Flight delayed, missed connection and abandoned by Qantas

[oz_mark]

Chances are that a large part of the Q IT systems was originally written in COBOL which was (is?) unbeatable in data handling.

FWIW, Profile, the original system Qantas ran QFF on was written in Fortran.

 

[RichardMEL]

Factually incorrect. I learnt COBOL in the mid 90s at University (along with newer object oriented languages, none of which were MS Windows based) and plenty of my contemporaries made a motza during Y2K remediation projects in the late 90s. fixing COBOL/PL1 based systems. COBOL is not that efficient, its just very structured; whereas as OO allows you to define variables etc on the fly.

OT but... yes

I did COBOL in 1991 and it was still going strong in the Business Information Systems courses for some time after as I understand it.

I guarantee there are still numbers of very legacy system out there with COBOL engines (hello Micro Focus)

as sad as it is to imagine, I can and do.

(one of the most verbose languages ever but it did make it pretty easy to code in)

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2022

FWIW, Profile, the original system Qantas ran QFF on was written in Fortran.

Really? COBOL I could believe. Fortran was always a scientific language as I recall (never learned it myself) but seems odd for a business system. I wonder if they ever got to the f77 standard

 

[oz_mark]

OT but... yes

I did COBOL in 1991 and it was still going strong in the Business Information Systems courses for some time after as I understand it.

I guarantee there are still numbers of very legacy system out there with COBOL engines (hello Micro Focus)

as sad as it is to imagine, I can and do.

(one of the most verbose languages ever but it did make it pretty easy to code in)

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2022

Really? COBOL I could believe. Fortran was always a scientific language as I recall (never learned it myself) but seems odd for a business system. I wonder if they ever got to the f77 standard

Much of the old stuff on their Unisys machines was in Fortran. ( See USAS (application) - Wikipedia )

 

[Berlin]

I will just miss you - we fly back to LHR on the 18th (we are just going to Oktoberfest for the opening day). We were somewhat limited as he has to go back to work and I'm flying on to JFK on the 20th for part 2 of my holiday, another 3 weeks in the US (and returning home from LAX via QF).

We're actually flying into VIE first and out of MUC, so will spend time in Austria before the festival. I have only been to your namesake (Berlin) so looking forward to seeing another side of Germany.

Ha, what a shame! I'll be in Berlin first, then a short while with my parents and only then Munich. Have lots of fun

 

[coriander]

Joining in - we're in Berlin as well but a week later (29/9-2/10).

 

[Berlin]

Joining in - we're in Berlin as well but a week later (29/9-2/10).

Oh wow, we all just miss each other! Looks like Europe is going to be VERY popular this autumn.

 

[Batterytraveller]

We're actually flying into VIE first and out of MUC, so will spend time in Austria before the festival. I have only been to your namesake (Berlin) so looking forward to seeing another side of Germany.

Mask up, or possibly invest in a space suit. I’ve just spent a delightful week quarantined at the Ritz in Vienna after testing positive the night we arrived. They are still treating covid seriously here.

 

[OZDUCK]

We will be in Berlin 22/8 -30/8 and Munich 6/9 - 11/9.

 

[RooFlyer]

This is precisely what I've done for the start my AY J RTW in September. MEL-PER the evening before the following day's mid-day QF72.

Crumbs, I'm doing it with Australian domestic - arriving in Darwin 2 days before a cruise down the Kimberly coast (flying Qantas, of course )

 

[brennan]

This is not good. Now I m worried as I got a flight in August for MEL - SYD - YVR.

 

[JohnK]

Factually incorrect. I learnt COBOL in the mid 90s at University (along with newer object oriented languages, none of which were MS Windows based) and plenty of my contemporaries made a motza during Y2K remediation projects in the late 90s. fixing COBOL/PL1 based systems. COBOL is not that efficient, its just very structured; whereas as OO allows you to define variables etc on the fly.

LOl.

I learnt Fortran first, then COBOL, then Business Basic (mix of Cobol and Basic), then RPG II, RPG III, RPG IV and RPG ILE.

Most of the above are structured and fairly easy to use.

