Farewell QFF

[Creston]

Dear Mr Joyce,
I am writing an open letter to you and your team in the hope that you will re-visit your stategy and treatment of loyal QFF's. Hopefully that day is not too far in the future, as you may find no one left to listen, or worse, no one left to even care.

You have finally succeded in pushing this loyal Qantas fan and loyal Qantas Frequent Flyer too far, and I have just converted some of my cards to earn non Qantas points. I feel only by cancelling my automatic Qantas points accruing cards will anybody in your office start to take notice. And I make sure the credit card companies know why I am switching.

I will state some of my frustrations below, but if your marketing team is doing their job, they already have the information at hand, which makes me believe that Qantas does not care about their frequent flyer. (Forum members have been saying this for years, but I, like your team, always turned a deaf ear to the noises).

I know nothing about how an airline works, but I know what works for the ordinary frequent flyer. How hard can it be to to develop a website that is useful, rather than the pathetic web site you are currently using? Many a time my heart beats faster when I see the rare and almost impossible to find yellowish icon stating a business seat is available, only to click 50 more steps to realise it is for a segment of the booking for a 1 hour flight, and the other 27 hours is actually in economy? (These days my heart beats fatser if I even manage to see an increasingly rare red icon!!) Why would you allocate premium seating to the caterers first cousin from his second wifes third husband, instead of to your loyal frequent flyer members? (My brother in law manages to get a business class seat for a few hundred dollars due to his family connection in catering and I fly economy paying thousands of dollars, whilst banking millions of (useless?) points is not fun. Actually to be frank, it is a slap in the face).

Is the intention so we spend points on the Qantas store rather than on a Qantas plane? My friends always manage to fly business class with your competition using their points, whilst I have to be content with yet another Dyson from the Qantas store?

As a business owner myself, I know the value of existing loyal customers, and I also know that once they decide to swtch, it is virtually impossible to get them back.

Mr Joyce, you and your team need to change direction before it is too late. I read somewhere that the QFF division is one of the most profitable parts of the group. If this is correct, you need to retain your loyal QFF's, whether they earn you money on the ground via credit card spend, via flying, or via walking. Once they realise that it is quite easy to switch sides, you will need to work very hard indeed to win them back.

 

[ChrisMars]

I am a big Qantas fanboy, and this month is my first credit card statement with my first non Qantas branded card. 188k citi reward (very fast signup bonus!). Feels good, and also sad, but mostly good. Should be ready to switch to VA once I drop gold with qantas. Gold is so useless, if I was Velocity, I would run another switcheroo, matching Qantas gold -> VA red

 

[AndyC1970]

I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat - contemplating de-coupling from QF all together. The new Star Alliance credit card with HSBC is going to be a game changer. QF have been treating their customers with contempt since boarders re-opened. I have been trying for 6 months to get a ticketing issue on a reward ticket entirely caused by Qantas fixed. I have been so unsucecessful that I have given up trying. Reward flights (one of the main benefits of being a QFF) are a complete lottery. No number of 'customer announcements' or puff pieces in the fawning media are going to quell the white hot anger many many frequent flyers feel at the moment. This long time fan boy is done and I am divorcing QF!

 

[Pug1]

Agree with all the above sentiments but in reality, their flights are pretty full at the moment and the shareholders are happy. So why should the CEO and the board care? The crunch will come when there is more capacity, and we all have other suitable options. My wife and I have been booked Perth to Canberra via Melbourne for months. This week Qantas suddenly changed our flights to earlier ones via Adelaide, and departing Perth at the same time as we flew into Perth from Broome? When I checked, the original flights were still available albeit at slightly later times. The flights were booked by Amex using my credit card annual Qantas credit, but I did not have any contact from Qantas or Amex about the changes. So, if I hadn't checked we would have arrived in Perth to waive our Canberra flights goodbye! I've been a Qantas club life member since 1990 and am disgusted with their awful customer service nowadays. Will most likely use up all my credits and points and switch, like the members above.

