[fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in Business under $850

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

Yes - that law student (which he is) actually went on to say in a later post he is a contract lawyer. Big difference between the two (and the latter is actually illegal to call yourself a lawyer when you're not).

However that aside... it just struck me that there is another major get out to this which has not been mentioned. As this is due to a currency fluctuation, around which (being Burma) there is undoubtedly much uncertainty (when, where, how etc etc), the airlines and agents might rightly claim that this 'mistake' is outside their control as it is entirely due to the Burmese government and when/how they effect the currency change.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I accept that to a degree but the MMK was floated at the begining of April (2nd from memory), they had the rest of the month to sort out the new fx rates. Indeeed this seemed to be exactly what SILKAIR did in April. It that sense it is not a mistake fare. the fare was the same in April as it was in May, the only difference was the fx rate. When I first arrived here from the EU the GBP:AUD rate was about 0.45:1. It is now about 0.63:1. When you apply this fx change to airfares they have almost doubled in price over the intervening period, this has been discussed at length on AFF and I dont propose to go into it again (airfares originating in UK as opposed to AU on the same route).

Should QF discount the airfare so that is costs the same where ever is it bought? Possibly, but it doesn't. And lets not forget that the fx movement have been very good to us living and working with AUD over the past few years. Would the buy miles programmes on AA, US or BMI be anywhere near as attractive if the AUD was anywhere near its long term historical averages? GBP:AUD:USD between 1997 and 2007 was about 0.4:1:0.5.

 

[Danger]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

b) these fares are the result of the currency fluxuation that was mentioned here a few weeks ago, however these have only been active on the net since the first of the month as I believe that this is when the airlines updated the forex rates (based on a coversation with Thai after the Silkair fare was pulled).

No, not currency fluctuations. I believe it's due to a revaluation of the Myanmar currency that occurred on 1 April The Nation ::: Breaking News ::: - Myanmar sweeps with currency reform!. I think that's a significant difference.

Since 1 April that the currency has hardly moved (certainly not in relation to the AUD and USD).

However that aside... it just struck me that there is another major get out to this which has not been mentioned. As this is due to a currency fluctuation, around which (being Burma) there is undoubtedly much uncertainty (when, where, how etc etc), the airlines and agents might rightly claim that this 'mistake' is outside their control as it is entirely due to the Burmese government and when/how they effect the currency change.

I don't think that would be a valid 'get out' clause for the airlines or agents. As I said, it's not a fluctuation. In the first day or two (or even three) after the revaluation, that may well have been a valid reason for not honouring fares. But, as I noted above, the value to the AUD and USD since that time basically resembles a heart rate monitor on a corpse: flat.

And as this thread (rather than the 36-odd hour old FT thread) highlights, the alleged discrepancy has been live for many, many days. Caveat emptor? Well, I say whatever the opposite is for the airlines: seller beware.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I take the point, I didn't realise it was revalued on 1 April. that makes a difference. although I would have expected some leeway in a third world country between the official change over and when banks and priavte industry were able to change over their systems to match. a week maybe, but 4 weeks is pushing it. if the airlines were having trouble with the new currency they could have priced in US dollars by now.

 

[Danger]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I take the point, I didn't realise it was revalued on 1 April. that makes a difference. although I would have expected some leeway in a third world country between the official change over and when banks and priavte industry were able to change over their systems to match. a week maybe, but 4 weeks is pushing it. if the airlines were having trouble with the new currency they could have priced in US dollars by now.

Agree. Or pulled ex-RGN/Myanmar fares from sale or noted on the respective websites that due to a currency change/technical glitch/whatever that travellers ex-RGN are asked to call us for a booking.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

No, not currency fluctuations. I believe it's due to a revaluation of the Myanmar currency that occurred on 1 April The Nation ::: Breaking News ::: - Myanmar sweeps with currency reform!. I think that's a significant difference.

Since 1 April that the currency has hardly moved (certainly not in relation to the AUD and USD).

Surely the revaluation caused the flux. I don't deal in fx so I am not fully aware of the ins and outs of this but the rate was 6.5:1 on March 31 as compared to the 2nd of April where it was 814:1 at a local fx place that would wire the money to Myanmar.

I tried to get a ticket purchased in Yangon and in MMK but I was not able to. They appear to restrict airline purchases to USD for foreigners; rather than MMK. It now also appears that the airlines are finally re-pricing their flights in MMK to reflect more accepted levels.

 

[Danger]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

Surely the revaluation caused the flux. I don't deal in fx so I am not fully aware of the ins and outs of this but the rate was 6.5:1 on March 31 as compared to the 2nd of April where it was 814:1 at a local fx place that would wire the money to Myanmar.

I tried to get a ticket purchased in Yangon and in MMK but I was not able to. They appear to restrict airline purchases to USD for foreigners; rather than MMK. It now also appears that the airlines are finally re-pricing their flights in MMK to reflect more accepted levels.

