"Fees" for Free Tickets-I think FRAUD

[NM]

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1670646.htm
The key issue appears to be the hefty fuel surcharges the British Airways passengers have to pay.

I thought the reason for the investigation was a claim by a senior Virgin Atlantic staffer that his BA counterpart had told him that BA was going to increase its fuel surcharge, and under British competition legislation this could be interpreted as price fixing or pricing collusion. Such an investigation is not about the size of the fuel surcharges or whether they are warranted or justified, but just whether the BA executive had engaged in information sharing with his VS colleague that would be in breach of the law.

This BBC news article linked from this thread on the same topic certainly implies the issue is not the amount of the surcharges/levies but the possibility of collusion between the airlines that is the matter being investigated.

 

[serfty]

... This BBC news article linked from this thread on the same topic certainly implies the issue is not the amount of the surcharges/levies but the possibility of collusion between the airlines that is the matter being investigated.

My take on this is that there is some implied collusion in relation to fuel fines.

That indirectly relates to those fuel fines now being charged for award flights but methinks that is not the main issue.

 

[dajop]

One more for the gouger monitors:

Purchase ticket Avalon - Adelaide return $134.00
Redeem ticket Avalon - Adelaide Return $113.12

Qantas/Jetstar are making $10 per person per leg

Purchase ticket includes: Fuel fines $48 + Other taxes $51.12 + airfare $34.88.
Redeem ticket includes: Fuel fines $62 + $51.12 in other taxes/charges.

Note that fuel fines on Jetstar flights are $7 per leg more expensive on award bookings than on paid fares as award bookings can only be made on the QF code, therefore you pay the QF fuel fine. :evil: (Qf Fuel fine is $31, JQ fuel fine is $24)

 

[NM]

Note that fuel fines on Jetstar flights are $7 per leg more expensive on award bookings than on paid fares as award bookings can only be made on the QF code, therefore you pay the QF fuel fine. :evil: (Qf Fuel fine is $31, JQ fuel fine is $24)

I'd like to see the QF Spin Doctor's justification behind that one!

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

I'd like to see the QF Spin Doctor's justification behind that one!

Let's see

- QF uses better quality fuel which costs more
- JQ is using older fuel stocks and thus cheaper
- JQ has better fuel hedging
- QF tops up the tanks whereas JQ runs half empty
- QF needs a handling fee to pay JQ for the fuel used
- QFF pays QF a handling fee to pay JQ for fuel
- pax on award tix are heavier and have more baggage than paid JQ customers therefore use more fuel

 

[Yada Yada]

I'd like to see the QF Spin Doctor's justification behind that one!

Let's see now...

"The staffers processing the paperwork are paid less than those who work at QF, so we are able to pass this saving on to our customers."

That'll be the day...

 

[ozmuzz]

I just booked tickets SYD-AKL-SYD on NZ, using SQ points. The "fine" for doing this was $S272 or around $A230. While this is probably 50% cheaper than buying a ticket, it is hardly a "free" ticket.

SQ Gold FF 2005-2007

 

[Dave Noble]

Just shows how bad the fuel fines are; I know someone not a million miles from this forum who booked BNE-MEL-AKL/AKL-MEL-BNE for a business award on QF and paid a total of AUD148 for 1 adult and 2 less than adults

Dave

 

[NM]

Just shows how bad the fuel fines are; I know someone not a million miles from this forum who booked BNE-MEL-AKL/AKL-MEL-BNE for a business award on QF and paid a total of AUD148 for 1 adult and 2 less than adults

Dave

Don't forget the 43 cents! By my calculations, such awards would incur a total tax component of $148.43.

 

[justinbrett]

I couldn't believe it - I was mucking around with the award booking sysyem.

A flight from Las Vagas to San Francisco connecting at LAX was only going to cost US$5.00 (+8000 points). That's incredible.

 

[NM]

I couldn't believe it - I was mucking around with the award booking sysyem.

A flight from Las Vagas to San Francisco connecting at LAX was only going to cost US$5.00 (+8000 points). That's incredible.

Qantas does not add fuel fines for flight within and between USA and Canada.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Actually this highlights another reason for very frequent flyers to diversify their FFPs.

Using QFF points on partner airlines that dont charge fuel fine = no fuel fine, so QFF award in US or europe has very low taxes.

Using FFP points from airlines that dont charge fuel fine even flying on airlines that do = no fuel fine, so AAdvantage award in Australia has low taxes.

 

[Dave Noble]

Actually this highlights another reason for very frequent flyers to diversify their FFPs.

Using QFF points on partner airlines that dont charge fuel fine = no fuel fine, so QFF award in US or europe has very low taxes.