 

[doctorstrangelove]

Welcome to the club. I never successfully managed to redeem QFF points on Qantas Metal premium international cabins to Europe during my 4 years earning them but with enough perseverance and flexibility I could usually find a suitable EK or QA substitute to book through. With the now extortionate carrier charges on the former and the curtailed opening dates for availability on the latter I made the decision to cancel my Qantas CCs and switch to Velocity earning CCs 2 months ago with the hope of using them for SQ flights to Europe eventually. I'd imagine I'll still continue earning 20,000-30,000 QFF points per year purely based on Woolies spend and if I see a good deal on Qantas wine, but my days of churning CCs for QFF points are over.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

At this particular juncture, I don't see the opposition, ie, VA/VFF having any mojo over QF/QFF.
Both are cheap skates cost cutting at all points along the way, ...
Both of their call centres are majority overseas based, fares are more or less equal or at a par of a few $ in Y.
When you think you have found something that might put you ahead a bit, either airlines, then the other will let you down in another respect.
QF and VA used to have wide bodied planes flying dom, now both are more or less flying narrow, if you think you might have found a wide body QF 330, sooner or later, you will probably find you have been swapped to a 737.
VA fares might be cheaper ADL - PER, but is it worth it flying in a 320, where as with QF, you might get a 737, ADL - PER, but have to pay more.
Food wise on plane, both are cost cutting.
Both have outsourced a lot of their non core activities.
Partner wise, VA used to have (Air)NZ as a partner, but they QF have joined (Air)NZ do to tag on flights onto bookings, but if you don't live in a city where (Air)NZ flies from daily, to get to NZ, you will be paying through the nose to have an (Air)NZ booking with a QF flight tagged on at start or back end of the (Air)NZ flight.
Aud$1900 to fly ADL - east coast with a QF metal (plane) but with an (Air)NZ flight number, through one PNR, and the sitting for ADL - MEL/SYD/BNE is in Y, but the flight from the coast to AKL is in J/premY on (Air)NZ.
Am just waiting for Rex and their FF program to come up, and see if they can do better.
+++

Welcome to the club. I never successfully managed to redeem QFF points on Qantas Metal premium international cabins to Europe during my 4 years earning them but with enough perseverance and flexibility I could usually find a suitable EK or QA substitute to book through. With the now extortionate carrier charges on the former and the curtailed opening dates for availability on the latter I made the decision to cancel my Qantas CCs and switch to Velocity earning CCs 2 months ago with the hope of using them for SQ flights to Europe eventually. I'd imagine I'll still continue earning 20,000-30,000 QFF points per year purely based on Woolies spend and if I see a good deal on Qantas wine, but my days of churning CCs for QFF points are over.

Not QA, Qatar is QR.
If you can bear it, you can buy all your groceries from Coles, and earn VFF points and VFF SC from the Coles and FB linkage.
If you want to totally ignore Woolworths that is.
Buying from Woolworths, you only earn QFF points from the transfer, 2000 EDR points to 1000 QFF points, but not the QFF SC side of things.
With Coles and VFF, you earn VFF points per Coles purchase, but also 10 VFF SC per month, from buying all your groceries and other things from Coles.
Meaning 120 VFF SC towards VFF PS/SG.

 

[lovestotravel]

Share price at $6
1.2 Billion profit forecast for 31 Dec
Planes are full

Massive bonus coming soon prior to his departure, he couldn't care less

A320's coming to lower wages of the pilots from the 737 pool
A350's coming to lower wages of any pilots remaining on the old legacy contracts flying the A380.

AJ and the board are laughing all the way to the bank

I have 1.5 Million QF points and will sadly turn them into gift cards

Haven't flown with QF since before Covid and have spent $20k on VA since

 

[ChrisMars]

... I'd imagine I'll still continue earning 20,000-30,000 QFF points per year purely based on Woolies spend and if I see a good deal on Qantas wine, but my days of churning CCs for QFF points are over....

I am banking for xmas now with woolies. If I can t book J to europe with QFF, I can't value, in my circumstances / usage pattern, a QFF point at (more than) 1 cents anymore. With the bank, I maintain flexibility. EK too much taxes, CX still recovering, AY building it s network away from Russian airspace, QR not releasing seats. It s not looking good for Europe on OW.

