Forfeiture of Qantas Points on Members Death

[PaulZ]

With the increasing presence of the QFF in the community: Woolworths, Restaurants, Credit Card Point Earning "Enhancements" etc., I wonder whether Qantas should review its policy with regards to the death of a member.

I believe that if a member has changed their spending patterns and worked to earn as many points as possible, it is a little unfair that Qantas makes a financial gain on your death (by cancelling points earned by a member on their death).

I believe the terms and conditions should allow your family members/next of kin to save the points within a certain time frame and transfer the points to their accounts.

Of course this is a loyalty program and is governed by the terms and conditions of the provider - so they can do what they like.

But - perhaps they could be fairer to their 5 Million+ Customers.

I have over 1.6 million points.
To me they are worth over $80,000.00.
Just seems a tad unfair that my family will lose out if i drop tomorrow. (Of course, I doubt my lost frequent flyer points will be the first thing on their mind!!)

I have commenced transferring the maximum 100,000 points p.a. to my children, but that won't solve the problem, since i earn more than 400,000 points p.a!

What do others think?

Would a letter to QFF perhaps put it on their radar?


Qantas Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions:
8.3 Membership will terminate automatically on the death of a Member. Points earned but not yet redeemed or transferred prior to the death of the Member will be cancelled. Qantas will close the Member's account on notification of the Member's death. Qantas will not be liable for any loss or damage whatsoever suffered by any person as a result of such cancellation.

 

[samh004]

Just like most (all?) other things that can be left in a will, I think mileage with airlines should be able to be passed on too. It's fair.

Even if QF does read this thread though, are they going to do it? No, probably not.

 

[one9]

In my opinion you have an unrealistic value on QFF points.

 

[Evan]

In my opinion you have an unrealistic value on QFF points.

I was very much thinking the same ! even if i valued my points at the rates of First class RTW i would struggle to get to half your value, and that is not taking into account all the huge limitations of award travel.
But i did not at the time think the comment was too constructive but since somebody has correctly pointed out

 

[PaulZ]

I was very much thinking the same ! even if i valued my points at the rates of First class RTW i would struggle to get to half your value, and that is not taking into account all the huge limitations of award travel.
But i did not at the time think the comment was too constructive but since somebody has correctly pointed out

I don't think I have overly valued my points.

I travel regularly to Los Angeles.

1.6 million points = 8 return business class trips.

Ordinarilly, i.e. not during the "Great Financial Crisis" it is my understanding that a Return Qantas Business Class Commercial Ticket would cost $10,000+... That is how I valued my points at $80,000.00.

I just did a dummy booking ADL-LAX during September on the Qantas site and the cheapest i can find is 2 Tickets costing a total of $30291.00

I never use points for upgrades.

Maybe my calcs are wrong?

 

[JohnK]

In my opinion QFF points do have a value, regadless of what is written in the terms and conditions, and should be able to be at least left in a will to family or at time of death family is able to utilise the QFF points within a certain timeframe. If enough people provide feedback then QF may be forced into making a change.

Also I don't think it is unrealistic to value QFF points at 5c a point. I vlaue QFF points at 2c a point using them for Oneworld awards in WHY but I am sure one can get much better value using them for point to point premium class travel or upgrades into premium cabins.

 

[Evan]

Given its ok to assume $10k per flight then yes i guess to you they are worth about that much, assuming you could get the days you wanted, and if you are that flexible you could also probably get those same airfares for say $7k + taxes.
Hmm i always looked at more from the other way, i would generally not pay $10 for say MEL-LAX-MEL when i could purchase a DONE4 and get more value and i more compared my points to this value.

If it was me i would say million and a half points about $40k 'value'

My 840k points will buy me 2 x First class oneworld award around the world, value to me about $20k

 

[PaulZ]

I guess it all depends on how someone wants to use the points.

But regardless, I think it is fair to say that there are alot of people amassing lots of points valued in the thousands of dollars and that it is unfair that they simply get wiped out on your death.

Once again, there are more important things to consider when a family member dies, but they are an asset of the person and shouldn't simply evaporate increasing the profit of Qantas.

 

[cove]

Just give the rellies your pin number as QF wait for someone to call rather than have someone trawl the death notices pages.
Think of the redemption as points fom heaven.

 

[Chimpy]

When my Mother passed away, I just kept on booking flights for myself as I knew her QFF password. I did not see any reason to let qantas know about her death and as a family member I feel that I am entitled to these flights. I do not suppose Qantas would agree with me on these matters as with some members of this forum.

 

[SnowYeti]

When my Mother passed away, I just kept on booking flights for myself as I knew her QFF password. I did not see any reason to let qantas know about her death and as a family member I feel that I am entitled to these flights. I do not suppose Qantas would agree with me on these matters as with some members of this forum.

Good on you, I would have done the same, but saying that...... just be aware that if they found out, that could have legal implications. E.g. if you have power of attorney of someone and they die, technically you can still access their bank account as it has not been frozen (will be when someone notifies them)... and if you did touch it after the death, they may be able to take legal action against you.

 

[garyjohn951]

Makes you wonder how many points they wiped off accounts after the recent bushfires.

 

[Dave Noble]

I don't see the issue. This is in the T&Cs; if not liking the T&Cs of the scheme , then there are other schemes available that might have terms which are more in line with desires

For QF to do this , they would also have to have staff verifying who legally was entitled to receive the points based on wills et al. I wouldn't want to see a reduction elsewhere to cover the costs of this; as mentioned above, there are ways around it for those who want to avail themselves of it

This poll seems on par with chickens voting on whether foxes should become vegetarian given that I can't see QF changing the terms

Dave

 

[creeno]

When my Dad passed away last year, Virgin very happily allowed us to transfer his points over to Mum (as she was the sole recipient of Dad's estate). A quick email and it was all sorted. Very impressed.

 

[serfty]

It's not unfair - it's a Frequent Flyer program, not a Frequent Flyers or Frequent Fliers' Beneficiaries program.

When joining one chooses to agree to the T&C's, this clause is a consistent part of them going back to the roots of the program.

 

[bambbbam2]

I'm the single voter!!

I think the points should be a personal reward for the hours in the air, coughpy meals and generally being away from home for long periods.

Therefore they should only belong to the individual and expire on that persons passing.

 

[garyjohn951]

I'm the single voter!!

I think the points should be a personal reward for the hours in the air, coughpy meals and generally being away from home for long periods.

Therefore they should only belong to the individual and expire on that persons passing.

Then what about the family that has one CC card and many points come from family members still living but under the new system the points automatically going to one person.

 

[NM]

Then what about the family that has one CC card and many points come from family members still living but under the new system the points automatically going to one person.

They should consider this before choosing to link their frequent spending program to a single person's frequent flyer program. Nobody is forcing them to operate their frequent spending program in this way. We all have choice.

 

[oz_mark]

They should consider this before choosing to link their frequent spending program to a single person's frequent flyer program. Nobody is forcing them to operate their frequent spending program in this way. We all have choice.

It is generally somewhat cheaper to have one main holder with several subsdiary cards than everyone holding their own main card (and they may not always be able to hold a card in their own right - it is to some extent a way of making the main holder a guarantor for the rest). There is a choice, but the financial implications of different choices can lead you one way over the other.

 

[garyjohn951]

Òne major point that has been raised here is to make sure someone else has your passwords. Having lost a complete family in the bushfires I can tell you, my son had given me a few but not all. For instance he had a paypal account for selling kids colthes and toys. No password, no help at all from Paypal and lawyer says without it probably not worth chasing a $100 bucks or so.