A flux of a day or two would probably be acceptable, particularly given currency revaluations are uncommon. But a month down the track? Someone's not doing their job or a computer system has failed. Regardless, given the significant lapse of time (since the fares noted in this thread were purchased, at least), I fail to see how a 'system error' or 'currency conversion issue' could be accepted as a valid excuse, particularly given, a month later, similar fares are still being sold.

From xe.com

 

[alieninperth]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

totally agree, there is no excuse. I still can't see any law suit being successful though.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

totally agree, there is no excuse. I still can't see any law suit being successful though.

I agree on the lawsuit. This is clearly a mistake. The currency change has caused this and the airlines/agents are still pricing at the old rate. It is not intended to sell fares for $400 in F to anywhere (actually the base fare is even smaller, taxes and fees are the biggie... although why the taxes and fees are priced correctly and the base fare is not is another matter).

While a mistake if successfully argued would void the contract from the outset, if that didn't get legs then the airline/agency can still cancel the contract and leave the passenger to sue for breach. Specific performance is not often awarded by courts, especially in cases like this where there could be a loss of many thousands of dollars (talking more generally here about tickets issued with multiple carriers rather than just on SQ/MI).

So then it is up to the pax to prove their loss. Incidentals (such as non ref connecting flights) might well be on the table.

Where it is a case of SQ/MI only, that could be slightly different. There is no real 'loss' to the airline in honouring the fare. It is their own metal and they could carry you without being out of pocket.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I think that that taxes are levied in the currency of the country charging it. So GBP for the LHR tax. This then converts to AUD or whatever in the final price. That is certainly how the taxes show on ITA.

 

[Austman]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

This is clearly a mistake.

But why is it so clear? I have over my years of travel been sold lots of low (sometimes virtually no cost) airfares including 4-hour trans-Europe flights for AUD 0.20 (twenty cents) which were an airline promo but I found it on the internet. That offer proportionally makes the ex RGN MI/SQ fares in J look bad! And I got Northern Europe to SE Asia for under AUD200.00 return. That one was later advertised in local papers. And many others.

Low cost, sometimes almost zero cost airfares have existed for years. They are sometimes put on the internet and sometimes later even advertised by the airline.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I think that that taxes are levied in the currency of the country charging it. So GBP for the LHR tax. This then converts to AUD or whatever in the final price. That is certainly how the taxes show on ITA.

thank - I had forgotten that!

But why is it so clear? I have over my years of travel been sold lots of low (sometimes virtually no cost) airfares including 4-hour trans-Europe flights for AUD 0.20 (twenty cents) which were an airline promo but I found it on the internet. That offer proportionally makes the ex RGN MI/SQ fares in J look bad! And I got Northern Europe to SE Asia for under AUD200.00 return. That one was later advertised in local papers. And many others.

Low cost, sometimes almost zero cost airfares have existed for years. They are sometimes put on the internet and sometimes later even advertised by the airline.

It is obviously a mistake because 20c business and first class fares simply don't exist in the real world. Just about every lay traveller thinks business and first class fares are expensive. Just look at the number of posts on AFF where people say 'our budget doesn't extend to flying business class'. Many are genuinely surprised you can pick up a deal for $3500 to Europe for example. First class - many consider that completely out of their range (even if they haven't done the research). Compare that with low cost carriers where the $0 fare (but pay taxes) is well known.

So when a fare comes along for $400 in First class, on a premium carrier such as SQ, that would ring bells with many people. Even the US Airways deal puts many people off because they think it is too good to be true, despite three years and hundreds of posted examples of successful itineraries. Some just refuse to believe it, or think it will be too hard.

There may be a case where a genuine flyer has bought this fare and is completely unaware it is a mistake. But the fact that there are 100+ pages on FT, and 28+ pages on here all acknowledging this is an anomaly pretty much goes to prove it is an error.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

But why is it so clear? I have over my years of travel been sold lots of low (sometimes virtually no cost) airfares including 4-hour trans-Europe flights for AUD 0.20 (twenty cents) which were an airline promo but I found it on the internet. That offer proportionally makes the ex RGN MI/SQ fares in J look bad! And I got Northern Europe to SE Asia for under AUD200.00 return. That one was later advertised in local papers. And many others.

Low cost, sometimes almost zero cost airfares have existed for years. They are sometimes put on the internet and sometimes later even advertised by the airline.

in economy class yes, not for premium travel on major airlines.

 

[Austman]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I have travelled in premium classes for around AUD1,000.00 several times. Including twice in the past 12 months, bought directly from the airline's website. Including airlines such as Cathay Pacific. And the fares were not errors. They can very much depend on where you purchased them/where the travel originated. None of these trips originated in Australia, but one of them finished in Australia.

So to say that it's clearly an error is a bit wrong. Airlines have 'strange' pricing polices in different countries.

The 20cent fare was simply to demonstrate that airlines do offer absolute bargain fares from time to time. And some airlines offer bargain premium class fares too from time to time.