Actually coles is closer, I'll start shoping there now.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Shame that Qantas wont care about your open letter at all.

Vote with your feet a better option, although that will also have little impact other than personal satisfaction.

 

[MrJetset]

There are over 12 million QFFers. Money is generated from selling points, but more importantly selling big data.

No offence, but AJ will not see your letter nor will it have any effect.

Your complaint loses all weight when you complain about a staff benefit, available to all airline employees around the World that they can extend to their family.

Try to find an international J class award at the lowest level with VA, BA, SQ or any of the ME3. Covid changed award travel completely and with reduced inventory, increased demand and people still with travel credits and a willingness to pay more for premium the airlines do not need to release more award availability as cabins to and from Australia are flying full. Last month you most EK flights to and from SYD were completely full on all classes.

 

[GrahamBRI]

It is challenge on all metal at the moment with the reduced capacities and all websites have their features and drawbacks in terms of finding what you want......... keep a balanced portfolio of your points across multiple programs, book in advance and understand the features and deficiencies of airline websites and you will find options on a variety of metal (including some QF). I for one still love the hunt and while it is much scarcer, I will keep QF as one of my options.

 

[drron]

I am still finding some classic J awards on AA and SQ. Not as many as they were but better than QF.
Plus check out the threads that detail the difference in response between AA and QF when things go pear shaped. It is why I switched to AAdvantage in 2004. I am glad I didn’t stay wedded to QFF.

 

[J-P]

Qantas values unredeemed points on their balance sheet at 0.7c per point - this is freely and publicly available in their annual report and other releases.

I find it amazing that people think Qantas will make it easy for them to redeem their points at
many multiples of that value on business class reward flights.

 

[ChrisMars]

Qantas values unredeemed points on their balance sheet at 0.7c per point - this is freely and publicly available in their annual report and other releases.

I find it amazing that people think Qantas will make it easy for them to redeem their points at
many multiples of that value on business class reward flights.

Out of curiosity, how do you spend your points?

 

[kpc]

It has been very difficult redeeming Qf points in last 12 months....only have managed Adl-Syd rtn in J x2 for my parents, Syd-Ldh in Y rtn x2 and Syd-Kul rtin in J on MH x2.

 

[@Dav9112]

I am new to all this regarding redeem QF for flights, but I have been doing a lot of research regarding reward seat availability. I am not sure if Qantas is making it harder to redeem premium cabin seats on QF numbered flights. But from what I read so far from publications that Qantas is unique from other airlines that they release seats on their QF numbered flights at different times for different status holders, i.e. allow access to reward seats the higher your airline status. Prioritising platinum -} gold -) silver -) bronze. Which means it's isn't that Qantas is releasing less seats, it's more so people of higher status in general have scooped them all up.

Aside from all the mayhem regarding Qantas operations with baggage and customer service, which is all their fault, I wouldn't think the lacking of reward Qantas seat is Qantas trying to profit or changed from pre-pandemic regarding availability of mental seats/J tickets. Also it wouldn't make sense in my mind that Qantas, would release less reward seat as I am pretty sure who ever does their accounting would ensure they release just enough reward seat will comprising on profit, even in pre-pandemic days. But I am not a frequent flyer of any status other than the lowest, so if you do have higher status it would be interesting to learn that Qantas have released less seat since reopening.

Also also, I was doing a little research on Singapore Airlines on their first class suites a380 to Sydney, which is apparently regarded as the airline that releases quite a lot of rewards and very consistent too, especially with their "advantage" ticket class. I found there isn't any first class seats at all, UNLESS, you wait at till 10am Sydney time of a new day then it will pop up. But very soon, it will be taken up. So it seems to me there is a sizeable reopening high demand element.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

For Aspirationaltraveller, main point is status with QF esp for their international flights.
The higher your QFF status, the better, "usually" the better your chance of an upgrade, esp on QFi flights, where there is a waitlist, and upper status members get first go.
Also you need less points with the more expensive Y fares, the base fare paid by card.
A bit better chances on QFd flights, where if QF puts some J seats in U subclass, you can get a 99% chance of a points upgrade.
I got a J total points burn for 02Jan23 MEL - ADL QFd flight, 20,000 points used, booked a while back, as a Bronze member, not a chance if it was a QFi flight.
Just paid flight taxes with card.

