Flying with mask

[GaryLG]

I would still get spares for the rest of the trip.

Luckily I have excellent fit for the 3M green 1860 N95 and can use them for hours and hours without adjusting or touching it.

Looking around they seem like they cost more than the Soomlab ones though I wouldn't mind being able to buy a smaller quantity just to have some spares.

 

[GaryLG]

So I'm looking alternatives as the Klaring KF94 link goes to a small size now and I don't really need 50 Airbreeze ones - I think 10 or 20 would be plenty.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

View attachment 271985

I’m not sure where to put this pic.
I’ll try here

This is a QF flight SYD-PER today.
Photo sent by a friend.

Real clever!

These people who over react and choose protection that doesn't work really gets to me. If they are so worried about not catching COVID, why are they wearing a flimsy blue surgical mask? We all know COVID is airborne, yet this person is in a biohazard suit like it's 2020 and we don't know what causes COVID to spread. I wouldn't be surprised if the air nozzle at their seat is closed too, and they do early boarding. When people talk about COVID theatre and COVID being political, this is precisely what I think of.

Now on to the main question, which I suspect is masks. My go to for masks right now are the 3M P2 masks that are sold in a 25 pack. They're not as fancy as the Auras, but I managed to snag two boxes back during Amazon's Black Friday sale for $41/pack. What's great about the 25 pack is each respirator is individually sealed making it easy to take a couple out of the pack and slip into your backpack. It's also fairly comfortable too. These are my go to's whenever I am in a high risk situation be it flying or being in close proximity public transport for extended periods of time. Hopefully this pack will last me through the first half of the year although I doubt it with all the travel I've got booked. In terms of places to look for P2 respirators, I've always found Bunnings to be a fairly reliable source. Woolies is also now selling 3M P2 respirators albeit in 3 packs which for those of us who use them regularly may not be enough (but may be helpful in an emergency, especially when you get your groceries delivered to your home). In terms of brands, I almost exclusively use 3Ms. They've been making them for decades and got the science down pat. I know there are some other brands out there, but you have to really question the quality of them.

At this phase in the pandemic, I'd say we need to learn to deal with COVID. And I say that not only to ordinary folk but the immunocompromised and vulnerable like myself. COVID ain't going away anytime soon and staying in your bunker isn't a viable strategy. The harsh reality is we'll all be exposed to COVID, and only those who take a balanced approach to this pandemic may come out of this unscathed. It means masking, avoiding crowded environments whenever possible, favouring outdoor as opposed to indoor environments when possible, avoiding public transit, getting your vaccine and boosters, etc. To this day, I don't understand why mask mandates have been dropped. It's not a huge inconvenience and if it means avoiding another one of these damn lockdowns I'm all for it. I was ticked off (to say the least) when the damn lockdowns came in on June 26th the day I received my second AstraZeneca dose. I was fully vaccinated and yet I had to be imprisoned because the commonwealth didn't believe vaccination against a highly infectious disease was a race against time and for lives.

Make no mistake, getting COVID is no fun, but there needs to be a balance in all of this.

-RooFlyer88

 

[qaz]

I have ordered (and received) these from Amazon. Yes, there are loads out there that look similar / dodgy and have all kinds of delivery delays or orders get cancelled. They're so good...I can't believe it's taken me this long to get some of this style.

KLARING KF94 Face Mask Large 30Pcs Individual Packaged 4Layer Filter Breathable Mask with Soft Elastic Earloop Ear Strap Clips : Amazon.com.au: Health, Household & Personal Care

KLARING KF94 Face Mask Large 30Pcs Individual Packaged 4Layer Filter Breathable Mask with Soft Elastic Earloop Ear Strap Clips : Amazon.com.au: Health, Household & Personal Care

www.amazon.com.au

They come in sizes too...big head here...ordered the large...and the fit is great. They are too large for my partner though...maybe medium would be suitable for many. Each one is individually wrapped and comes with a clip so you can, if you prefer, have the loops pass around the back of your head instead of the ears.