But it's now after the event, when it does seem that it was an error. How long would be reasonable for an the airline to point out the error? With the MI/SQ fares it's been 3 weeks. I would think a major world airline like SQ would have the resources to point out fare errors in much less than 3 weeks.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I have travelled in premium classes for around AUD1,000.00 several times. Including twice in the past 12 months, bought directly from the airline's website. Including airlines such as Cathay Pacific. And the fares were not errors. They can very much depend on where you purchased them/where the travel originated. None of these trips originated in Australia, but one of them finished in Australia.

cool, so return tickets involving flights from one side of the earth to the other? please share

 

[oz_mark]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

A flux of a day or two would probably be acceptable, particularly given currency revaluations are uncommon. But a month down the track? Someone's not doing their job or a computer system has failed. Regardless, given the significant lapse of time (since the fares noted in this thread were purchased, at least), I fail to see how a 'system error' or 'currency conversion issue' could be accepted as a valid excuse, particularly given, a month later, similar fares are still being sold.

I don't have a complete handle on how Rates of Exchange are done in the airline industry, but it is my understanding that ROE's used in fare constructions are set monthly.

I can see how things may take a month to flow through.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I have travelled in premium classes for around AUD1,000.00 several times. Including twice in the past 12 months, bought directly from the airline's website. Including airlines such as Cathay Pacific. And the fares were not errors. They can very much depend on where you purchased them/where the travel originated. None of these trips originated in Australia, but one of them finished in Australia.

So to say that it's clearly an error is a bit wrong. Airlines have 'strange' pricing polices in different countries.

The 20cent fare was simply to demonstrate that airlines do offer absolute bargain fares from time to time. And some airlines offer bargain premium class fares too from time to time.

But it's now after the event, when it does seem that it was an error. How long would be reasonable for an the airline to point out the error? With the MI/SQ fares it's been 3 weeks. I would think a major world airline like SQ would have the resources to point out fare errors in much less than 3 weeks.

'Reasonableness' very little to do with breach of contract. Any party can breach a contract (any contract - not just airline tickets) at any time they choose. It is then for the aggreived party to seek any remedies for that breach, whether that be under contract law, or under consumer law, or under some other applicable law (such as the many conventions in place for air travel).

CX fares ex TPE and ICN are cheap, and there are plenty of other bargains out there on highly competitive routes such as BKK-HKG or even SYD-AKL but they are usually relative to the distance and competition. If you saw a fare for $30 SYD-AKL in business class you would think that would be an error of sorts.

oz_mark - interesting point you raise regarding the ROE's - I actually thought it was weekly... so I discounted that as a reason for this error. (I know in the past I took advantage of this when the aussie plunged 5 or 6c within a week, but the airlines were still on the old rate!)

 

[Danger]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

I find it interesting that some of the recent (last couple of days; not the ones the basis for this thread) fares are still bookable. Cheapoair still has RGN . . . JNB for USD1200 in a mix of Y and J return. That seems to be the last remaining destination.

A friend booked one of these JNB fares on cheapoair a little over 24 hours ago. The cancellation email came through after about 20 hours - yet they're still live. I'm not IT guru but surely it can't be that hard to pull RGN as an origin.

 

[Austman]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

'Reasonableness' very little to do with breach of contract. Any party can breach a contract (any contract - not just airline tickets) at any time they choose. It is then for the aggreived party to seek any remedies for that breach, whether that be under contract law, or under consumer law, or under some other applicable law (such as the many conventions in place for air travel).

CX fares ex TPE and ICN are cheap, and there are plenty of other bargains out there on highly competitive routes such as BKK-HKG or even SYD-AKL but they are usually relative to the distance and competition. If you saw a fare for $30 SYD-AKL in business class you would think that would be an error of sorts.

Anyone can breach a contract at any time. Really, anyone can do anything at anytime too. The statement is a bit silly.

Just as a random example, go to the Cathay Pacific's website and book a round trip in J for CMB-MEL-CMB in June. That's a 15,014 miles journey (it's via SIN/BKK and HKG and stopovers are allowed) and the cost is LKR 93,228.00 (AUD 2,285.83). Then book J for MEL-CMB-MEL and note the cost is now AUD 7,759.34 (same route/service/FF miles etc). RGN-SIN-LHR-SIN-RGN (as offered by MI/SQ) is a similar distance of 15,922 miles.

These are not even special CX fares! So a fare of around AUD 1,000.00 is not that rediculous - it's a half price special offer. And it's a fare out of RGN, not AKL.

 

[Alanslegal]

Re: [fare gone] Yangon to New York, London etc. R/T in C < $800

Anyone can breach a contract at any time. Really, anyone can do anything at anytime too. The statement is a bit silly.

It isn't silly at all. It is very correct that any party to a contract can breach that contract at any time, and correctly said as well, that it is up to the individual/entity who feels aggrieved to pursue their chose of action.