from the moment they entered service.

Boeing 737 Max cleared to fly again 'too early'

A former Boeing manager says more investigations are needed on the plane, grounded after two crashes.

www.bbc.com

 

[Brissy1]

Federal prosecutors plan to criminally charge a former Boeing Co. pilot they suspect of misleading aviation regulators about safety issues blamed for two fatal crashes of the 737 Max, according to people familiar with the matter

Former Boeing pilot expected to face charges in 737 Max investigation

Federal prosecutors plan to criminally charge a former Boeing Co. pilot they suspect of misleading aviation regulators about safety issues blamed for two...

www.marketwatch.com

 

[Quickstatus]

But no criminal prosecution of the people higher up.
Where does the buck stop?. I would be surprised that it stopped with the pilot.

 

[cambriamarsh]

But no criminal prosecution of the people higher up.
Where does the buck stop?. I would be surprised that it stopped with the pilot.

Plea bargain. Turn state's evidence for immunity?

 

[jb747]

But no criminal prosecution of the people higher up.
Where does the buck stop?. I would be surprised that it stopped with the pilot.

Of course it does. Airlines and regulators simply write a rule that says "don't crash". Then if you do, hopefully you're conveniently dead, and obviously you broke the rules.

 

[Quickstatus]

And so it comes down to pointing the finger at only one person.

Never mind that the FAA administrator at the time of the MAX evaluation, had no experience in the aviation industry...

 

[jakeseven7]

Documentary on the 737 Max-murderer as some people call it coming out shortly!

 

[kpc]

Documentary on the 737 Max-murderer as some people call it coming out shortly!

On Netflix Feb 18....will look out for it

 

[kpc]

On Netflix Feb 18....will look out for it

Just watched it...Boeing does not come out in a good light!

 

[straitman]

I have not watched it yet but will.

I have had interesting feedback from within the aviation community re the MAX.
Some say heads have rolled, it’s fixed and time to move forward whereas others say a lot more needs to be done.
From a passenger perspective, having recently flown on one from NAN - MEL there is no real difference.

 

[jb747]

From a passenger perspective, having recently flown on one from NAN - MEL there is no real difference.

Yes, but from a passenger perspective, there never will be.

As far as I can tell, only a couple of superficial things have been done, with the major issues untouched. It would have been a really nice aircraft in 1965.

 

[jb747]

On Netflix Feb 18....will look out for it

I’ve just watched the documentary. Best documentary that I’ve seen relating to aviation in a long time.

 

[stm1sydney]

Yes, very interesting doc, and damning for Boeing. It seemed to me to end abruptly, and skim over the fact that the MAX has since been recertified, presumably because it is now safe. I would have liked the experts previously interviewed to have analysed that. That's the key question for me now.

 

[Berlin]

It seemed to me to end abruptly, and skim over the fact that the MAX has since been recertified, presumably because it is now safe. I would have liked the experts previously interviewed to have analysed that. That's the key question for me now.

Same here- was a good little documentary but it wasn't really new news. I'd like to know how the heck this aircraft got rectified. Surely, if even the Chinese let it fly again, there must have been some significant fixes? Or not, jb's comment further up sounds like this is indeed not the case which is just shocking to me.

Does this mean it's just a case of time/ pot luck until the next of these falls from the skies?

 

[jb747]

What did they fix? Basically they played with the software. They’ve limited the ability to continually reactivate, as well as reducing the amount (i.e. power) of the possible movement. It also now requires agreement between the two AoA systems. There were fixes to unrelated wiring systems.

What would I want?
1. Triple AoA system with agreement required from all three.
2. Reactivation of the stab trim cutout if the control column is moved in the opposite direction. This exists in virtually every other (non FBW) Boeing aircraft, but was removed from the Max.
3. Backup ELECTRIC trim. The days of a manual trim wheel, that does not have enough mechanical authority to move at all, at high speed, should have ended decades ago.
4. MCAS OFF switch on the coaming, right next to the master caution!

I’d probably like to hear an admission that the issue is not one of ‘stall prevention’. The aircraft obviously has an unacceptable pitch couple at high AoA and high power settings, so MCAS isn’t about making it stall proof, but all about gaining certification.