2 major differences from surgical masks - the main part sits away from your mouth and the fit around the outside of the masks is very close once you bend in the nose clip.

+1

Klaring are/were great value, available in small/medium/large, 10pk $17.97, 30pk $34.97, well-reviewed:

Clean & Science Klaring KF94 Face Mask

Clean & Science Klaring KF94 Face Mask review. Will this mask protect you?

www.armbrustusa.com

So I'm looking alternatives as the Klaring KF94 link goes to a small size now and I don't really need 50 Airbreeze ones - I think 10 or 20 would be plenty.

others on Amazon that have been quality-tested by (Lloyd) Armbrust and Aaron Collins (Mask Nerd) include:

• BOTN
  • large 10pk $29
  • small/medium 11pk ~$40 (via Amazon US)
  • extra-large 10pk ~$43 (via Amazon US)
• Good Manner 20pk $55, 30pk $70

reuse these by rotating daily between a few (4-5, maybe 7) - after wearing, hang up or air-dry each in separate paper bags or breathable containers

features of masks that will enhance comfort and fit

Trying to decide which mask to buy and where to buy it?

Trying to decide which mask to buy and where to buy it? It’s important to upgrade from cloth masks to high-performance KF94 or N95 respirators with the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2. Fortunately, some high-performance respirators are as breathable as cloth masks and their physics is remarkable.

www.linkedin.com

What to Know About the KF94 Mask

This high-quality mask, made in South Korea, is often described as more comfortable than other respirator masks. Here’s how to find the real thing.

www.nytimes.com

The big issue we're finding with Delta and now especially with Omicron is the virus hangs out in the air for quite some time, meaning if you are in an indoor environment for a long enough time without a mask with a high filtration capability, you will get exposed to COVID. The only question then would be if you were exposed to the virus long enough to get infected. Now we know when you're up in the air at 40,000 feet the air is pressurized and filtered via a HEPA filter meaning the air is generally clean. However, if you're on public transport (to the airport) or are in the lounge or airport itself, you likely won't have that filtration at your fingertips. That's what P2 (N95) masks and to some extent protective eye wear buys you, shielding from this awfully infectious virus.

In addition to better filtering, they also tend to be more comfortable to wear, are easier to talk to other people wearing, easier to breathe, don't fog up the glasses, etc.

Effectiveness of Face Mask or Respirator Use in Indoor ...

This report describes face mask or respirator effectiveness in helping protect against COVID-19 infection.

www.cdc.gov

 

[clifford]

Real clever!

When people talk about COVID theatre and COVID being political, this is precisely what I think of.

In what way do you think Covid is political?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

In what way do you think Covid is political?

When politicians make up policies that aren't backed by the science but simple gut feelings. In particular, I recall the former Chief Health Officer (now Governor) of Queensland Dr. Jeanette Young saying she'd rather see an 18 year old get COVID than the AstraZeneca jab. That's precisely how something like COVID becomes weaponized and political. If you want another example, I'd encourage you to look at the Governor of Florida, Ron Desantis, referring to masks as COVID theatre and asking those around him to take them off.

This virus will likely be with us for some time. We need to look at the data and the facts, wherever they take us, even if it's not what we like. Too many folks out there with long COVID, too many folks have died from this virus listening to politicians instead of the truth.

-RooFlyer88

 

[GaryLG]

Anyone else interested in the Airqueen Breeze masks but don't need 50 and open to split an order?

Preferably in Melbourne.

 

[qaz]

others on Amazon that have been quality-tested by (Lloyd) Armbrust and Aaron Collins (Mask Nerd) include:

• Good Manner 20pk $55, 30pk $70

• 50pk $54.63 delivered @ Gmarket:

50pk ￦15,790 (A$18.15) - 10% off coupon ￦1,650 ($1.09) + shipping ￦32,700 (A$37.57) = ￦47,550 (A$54.63)

also 50pk kids ￦15,920 (A$18.30) - alternative power seller: 50pk ￦18,500 (A$21.26), 50pk kids ￦18,500 (A$21.26)

edit: rather than paying international shipping component of ￦29,700 (A$34.12), perhaps instead use a forwarding service (e.g. Buyandship $24 - $10 signup credit = $14)

The best FFP2 one I have found in terms of comfort for sleeping and meeting specific compliance requirements is the Air Queen Breeze.
Can be purchased here :
Soomlab

Anyone else interested in the Airqueen Breeze masks but don't need 50 and open to split an order?