Using FFP points from airlines that dont charge fuel fine even flying on airlines that do = no fuel fine, so AAdvantage award in Australia has low taxes.

I don't see the benefit here tbh. Using QF miles for AA flights there is no fuel fine , that is true, but AA doesn't charge fuel fines on award flights at all, so whether travelling on QF or AA there is no fuel fine using AAdvantage miles

Dave

 

[waltervp]

So is it easy to use the AA points to book Qantas flights domestically? You call AA for the booking? Same availability?

Collecting AA points cannot be done through the australian credit card schemes correct?

Walter----

 

[QF WP]

So is it easy to use the AA points to book Qantas flights domestically? You call AA for the booking? Same availability?

AFAIK, yes to all questions but Dave Noble will correct me if I'm wrong..

Collecting AA points cannot be done through the australian credit card schemes correct?

Not by direct transfer CC --> AA, you need to use a conduit program like perhaps SPG (Starwood). Now depending on which cards you are using will depend on how (or if) you can transfer.

 

[waltervp]

Interesting thought... I have the Plat. AMEX.

NB. When I earned US$ living in the US and was paid in an OZ account and spend $ living in USA was a good deal. Q.Visa gave double points for dollars spend overseas at the time. So US$1 was worth about 3 points and one spends more $$$ in USA in everyday life, so I was on a good wicket there!

On a US credit card you only get 1 point per US$, and the forex fees make it a bad proposition. At the time I had to do it via Australia in any case, so that worked out well for a few years! My luck has changed since then!

Walter---

 

[NM]

Interesting thought... I have the Plat. AMEX.

NB. When I earned US$ living in the US and was paid in an OZ account and spend $ living in USA was a good deal. Q.Visa gave double points for dollars spend overseas at the time. So US$1 was worth about 3 points and one spends more $$$ in USA in everyday life, so I was on a good wicket there!

A good earn rate indeed. But the extra fees for overseas transactions would have eaten a little into the benefits. The Q Visa was notorious for high overseas transaction fees, which is why the encouraged its use overseas with extra points earning.

 

[NM]

So is it easy to use the AA points to book Qantas flights domestically? You call AA for the booking? Same availability?
Walter----

I used AA platinum Desk in the USA to make the booking. But first I used ExpertFlyer to find the award seats. I was looking for three seats (either U or X) during January 2007 (school holiday period). Found flights with either X or U available and decided Mrs NM deserves to travel in business class, so that was settled.

AAgent at Platinum Desk made the reservation immediately even though I was 472 miles short of the necessary 105,000 miles. So long as within 500 miles they will permit my account to go negative.

The AA Plat desk in the USA could not take my Australian credit card, so she put the booking on hold for up to 2 weeks (try and get QF to do that for an award ticket) and gave me the Sabre record locator to call AA in Sydney to pay via credit card.

Since I was not one of the passengers, AA in Sydney needed me to complete a credit card authorisation payment form, which was emailed to me. I filled it in and faxed it back. I had to inform the Sydney AAgent that two of the passengers were under 12 years of age, so the A$38 AU tax did not apply. She recalculated the taxes and processed the payment and issued the e-ticket.

All very easy. I probably could have called AA in Sydney to make the booking and bypassed the USA AA Plat desk, but the Sydney agent was not aware of the ability to go into negative miles (by up to 500 miles), so that was best done via Plat desk. I assume this is an unpublished Platinum benefit.

Collecting AA points cannot be done through the australian credit card schemes correct?

Best option is to transfer Amex points to Starwood program, and then to AA. But I will retain my Australian CC earning for my QF account to use for upgrades. And use my flying earning for my AA account for flight redemptions.

 

[JohnK]

A friend has some expiring Kris Flyer miles, not enough for long haul trip, so we have decided to go to the land of long white cloud for a week.

Finalised booking today with KrisFlyer and booked Air NZ flights SYD-AKL-CHC//AKL-SYD for late January, early February next year. It cost 25,000 KrisFlyer points and a donation of S$312 to SQ. Is this normal practice?

And to think that QF is highly criticised.

 

[serfty]

A friend has some expiring Kris Flyer miles, not enough for long haul trip, so we have decided to go to the land of long white cloud for a week.

Finalised booking today with KrisFlyer and booked Air NZ flights SYD-AKL-CHC//AKL-SYD for late January, early February next year. It cost 25,000 KrisFlyer points and a donation of S$312 to SQ. Is this normal practice?

And to think that QF is highly criticised.

If that's per PAX, and SYD-AKL-CHC is a transit then QF is a 44% more expensive in points, but 8% less in T/L/C's.

It currently would cost 36,000 QFF points & AUD246 using QFF. (~SGD290, SGD312 is about AUD265).