 

[UP4014]

It's very powerful to put your thoughts and comments out there and to the airline direct.

Nothing stays the same and always a moving target, for those who swap airlines and a few years later the green grass has died off and it becomes time to look elsewhere.

QF will read your letter. I don't know how many members, 10m frequent flyers on the books, having people go is par for the course but it needs to reach a tipping point probably with the corporates before obvious action is taken. There will be tweaking around the fringes to keep self funded flyers in the tent.

For the record, I haven't had the issues with QF others have, so I'm not changing whom I fly with at present.

 

[boko56]

Dear Mr Joyce,
I am writing an open letter to you and your team in the hope that you will re-visit your stategy and treatment of loyal QFF's. Hopefully that day is not too far in the future, as you may find no one left to listen, or worse, no one left to even care.

You have finally succeded in pushing this loyal Qantas fan and loyal Qantas Frequent Flyer too far, and I have just converted some of my cards to earn non Qantas points. I feel only by cancelling my automatic Qantas points accruing cards will anybody in your office start to take notice. And I make sure the credit card companies know why I am switching.

I will state some of my frustrations below, but if your marketing team is doing their job, they already have the information at hand, which makes me believe that Qantas does not care about their frequent flyer. (Forum members have been saying this for years, but I, like your team, always turned a deaf ear to the noises).

I know nothing about how an airline works, but I know what works for the ordinary frequent flyer. How hard can it be to to develop a website that is useful, rather than the pathetic web site you are currently using? Many a time my heart beats faster when I see the rare and almost impossible to find yellowish icon stating a business seat is available, only to click 50 more steps to realise it is for a segment of the booking for a 1 hour flight, and the other 27 hours is actually in economy? (These days my heart beats fatser if I even manage to see an increasingly rare red icon!!) Why would you allocate premium seating to the caterers first cousin from his second wifes third husband, instead of to your loyal frequent flyer members? (My brother in law manages to get a business class seat for a few hundred dollars due to his family connection in catering and I fly economy paying thousands of dollars, whilst banking millions of (useless?) points is not fun. Actually to be frank, it is a slap in the face).

Is the intention so we spend points on the Qantas store rather than on a Qantas plane? My friends always manage to fly business class with your competition using their points, whilst I have to be content with yet another Dyson from the Qantas store?

As a business owner myself, I know the value of existing loyal customers, and I also know that once they decide to swtch, it is virtually impossible to get them back.

Mr Joyce, you and your team need to change direction before it is too late. I read somewhere that the QFF division is one of the most profitable parts of the group. If this is correct, you need to retain your loyal QFF's, whether they earn you money on the ground via credit card spend, via flying, or via walking. Once they realise that it is quite easy to switch sides, you will need to work very hard indeed to win them back.

I empathise completely. I have been a loyal customer and QFF since the 80's. I have been trying to contact anyone who cares and more importantly how to fix a ticketing issue that has serious consequences due to my name been spelt wrongly. Numerous call centre call taking many hours, no change, tried the chat at least 4 times, same result, e- mails to Mr Joyce and Stephanie Tully no response. Best of all was a linked in msg to Stephanie no response but after which she promptly barred me from messaging her again. For me they don't care. Just done a status match to Virgin and taking my first flight with them this week. My almost 40 year relationship with Qantas is finished.

 

[mviy]

Best of all was a linked in msg to Stephanie no response but after which she promptly barred me from messaging her again. For me they don't care. Just done a status match to Virgin and taking my first flight with them this week. My almost 40 year relationship with Qantas is finished.

LinkedIn is a social platform for contacting others in the same/related professions for career progression. Whilst it's unfortunate that you were blocked, I don't think it's the right platform for reaching out for assistance. With millions of FFs even an extremely low percentage of these reaching out could still mean she could get a significant number reach out using LinkedIn each day and feel she doesn't have time to deal with those contacts on that channel.

You may/may not find the grass is greener with Virgin.