Preferably in Melbourne.

fyi Air Queen masks didn't perform particularly well when tested by not only Aaron Collins and Lloyd Armbrust, but also the CDC - don't know which other masks @Princess Fiona has tried, and how they compare for weight as reviews don't specify?

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Just thought I'd share my go to P2 (3M 9123) respirators are now back in stock on Amazon at $67 for a pack of 25. A bit pricey if you ask me (I bought a 25 pack during Black Friday for around $40). I'm also seeing 3M Auras come back into supply at a few places.

I've currently got 26 P2 respirators so am not presently in a pressing need (hoping for those 3M masks to get into the $40 range before replenishing supplies).

-RooFlyer88

 

[GaryLG]

fyi Air Queen masks didn't perform particularly well when tested by not only Aaron Collins and Lloyd Armbrust, but also the CDC - don't know which other masks @Princess Fiona has tried, and how they compare for weight as reviews don't specify?

Good to know, thanks.

What are buyandship like as a shipping service? How long do they usually take?

 

[TheRealTMA]

Good to know, thanks.

What are buyandship like as a shipping service? How long do they usually take?

I bought Air Queen and P4's from Soomlab and they arrved via DHL in 4 days.

 

[Quickstatus]

If they are so worried about not catching COVID, why are they wearing a flimsy blue surgical mask?

You are the clever one @kangarooflyer88 !! - being the first to notice the incongruity. 100 points

 

[Quickstatus]

@qaz
One of the problems of posting links to articles from supposedly reputable organisations such as the CDC article on masks is that it assumes the research is robust.
I would take any mask study with a very large grain of salt - even from the CDC. The CDC have put out studies that support their policy conclusions.

There have been problem with this CDC paper and also the CDC paper on Kansas county by county mask mandate comparison
The Kansas study compared counties with mask mandates with counties without mask mandates. CDC said in August (red circle) masks mandated counties saw a drop in cases while non mask mandates counties did not. However if the data is continued way past August it becomes very unclear whether mask mandates actually work at all.

On the face of it it does appear that mask mandates seem to have a difference. However, anyone doing real science would not be able to come to the conclusion that it was the masks. One problem with masks is that those who wear masks also tend to be more covid averse than those who dont. Was it the masks per se, was it the other rules that are often associated with masks mandates, was it other Covid averse behaviours?. How much time did mask wearers wear masks, did they wear it properly, etc etc etc

Basically it is very difficult to standardise two study groups - those who wear masks and those who dose.

Then there was a CDC study saying kids who get covid have increased risk of diabetes. But if you read the study carefully, they did not standardise for BMI. Subsequent UK studies have debunked the CDC conclusions.





But back to the California study:
Its a test negative case control design with data collection over the phone
- did you wear a mask
- what type of mask
- where did you go
- vaccination status
- age and sex

But are the differences in the test negative and test positive groups really controlled?

The problem is the assumption that the 2 groups are the same:
- did the study control for differences in age, sex, socioeconomic status, type of work., income inequality,
- are they testing for the same reason?. Test negatives could be those who are testing for travel, testing for work, routine screening, also "just coz", or worried, This is different to "I got tested because I had symptoms".
- Is the mask wearing a symbol of other types of Covid mitigating behaviours
- What was the % of case participants who participated in the phone interview? 13.4% = Abysmally low.
- Are the people who participated behaviourally different to the ones who didnt participate?
- did the people who reported mask wearing actually wear a mask?. (Remember this is the CDC - an arm of government who now knows their phone number).
- was there an expectation bias within the study participants that mask wearing was good?

