Feeling ripped off by Virgin advertising - we now serve food and beverage

[dfcatch]

I wonder if there would be any action from VA if some similar comments were posted on Facebook? Freind of mine works for one of the Big Four banks in a senior position. They have a room in their head office in Melb which is like a bunker absolutely filled with screens scrolling with constant FB updates. He told me, believe me when there are derogatory comments about the bank they are all over it. Worth a shot since so many of us are trapped into flying VA for whatever reasons.
Personally I grab a cappuccino & a well filled roll at the airport and they can stick their nuts.

The problems with VA are structural internal problems.

Clearly - JB is capable and has good plans.

He came out of the blocks storming and the rebranding and Game Change Program took off pretty damn well IMHO.

Anyone who flew VA around that time could sense the pride and palpable excitement that crew had for the new airline.

Then..... Something happened and it seems they've been desperately clutching at straws ever since.

The product isn't up to scratch, and as much as we criticize the disconnect between Qantas Loyalty and actual loyalty, VA/VFF has disconnect issues of their own (mainly around the substandard VA product).

FB moaning won't fix it. These aren't "customer care" issues - they're structural management problems.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Then..... Something happened and it seems they've been desperately clutching at straws ever since.

What happened, IMHO, is JB ran out of money. I think he underestimated peoples acceptance of the new product. I agree with you about the game change plan, it all looked very good, but consecutive failures to recognise disruptive issues really hammered him and VA. The J product on the 73Ws which didn't exist yet they still charged for it and then expected people to just "suck it up, princesses", is an arrogance....or stupidity....or both, that people (especially J flyers) don't forget easily or quickly. The trouble was, that was not the first time they tried that cough, they did the same thing with the rogue PE seats, which one would have assumed they would have learned from. Then the newly introduced J product certainly had issues of it's own. The catering and service was not up to standard that people expected. The web site change over was handled atrociously (and is still problematic). They introduced some good ideas but then reneged on them, like ATA and Flexi meals. Having international bookings still through a very ordinary OS call centre is an ongoing problem but what I think really demonstrated their absolute ability to have a brain fart so enormous it caused haemorrhaging, was them shafting their loyal clients which such gusto whilst simultaneously awarding all the VA nobodies with such vigour to make them look nothing better than desperate.....in fact the more disloyal a flyer was to VA, the more they rewarded them. The sick joke that is their current onboard F&B debacle is just the icing on their "world's most bizarre game change plan" cake.

So, I'm not overly surprised that they have no answers. Perhaps they should have asked some of us "past loyal" VA flyers who are now buying the majority of tix on their LCC competition. As I've said, I was loyal....even enthusiastic about VA, but they've successfully lost that. What an achievement. Had they not shafted their existing customer base, but slowly changed and built their new customer base, They may not have needed all the cash that is now dictating the product on offer. Let's face it, Air New Zealand does not have a pristine reputation at helping an Australian airline do anything except go broke!

 

[JohnK]

On the tea and coffee front I suggest that the VA FA's go to the QF FA school and get a lesson on speed catering on short sectors. Honestly...

I find the VA FAs waste a lot of their time on food/beverage purchases asking the other FAs as the carts are poorly organised.

"Can you please get me this?"
"Can you please get me that?"
"Where's the float?"
"Where's the EFTPOS?"

Complimentary or paid. They can't handle both.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I find the VA FAs waste a lot of their time on food/beverage purchases asking the other FAs as the carts are poorly organised.

"Can you please get me this?"
"Can you please get me that?"
"Where's the float?"
"Where's the EFTPOS?"

Complimentary or paid. They can't handle both.

I've noticed this as well....in fact I'd just about suggest it happens on every single flight.

I worry about your last statement. If what we get is the best on offer, all I can say is I really, really hope they don't ditch pay on board. At least I can have a plastic* of wine that way!

* I was about to type glass, until I realised the foolishness of that statement.

 

[Grimace1]

"Where's the EFTPOS?"

I do love getting the "Sorry but the EFTPOS Machine some how didn't make it on to this flight, do you have cash?" but the machine magically appears when someone in the row behind me wants to pay

 

[dfcatch]

What happened, IMHO, is JB ran out of money. I think he underestimated peoples acceptance of the new product. I agree with you about the game change plan, it all looked very good, but consecutive failures to recognise disruptive issues really hammered him and VA. The J product on the 73Ws which didn't exist yet they still charged for it and then expected people to just "suck it up, princesses", is an arrogance....or stupidity....or both, that people (especially J flyers) don't forget easily or quickly. The trouble was, that was not the first time they tried that cough, they did the same thing with the rogue PE seats, which one would have assumed they would have learned from. Then the newly introduced J product certainly had issues of it's own. The catering and service was not up to standard that people expected. The web site change over was handled atrociously (and is still problematic). They introduced some good ideas but then reneged on them, like ATA and Flexi meals. Having international bookings still through a very ordinary OS call centre is an ongoing problem but what I think really demonstrated their absolute ability to have a brain fart so enormous it caused haemorrhaging, was them shafting their loyal clients which such gusto whilst simultaneously awarding all the VA nobodies with such vigour to make them look nothing better than desperate.....in fact the more disloyal a flyer was to VA, the more they rewarded them. The sick joke that is their current onboard F&B debacle is just the icing on their "world's most bizarre game change plan" cake.