I learnt C in 1987. What a convoluted language. I learnt Paradox in 1994 and used it for 5 years and the next step was Delphi but that was awful too. I have tried to learn Java 3 times but gave up. My mind does not want to know.

I've been an RPG programmer since 1986. A very stable language, with good screen handling, very good batch processing and does not leak memory nor do you need to program not to leak memory.

System/38, AS400, i-Series one of the most consistent mainframes and a very good server.

Guess which applications we use provide the most consistent results. Clue. It not C. Not C++. Not Java either.

 

[N860CR]

As bad as this was for OP, it is somewhat reassuring to see QF confirm their policy is in fact to rebook you.



I am also going to Europe in September, flying BA J award SYD-LHR direct. I'm then going with a good friend to MUC for Oktoberfest, flying BA revenue. He's really not happy about flying BA with the similar situation to QF over there.

Problem is though, how do you enforce it? If qantas’ call centre staff are so hopeless that they believe abandoning customers mid-trip is ok, what hope is there?

 

[Cryptarcadian]

Only just saw this thread via the front page...

Wow, I'm sorry you had to go through this pepeto! What a shocking, terrible experience.

For comparison, I flew a similar itinerary back in May and got a better result on separate tickets: SYD-BNE on VA + BNE-DOH-ATH on QR

I had to book it that way as the QR ticket was paid J outbound, Qcredits return, and it was impossible to ticket at a non-absurd price. I tossed up whether I should book a QF connection so at least it was same alliance. Ultimately I figured my chances were better if there were IRROPS even on a separate VA ticket, compared to a tight QF connection, since as QF gold it'd take me hours to even talk to somebody.

Turns out it was all true, and I needed it. I'd already allowed a longer connection, but by lunchtime I noticed that the plane that was scheduled to run my SYD-BNE was running late in HBA, and there would undoubtedly be flow-on delays. (It ended up being almost 4 hours late and we 100% would've misconnected.)

Luckily VA looked after my partner and I flawlessly. Called VA twice that afternoon, got through in ~10 min each time. They were happy to move us to earlier flights, even before they formally re-timed our booked flight. Our choice of time, either move now or keep checking in the afternoon and call back to move later (they checked there were enough Y seats later in the day to make this possible).

Yes, we were both platinum, but the words "Fly Ahead" never even came up. The moment I mentioned we had an international connection the follow ups questions were "What time?" and "Can I check you are able to make it to the airport in time for an earlier departure?".

A slight complication was that we'd upgraded from Y to J on SYD-BNE and there was no 2x availability in J on a single flight that afternoon, but no worries, they could do any of split the PNR and put us on two flights following each other, one person in each cabin, or just refund both upgrades and fly together in Y (what I chose in the end). Not that I would've expected anything less than genuinely helpful customer service from VA!

I'm utterly astounded that Qantas didn't do more to ensure so many connecting passengers didn't miss their flight in the first place, as much as I'm outraged to hear about the total lack of service recovery.

Can I just say, I'm really looking forward to flying VA+QR again in the future (one one ticket with the new alliance?)... now what to do with all my QF points hmmm.

 

[Anna]

The OP might want to check out #181 and #184 in this thread:

181 184

 

[sqrt()]

Can I just say, I'm really looking forward to flying VA+QR again in the future (one one ticket with the new alliance?)... now what to do with all my QF points hmmm.

I don't think anyone has ever ordered a toaster and had it not delivered. Way better hit rate than flight redemptions.

 

[mgswanston]

I have been a faithful QF traveler for many years (Plat, LG), but it really saddens me when I hear stories like this. I only hope the claim for @papeto goes OK - but the trip is still destroyed.
I had to call on QF not so long ago after a flight QantasLink to Wellcamp turned back to Sydney due to fog, then the following morning's flight cancelled probably due to the same reason. The SYD desk staff were helpful in assisting in overnight accommodation, but my congratulations goes out to the poor single service desk member in Syd T3 who at 6:30am next morning was dealing with a line of about 30 tired, unsure and grumpy travelers, many travelling with families, all trying to sort out delays and cancelled flights. The sole staff member was fantastic, helpful and with the patience of Job, and eventually got me to BNE via MEL. I was offered a seat on the evening flight, but the TAF for YBWW was for low cloud and more fog, so I decided not to risk it.
The issue is that QF seem to be de-staffing their face to face service, both on the check-in floor and at the lounges. The one excellent lady in the MEL Business Lounge was managing 4 people at once, as well as checking entry eligibility.
As mentioned above, the commitment and professionalism of the service desk staff is almost always amazing, but something is really making it hard from a management level. Sadly, it makes dedicated QF travelers start to look elsewhere ....