CDC said in this study (a non randomised) study surgical masks have a 66% reduction in risk? The randomised study in Bangladesh (which also had problems) said 11%. Also this result is way different than the Dan Mask 19 study which was a randomised controlled study which showed a zero difference for surgical masks.
When a non randomised test neg case control study returns a result which is completely different to randomised studies, which one would you give greater weight to?

There are too many study biases in this study, and unfortunately it came from a supposedly reputable agency.


BTW did you see the asterisk next to cloth masks in the diagram comparing cloth, surgical and N95?
What did the asterisk say.
Then ask yourself - why put NON statistically significant data into a large diagram with a very tiny disclaimer?
And then ask yourself - if a NON statistically significant method shows a large reduction in risk what does that say about the conclusions re the other masks.

 

[Lynda2475]

BMI is not really useful either

 

[Quickstatus]

BMI

The point is that the CDC is putting out very poorly designed studies and using it to justify their policy decisions.......

 

[kangarooflyer88]

The point is that the CDC is putting out very poorly designed studies and using it to justify their policy decisions.......

Generally anything from the CDC, NSW Health or any public health agency should be taken with a grain of salt. These are the same geniuses who told us getting vaccinated isn't a race and it's better to get COVID than the AstraZeneca jab. I will however, point that numerous studies have investigated the efficacy of masking during the COVID-19 pandemic and have found that it can a big difference in risk reduction. Here's one such meta-analysis from early last year which found that the preponderance of evidence supports masking.

With all of that being said, if there's one thing to learn from the pandemic it's that there is no single silver bullet as of yet that will handle COVID. It requires building layers of protection into what we do everyday. Vaccination, masking, avoiding crowded indoor environments, topping up on Vitamin D are but a couple of things we can do to keep ourselves safe.

-RooFlyer88

 

[coriander]

Italy for instance requires FFP2 or equivalent on all forms of public transport including Airports and aircraft. Austria and Germany also require them as does LH. There will be others so I agree definitely worth researching.

Many thanks for your advice, your highness.

I'd ordered following your recommendation upthread. They delivered very promptly and as you said, are comfortable (but then I'm used to wearing masks all day anyway).

But back to the point of my pos:t when #3 son boarded his GVA-FCO flight they checked his mask and waved him aboard - "thanks, dad" (amazing what old f*rts sometimes know). They were denying boarding to people who didn't have the correct mask and/or permitting them to purchase a mask on the spot for 20 euro. Sorry don't know which airline but suspect it would be one of the el-cheapo ones.

So your advice and recommendation are much appreciated.

 

[Quickstatus]

masking

Only the N95/P2 level of masks are really suitable for aerosolised filtration. This has been the infection control recommendation since day dot and pre covid. Surgical masks dont do anything because they have a very loose fit and cloth basically don’t filter anything and are just a fashion virtue signalling accessory. The problem with the "meta-a" is they did not address the study limitations and inherent design flaws of each study

The biggest error/bias with any mask study is that it does not control any other associated behaviour.

However, Masks are better than nothing and N95 better still
Local N95 production is a lot easier than vaccine production but for some reason it was not prioritised.

The point is not so much that some masks don’t work but the problem of blindly quoting “studies” without scrutiny perpetuating erroneous results even if the agency is supposed to be well respected.

 

[Quickstatus]

The AMD nanotech p2 was the exclusive P2 mask used by the Australian winter Olympic team.

These N95,P2, FFP2 etc are fitted so they don’t fog up specs.

No point wearing surgical masks - what’s the point of a filter when it’s open at the sides.
Like swimming goggles, unless fitted, they just leak

 

[drron]

The point is that the CDC is putting out very poorly designed studies and using it to justify their policy decisions.......

And why would anyone be surprised?
They have been doing the same thing for years. Delve into the evidence of the ALLHAT trial conducted by the NHLBI which magically suggested the best agent for blood pressure control was the cheapest drug - just what the Government wanted. But along with it being the best for BP the diuretic was better than an ACE in treating heart failure and wasn't associated with an increase in new onset diabetes. Will miracles never cease.
Of course they did what all good researchers do -first pick the best subjects to prove their point.