So, I'm not overly surprised that they have no answers. Perhaps they should have asked some of us "past loyal" VA flyers who are now buying the majority of tix on their LCC competition. As I've said, I was loyal....even enthusiastic about VA, but they've successfully lost that. What an achievement. Had they not shafted their existing customer base, but slowly changed and built their new customer base, They may not have needed all the cash that is now dictating the product on offer. Let's face it, Air New Zealand does not have a pristine reputation at helping an Australian airline do anything except go broke!

Agree with everything except the status match.

I was top-tier already before the match, and I actually think the match was a brilliant move. Unfortunately for VA - it wasn't backed up by the product.

I'm led to understand that the match program was not nearly as successful as expected, that the numbers matched were fairly pedestrian, and the numbers retained were even more skeletal.

So despite popular myth - it wasn't as successful as it should have been.

And yes - I know some folks are still upset at feeling shafted by the status match program.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Agree with everything except the status match.

I wasn't referring to the status match itself. I too agreed that was a good move, but the continual throwing of status at people who quite obviously were not flying VA enough to retain it. Some got golden SCs for free, others got challenges, others were gifted gold and platinum multiple times and others were given double SC deals (IIRC), whilst many hard earned status members (read me for one) got absolutely nothing. Clients in any business do not like being taken for granted. All the VA marketing clowns had to do, was throw a few crumbs on the ground for the genuine status holders and I'd wager most would have been appreciative. Instead they totally snubbed most of us whilst overtly gifting status over and over to others who were in turn openly criticising the product. What an absolute shambles and a lesson in how not to build a customer base.........greatly annoy the ones you already have and greatly disappoint those you're trying to win! There surely must be a huge number of red faces within VA over that fiasco.

 

[MH_fan]

I thought the status match was a great idea! I used it and now I fly so much more on VA to maintain my status. I rarely receive double SC offers though. The most disappointing aspect of their product is the inclusion of baggage on fares, as it takes away the choice of paying or not paying for it, and the in-flight catering, which is simply a joke. Snacks are ok for non meal time short flights (<2.5 hours) but proper meal time flights need a proper meal appropriate for that time of day and flights longer than 2.5 hours also require a proper meal no matter what time of the day it is.

 

[anat0l]

Going off on a slight tangent here, but after the J retrofit finishes on the A330s and B777s, that might give VA more time to think about where to sink in its next major capital investment. Profit figures at least seem to indicate that whilst they are still in the red, the situation is improving markedly (and not just because of lower fuel prices).

I wonder how much VA makes from in-flight buy-on-board sales these days. Surely it cannot be a trivial amount, particularly on Trans-Tasman (a decision between debating whether to dispose of the idea for full service, or retaining that revenue), but the irony is that the product offering from buy-on-board is more substantial than that of inclusive full service.

Is morale really still low at VA? I find that incredible to believe.

I wonder to what magnitude do people believe the food and drink is an important part of the experience on short haul flights (the golden triangle included). Sometimes we magnify the demands of the average frequent flyer, but other times we miss the point completely, too. Some might complain about the pitiful offerings, but it wouldn't be enough for them to select another (the other) airline, which in effect then translates to little reason to do better, other than the simple want to do better.

 

[medhead]

The problems with VA are structural internal problems.

Clearly - JB is capable and has good plans.

He came out of the blocks storming and the rebranding and Game Change Program took off pretty damn well IMHO.

Anyone who flew VA around that time could sense the pride and palpable excitement that crew had for the new airline.

Then..... Something happened and it seems they've been desperately clutching at straws ever since.

The product isn't up to scratch, and as much as we criticize the disconnect between Qantas Loyalty and actual loyalty, VA/VFF has disconnect issues of their own (mainly around the substandard VA product).

FB moaning won't fix it. These aren't "customer care" issues - they're structural management problems.

I don't believe they have a substandard product. They have disengaged staff. The staff were good for s short period of time, as you say. Now they don't seem to give a damn (I might use a strong word in there as well). Hard product isn't their problem, low morale indifferent crew is the problem. QF crew at least acting like the passengers are humans makes up for ordinary meals any day.