 

[Berlin]

Problem is though, how do you enforce it? If qantas’ call centre staff are so hopeless that they believe abandoning customers mid-trip is ok, what hope is there?

As Platinum and above, you (for now) still get a fair chance to reach someone in Hobart and/or Auckland and they tend to sort you out quickly and efficiently (not 100% but pretty close to it from my experience). However, I haven't managed figure out perfectly calling at the right time so that you get through to them. I would strongly recommend to just put down the phone as soon as you hear a cracking voice with bad English- not worth your time, effort and nerves and if any, it might even royally mess up your booking or whatever you're after.

In other words- if you're 'only' Gold or lower, I think all is lost. Again, just from my experience of n=1, there are maybe a quarter or so of overseas call centre staff that at least are eager to help and don't put the phone down straight away or, worse, even lecture you aggressively with incorrect information. There might even have been occasions where they could indeed help, at least with more straight forward requests.

But hey, I had one of those near-fights with a particularly useless and aggro individual the other day and my heart was pumping once she put the phone down on me (after I had admittedly accused her of lying but correctly so). Again, I think it's not even worth it with this bunch. Therefore: put the phone down, endure the annoying automated blurb for the 5000ths time to get through to someone and hope it will be Hobart/ Auckland next. That call the other day I mentioned, I ended up in Hobart the next day and the friendly professional and competent lady sorted me out within 3 minutes. No lies

 

[MJHoops]

I have been a faithful QF traveler for many years (Plat, LG), but it really saddens me when I hear stories like this. I only hope the claim for @papeto goes OK - but the trip is still destroyed.
I had to call on QF not so long ago after a flight QantasLink to Wellcamp turned back to Sydney due to fog, then the following morning's flight cancelled probably due to the same reason. The SYD desk staff were helpful in assisting in overnight accommodation, but my congratulations goes out to the poor single service desk member in Syd T3 who at 6:30am next morning was dealing with a line of about 30 tired, unsure and grumpy travelers, many travelling with families, all trying to sort out delays and cancelled flights. The sole staff member was fantastic, helpful and with the patience of Job, and eventually got me to BNE via MEL. I was offered a seat on the evening flight, but the TAF for YBWW was for low cloud and more fog, so I decided not to risk it.
The issue is that QF seem to be de-staffing their face to face service, both on the check-in floor and at the lounges. The one excellent lady in the MEL Business Lounge was managing 4 people at once, as well as checking entry eligibility.
As mentioned above, the commitment and professionalism of the service desk staff is almost always amazing, but something is really making it hard from a management level. Sadly, it makes dedicated QF travelers start to look elsewhere ....

So QF will then lose its good (minimal) staff on the ground too. Who wants that job?

In other words- if you're 'only' Gold or lower, I think all is lost.

Correct. As a bronze with persistence (20+ calls over 4 weeks) to Fiji, CPT and MNL I finally got my two etickets issued

 

[RAM]

Factually incorrect. I learnt COBOL in the mid 90s at University (along with newer object oriented languages, none of which were MS Windows based) and plenty of my contemporaries made a motza during Y2K remediation projects in the late 90s. fixing COBOL/PL1 based systems. COBOL is not that efficient, its just very structured; whereas as OO allows you to define variables etc on the fly.

Mea culpa - missed by a couple of years & relying on (faulty) memory that I can't replace.

Beg to differ about data handling (storage & retrieval) efficiency but not on calculation efficiency where COBOL allows you to call in more efficient calculation languages (such as Fortran) within a COBOL program.

Out of interest what university?

 

[RAM]

FWIW, Profile, the original system Qantas ran QFF on was written in Fortran.

What about Q's original mainframe system - was that also Fortran or COBOL?