Flight cancellation help requested: Qantas Classic Reward seat via Qatar Airways

[charliebrown]

*First post, please let me know if I've made any posting errors and I will rectify*

Hi all,

I'm hoping for some advice.

I'm visiting family in Europe with my partner over Christmas, leaving 13th Dec. We are travelling over with a different airline. I found out our Qantas Classic Rewards return flight, initially Rome - Doha - Canberra departing 18th January has been cancelled by Qatar Airways. I found this out on 19th November and after several hours on hold/being given the run-around I feel like I've gotten nowhere.

Several agents have suggested the best option is to accept a refund. Being refunded the ticket now would be useless as booking with an alternative airline will cost us north of $5000. We can't afford that so our options are to cancel the entire, multi-country, long-dreamed-of trip - most of which is non-refundable, or hope that Qantas/Qatar will help.

Summary of options so far:

• Qantas have repeatedly told me there is no alternative reward availability from anywhere in Europe to anywhere in Australia anywhere near our dates, so they can't rebook me
• after speaking with many different agents, Qantas agreed to send a request 19/11 to Qatar to book us on an alternative flight to Melbourne
• Qatar refuse to speak to me directly because I didn't book directly with them, but confirm they've received this request
• Qantas agents have essentially said I shouldn't hold my breath, that Qatar may not decide until the day before our flight and may well refuse our request
• I booked with Amex but complimentary travel insurance doesn't apply as our journey hasn't begun and we have 'sufficient notice'

I'm very concerned that this public spat between Qantas and Qatar Airways may leave us stranded in Europe. Does anyone have any advice for me? I expect the answer will be 'wait and see' but I am desperately hoping that the brains trust here may have some advice.

Many thanks for any help in advance.
- C

 

[goldenhorn]

So sorry to hear this. Is your flight in J or Y? Unfortunately, it's not uncommon these days. If you have additional points (and I assume you'll get points back from your refund), perhaps AFF Award Flight Assist can find you a creative routing to get you home. I've used them several times and it's a great service for finding award availability that I could never have found myself.

 

[charliebrown]

Is your flight in J or Y?

We're very much in economy class!

perhaps AFF Award Flight Assist can find you a creative routing to get you home

This is a great idea and I will absolutely do this if no other options come to fruition. I'll have 130,000 points once my most recent credit card pays out in early December and with a refund an additional 132,400. I was reserving the points to use for a dear friend's UK wedding next year, however.

I've spent much of this year doing credit card admin to collect Qantas points and have convinced 3 other people to get Qantas credit cards and get on the points train - I'm hoping this all gets resolved so I won't have egg on my face!

Many thanks for your reply, I truly appreciate your suggestions.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Welcome to AFF

The cancellation of QR to CBR has caused problems for many people. Are other threads on this Qatar CBR topic
Some have been put to/from MEL instead of CBR, with CBR<-->MEL at own cost
However part of the problem for some is QF not ticketing the changes in a reasonable time, resulting in QR auto cancelling the tickets

QF award booking - Qatar Airways withdrawal from Canberra

Good afternoon all, Following the AFF’s article yesterday mentioning QR’s withdrawal from Canberra - Melbourne due to ground handling issues, has anyone got advice or recommendations on what I should do given I hold a CBR-MEL-DOH - Europe return (J class) in the month of June next year? Looking...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Qatar cancelled Qantas classic rewards

Qatar has cancelled Qantas classic rewards flights. Has anyone got Qantas to put them on another flight?

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

QR forum --->

QR returning to CBR

Thanks for the comments above. IF I call Qantas to accept changes should I argue the point that I should receive free flights from CBR to MEL, or should I just accept MEL to DOH and not jeopardise the flights I already have?

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Mr H]

The auto-cancellation of reward tickets that have not been re-ticketed in time has become a normal occurrence. It is not just QR, I have also experienced it with MH and AT. My most recent experience with MH was losing ticketed flights only five hours after a change necessitated re-ticketing. And I think someone the other day had experienced it with UL.

Most of us cannot get through to anyone in Qantas who actually understands the issue. This is no longer a couple of isolated errors, it is the normal way of things. Is AFF in a position to put this to someone senior in Qantas and explain that this is a really serious and growing issue?