I also want to mention a couple of my recent QF flights ADL-SYD have seen the crew struggle to do meal service. 1.5 hour flight and meal handed out about 50 minutes into it. Not sure what that's been about.

BTW I don't know why you had to block out piss up in a brothel...

 

[dfcatch]

I don't believe they have a substandard product. They have disengaged staff. The staff were good for s short period of time, as you say. Now they don't seem to give a damn (I might use a strong word in there as well). Hard product isn't their problem, low morale indifferent crew is the problem. QF crew at least acting like the passengers are humans makes up for ordinary meals any day.

I also want to mention a couple of my recent QF flights ADL-SYD have seen the crew struggle to do meal service. 1.5 hour flight and meal handed out about 50 minutes into it. Not sure what that's been about.

BTW I don't know why you had to block out piss up in a brothel...

I didn't block it out!! It was the AFF Censorship Politburo.

You're mostly right. But the enhancements of flexi meals for example is a product issue.

 

[HeavyElectricity]

I flew PER-BNE today - first time in J on an A330 with VA. Although the seat was fancier (and had real in-flight entertainment), service was not as attentive as my previous experiences on the 737 (but then there are only a maximum of four people to deal with on those planes).

I was quite surprised to be told "Sorry, but we're not serving coffee or tea" when I was asked if I'd like anything else to drink as my dessert plate was being taken away. I was really looking forward to a coffee too.

It seems too petty to write in and complain about really, but I am in two minds, as it really is a pretty basic expected service for J, a hot drink? There was still well over an hour of the flight remaining too - so it wasn't as if service had been stopped because we were preparing for landing.

 

[anat0l]

I flew PER-BNE today - first time in J on an A330 with VA. Although the seat was fancier (and had real in-flight entertainment), service was not as attentive as my previous experiences on the 737 (but then there are only a maximum of four people to deal with on those planes).

I was quite surprised to be told "Sorry, but we're not serving coffee or tea" when I was asked if I'd like anything else to drink as my dessert plate was being taken away. I was really looking forward to a coffee too.

It seems too petty to write in and complain about really, but I am in two minds, as it really is a pretty basic expected service for J, a hot drink? There was still well over an hour of the flight remaining too - so it wasn't as if service had been stopped because we were preparing for landing.

Now this I do not understand. Unless there was a problem with the water boiler, water storage, supplies of tea or coffee, there is no reason why on a coast-to-coast flight - operated either by an A330 or B737 - should not have tea or coffee available to serve, especially to passengers in Business Class.

I realise that B737 galleys are smaller, but I've certainly been served tea and coffee (not espresso, but nonetheless) on shorter sectors in 737 J.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Wow it really is tough to get a cuppa on Virgin

 

[JohnK]

I do love getting the "Sorry but the EFTPOS Machine some how didn't make it on to this flight, do you have cash?" but the machine magically appears when someone in the row behind me wants to pay

Keep a $100 bill or even $50 bill in your wallet with any other notes hidden. This guy the other day handed over credit/debit card for cheese and biscuits and something else and ended up getting it for free as the EFTPOS machine was not working.

On one Qantas Sunday flight recently a guy ordered a wine and handed over $50 and they did not have the float bag so he got it complimentary. When I was asked for drink I enquired if my beer would also be complimentary. And got a beer for free.

 

[Liroquai]

And adding to that, I asked for a Kit Kat, handed them $4 (2x $2 coins) - they didn't have the $1 coin in change so gave me the chocolate for free.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

And adding to that, I asked for a Kit Kat, handed them $4 (2x $2 coins) - they didn't have the $1 coin in change so gave me the chocolate for free.

I'm glad I don't employ them. Why not just give you $2 back and say you got a discount. It would have still paid for the product and given a profit....just not a rude profit!

 

[anat0l]

How do the airlines resolve / reconcile cases where they give stuff away for free like this?

Surely someone is auditing the cash floats against the receipts and stock levels. And the immediate implication of any discrepancies would be the cabin crew.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

How do the airlines resolve / reconcile cases where they give stuff away for free like this?

Surely someone is auditing the cash floats against the receipts and stock levels. And the immediate implication of any discrepancies would be the cabin crew.

I agree, but I too have been the recipient of "free" BOB F&B, but not for a long time. Back when FAs seem to go the extra mile, I regularly had CC in hand offering payment and told "it's on us today". That hasn't happened to me for some time though (nor do I expect it to happen. I don't mind paying for something I want).

 

[medhead]

I didn't block it out!! It was the AFF Censorship Politburo.

You're mostly right. But the enhancements of flexi meals for example is a product issue.

Meals are an issue on either airline. Qantas certainly has the lead for actual meal times, as in they actually provide a meal during designated meal flights. But at other times there isn't much to separate the two airlines in terms of the presented food.