 

[RooFlyer]

Welcome to AFF @charliebrown ; I'm afraid what's happened to you has happened to many people. Some have got a resolution by persistent calling. A contributing factor is many of the call centre agents overseas simply don't know how to help or even make things worse when they tinker with the booking. Its good that you have confirmation that Qatar have received the request for an alternative but as you know 'don't hold your breath'.

If you keep calling, you may jag the Hobart or even NZ call centre (tell by the accents, mostly). They are much better trained and can probably give you more reliable advice.

If Qatar do release a seat, and you get notified of this, make sure its "ticketed" - that is, you get an e-mail with a PDF with an e-ticket number in it, then make sure you can find it in "Check My Trip" website. There other forms of notification - such as one which just has computer-type print out on it. That's not an e-Ticket. Call and call until you receive an e-Ticket.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The auto-cancellation of reward tickets that have not been re-ticketed in time has become a normal occurrence. It is not just QR, I have also experienced it with MH and AT. My most recent experience with MH was losing ticketed flights only five hours after a change necessitated re-ticketing. And I think someone the other day had experienced it with UL.

Most of us cannot get through to anyone in Qantas who actually understands the issue. This is no longer a couple of isolated errors, it is the normal way of things. Is AFF in a position to put this to someone senior in Qantas and explain that this is a really serious and growing issue?

This isn’t just QF.
It’s happening on other Award tickets too.
Numerous examples on FT of AA Awards on QR being cancelled, fruitless calls to AA and QR.

I’d suggest this is a way bigger problem than just QF.
QR needs to fix up their end.

 

[Mr H]

This isn’t just QF.
It’s happening on other Award tickets too.
Numerous examples on FT of AA Awards on QR being cancelled, fruitless calls to AA and QR.

I’d suggest this is a way bigger problem than just QF.
QR needs to fix up their end.

It is not just QR cancelling bookings that are not ticketed in time. At least for airlines are doing so. The problem is that QF are not ticketing the bookings quickly enough. They need to change their procedures so that tickets are priced and ticketed while we wait.

AFF could do us all a big favour by taking this to the table at Qantas. It is possible that the people with the power to fix it do not even know that this is a problem.

 

[charliebrown]

*Update*

My second call with Qantas today. The agent has told me that Qatar has denied the request. I've also found out that my other flight to the UK, booked in June, has the exact same problem! The agent can offer me cancellation and a commercial seat at "the lowest fare available". I'm waiting to hear what that will be

 

[levelnine]

In terms of the practical steps that you can take at this stage, there appears to be only one that I've seen that has actually helped people.

That is to write emails to members of the Qantas Executive Team, particularly Markus Svensson, the Chief Customer Officer. You can probably find his email online, but they typically follow the format [email protected]

Calmly and carefully explain the issue, the problems you've encountered in getting an outcome from Qantas customer service representatives, and ask to be contacted by someone at Qantas who will be able to assist.

If you're lucky, someone from the Hobart call centre will contact you, offering to place you on a Qantas flight to/from London.

You have no chance of getting on that Qatar flight. Those seats are gone and Qantas can do nothing to help you get them back.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If this is a qatar airways flight departing the EU they are required to offer you alternative routing under EU261.

You could try contacting Qatar, and even though they will likely try and tell you to go back to qantas as the issuing agent, you might need to escalate the call to remind them of their legal EU261 obligations.

 

[levelnine]

You could try contacting Qatar, and even though they will likely try and tell you to go back to qantas as the issuing agent, you might need to escalate the call to remind them of their legal EU261 obligations.

Their flight was cancelled more than 14 days before departure, so Qatar have no obligations to the passenger under EU261.

 

[Nitro6333]

Similar story here

Don’t lose heart keep fighting for your OWA

I thought I would just add my story here for the benefit of others and encouragement to those going through the nightmare of cancelations due to ticketing problems. I have 3 OWA's starting this December for our family: Syd-Hkg-Sin-Hel-Dus-Fco-Lhr-Aus-Iah-Lax-Sfo-Hkg-Syd all in J The problems...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Their flight was cancelled more than 14 days before departure, so Qatar have no obligations to the passenger under EU261.

This is not true!

The passenger is not owed €€ compensation for the cancelled flight as notification was more than 14 days prior.

However the rest of the provisions apply:

If a flight is cancelled, passengers are automatically entitled to their choice of​

1. re-routing to the same destination at the earliest opportunity (under comparable conditions);
2. later rerouting, at the passenger's convenience, to the same destination under comparable conditions (subject to seat availability); or
3. a refund of the ticket as well as a return flight to the point of first departure, when relevant.

The airline is also required to pay cash compensation as described below, unless one of the following conditions applies:​

• the airline notifies the passengers at least two weeks prior to departure
• the airline notifies the passengers between one and two weeks prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can:
  • depart no more than two hours earlier than scheduled, and
  • arrive no more than four hours later than scheduled
• the airline notifies the passengers less than one week prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can:
  • depart no more than one hour earlier than scheduled, and
  • arrive no more than two hours later than scheduled
• the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.

The airline must also provide an explanation to passengers of alternative transport.

 

[RichardMEL]

I'd comment this is an issue resulting from QR cancelling the CBR tag service and not to do with ticketing issues - separate things.

I'm really sorry CharlieBrown - this has gotten you a pickle that now seemingly you have no trip to visit family mere weeks prior to departure. this is a horrible situation.

My first thought is if you really have to go (I mean obviously you WANT to go) to see if QF can get you (in economy) to/from the UK from an Asian port like Singapore or Bangkok, then getting a cheap fare over there on say Scoot or Jetstar.

Reality is though this is very unlikely to be possible with huge demand and crowded planes. Perhaps something involving SriLankan via Colombo or Royal Jordanian perhaps may yield something - but it would mean fair details if it was possible unfortunately.

This is really shoddy treatment imo by QR (I'm not going to blame QF here for this despite their lack of ability to help) - QR should have offered to rebook all affected by THEIR choice to cancel CBR to go out of MEL or SYD. Obviously they're not (and the world cup puts an extra spanner in the works for the outbound too)

I think you're potentially pickled unfortunately and either have to postpone your euro trip to a time you can get seats, or look to find the cheapest commercial fare - again this may involve something out of Singapore or Bangkok as there are many more and potentially cheaper options to the UK from there that MAY yield some joy.

I honestly wish you luck at this late stage before your trip.

 

[levelnine]

However the rest of the provisions apply:

The ticket is being refunded. Qatar have not violated any of their obligations under EU261. The original poster would be wasting their time pursuing this avenue.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The ticket is being refunded. Qatar have not violated any of their obligations under EU261. The original poster would be wasting their time pursuing this avenue.

The airline cannot unilaterally refund the ticket. The passenger must agree to this and it is only one option.

The passenger should refuse the refund request and send an email to QR claiming rerouting under EU261. The airline is required to comply.

 

[am0985]

Yep, EU261 is about "right to choose" between the three options and the 14 day rule is about compensation *not* enforcement of this rule.

That said, it can be very hard getting airlines to comply with it. Cathay cancelled my QF rewards flight in late December last year from MAN - HKG - MEL but as much as I protested about EU261 they didn't put me on an alternative flight and there was little I could do about it - without an awful lot of trouble anyway. Luckily I found a SQ J reward for a few days later but things are a lot tighter now...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yep, EU261 is about "right to choose" between the three options and the 14 day rule is about compensation *not* enforcement of this rule.

That said, it can be very hard getting airlines to comply with it. Cathay cancelled my QF rewards flight in late December last year from MAN - HKG - MEL but as much as I protested about EU261 they didn't put me on an alternative flight and there was little I could do about it - without an awful lot of trouble anyway. Luckily I found a SQ J reward for a few days later but things are a lot tighter now...

We took on EK last year and we’re successful. It took about three months and emails back and forth and waiting for an EU court case.

Airlines that fail to comply should be notified by passengers to the relevant authority in the country of departure.

Call centre staff aren’t necessarily best placed to deal with an airline’s legal obligations. An email with a request that it directed to the airline’s legal department may have more chance of success.

 

[am0985]

We took on EK last year and we’re successful. It took about three months and emails back and forth and waiting for an EU court case.

Airlines that fail to comply should be notified by passengers to the relevant authority in the country of departure.

Call centre staff aren’t necessarily best placed to deal with an airline’s legal obligations. An email with a request that it directed to the airline’s legal department may have more chance of success.

The problem is a lot of the time there isn't that time before departure to get this sorted. Taking three months won't suit every circumstance - it certainly didn't suit mine when Cathay cancelled three weeks before especially given the Xmas break and call centres jammed due to Omicron travel chaos.

But yes I agree the rules on EU261 are pretty clear and should apply in this case.