Freedom of speech

[rock86]

Sadly it is very likely - we have become a society divorced from fact and reality and instead one driven purely by emotion and subjective feelings. There are some amusing clips on Youtube where leftards are interviewed and when confronted with the facts the retort is 'there's no such thing as fact and the only thing that matters is emotion'. No more can we refrain "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" and instead everything must be reduced to the lowest common denominator of what the most brittle and hypersensitive professional victim approves of.

So under your view we discount emotions all together?

I think most people here will agree (even the ones who think Folau is in the wrong) that there are certainly times and groups that want to take vilification surrounding emotion to the extreme - Folau's incident however is not that case.

Does this post also imply (as it is all surrounding the Folau incident) that the gay community is a 'brittle and hypersensitive victim'?

 

[Steady]

Which in reality most likely means men will dominate all sports.

As gender is removed, there will be a point in time where there are no men or woman, or fathers / mothers, or he / she, or mum / dad, aunt / uncle, heterosexual/homosexual/lesbian/etc, no more workplace gender pay inequality, statistics that currently measure differences in M/F crime (like domestic violence or similar), and any other records currently identifying gender will need to no longer be differentiated. All youth suicide numbers will be combined. As another poster said, men wont exist to dominate anything, instead of M/F complementing each other, they will be equal - much more politically correct. Will half the current public / workplace / school ablutions then be required ?. Police would be sued when they put out an KALOF a escapee male appearance on the run, or lost little girl.

It will be fun when we travel to those stone age countries who are stuck on the old biology nonsense - or their people visit us - they wont know what to do, and our next generations wont when they go traveling either. I guess we can boycott those countries, and they will feel so sad that they change to the Australian way - or we could start WWIII.

While my post is tongue in cheek now , I'm not confident I will be able to say that everything I posted for much longer

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What I am scared of is that we are moving to an extreme where everything can be perceived as an offence/insult or vilification. Are we going to ban Bible (Old Testament) and Quran because both books contained similar passages to support Falou's POV? Will Australia go through Cultural Revolution or naz_'s regime where books were burnt and removed off the shelves just because? Don't forget Academics during those dark times were silenced or worse "re-educated" in camps.

Actually, I think it is already happening in Australia. Libraries and schools no longer stock on some books because they "offend"certain groups or do not support "Climate" agenda.

Lastly, will Rugby Australia boycott games with Fuji? Because Fuji Ruby Team has Prayer to God before start of the match, plus Fiji PM is strongly against LGBTI because of his belief -

Same-sex marriage will never happen in Fiji: PM

www.fbcnews.com.fj

No. We’re just asking that if you’re going on a national platform, speaking on an issue which you know can have serious mental health impacts, that you use the platform responsibly.

it’s not banning all speech, or thought.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have no issue with trying to identify bullies and educate them to behave how society expects tham to behave. But at the same time we should also try to help those who need help the most to help them get through life. This is a very innocent statement that should not make anyone feel offended in any way.

Exactly

in condemning the words of falou against homosexuals we are helping those who need it the most to help them get through life.

His words may not be illegal, but the majority of us are saying ‘it’s not ok’. We’re doing it to support those who need it most.

 

[Renato1]

As gender is removed, there will be a point in time where there are no men or woman, or fathers / mothers, or he / she, or mum / dad, aunt / uncle, heterosexual/homosexual/lesbian/etc, no more workplace gender pay inequality, statistics that currently measure differences in M/F crime (like domestic violence or similar), and any other records currently identifying gender will need to no longer be differentiated. All youth suicide numbers will be combined. As another poster said, men wont exist to dominate anything, instead of M/F complementing each other, they will be equal - much more politically correct. Will half the current public / workplace / school ablutions then be required ?. Police would be sued when they put out an KALOF a escapee male appearance on the run, or lost little girl.

It will be fun when we travel to those stone age countries who are stuck on the old biology nonsense - or their people visit us - they wont know what to do, and our next generations wont when they go traveling either. I guess we can boycott those countries, and they will feel so sad that they change to the Australian way - or we could start WWIII.

While my post is tongue in cheek now , I'm not confident I will be able to say that everything I posted for much longer

I suspect that point in time may be at the Tokyo Olympics next year.

The country with the most transgender former men competing as women, will win a disproportionate amount of medals in women's sports.

And the country with the most disproportionately greatest number of transgender former men is Iran - since the choice is sort of between extreme punishment or death for the crime of homosexuality, or transitioning.

It will be hilarious watching the Iranian team crushing opposition teams, while western commentators nod sagely and say how really excellent the Iranian female athletes are - being too fearful exercise Freedom of Speech for the Hate Crime of saying anything to the contrary.

Don't forget, Martina Navratilova was near universally hounded and abused for daring to say that transgender women had an unfair advantage. And Feminists in the UK have even been arrested for tweeting the same thing, while others have been visited by Police and had a "Hate Incident" recorded against them for doing the same.

Still, it will be marvellous to see numerous people lauding the Iranian government for its benign and progessive treatment of women - an example to us all.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Blinky]

Exactly

in condemning the words of falou against homosexuals we are helping those who need it the most to help them get through life.

His words may not be illegal, but the majority of us are saying ‘it’s not ok’. We’re doing it to support those who need it most.

Exactly. There are many cases of young people in particular suiciding after relentless bullying and vilification. Free speech has always had its limits and I have no trouble with Falou’s fate.

 

[drron]

Exactly. There are many cases of young people in particular suiciding after relentless bullying and vilification. Free speech has always had its limits and I have no trouble with Falou’s fate.

Well here is a real life story for you from an aquaintance.Son came home from his primary school saying his teacher had said he could be a girl if he wanted to be.Decided he would.So used nail polish and lipstick to school.
About a month later comes home from school looking a little worse for wear saying I don't want to be a girl any more as I have no friends and people won't talk to me anymore.I want to be a boy.I really didn't want to be a girl anyway.
So did the teacher go beyond the limits of free speech?

 

[joeymelb]

Exactly. There are many cases of young people in particular suiciding after relentless bullying and vilification. Free speech has always had its limits and I have no trouble with Falou’s fate.

Australian Bureau of Statistics - 3303.0 - Causes of Death, Australia, 2017

I briefly went through the raw statistic numbers and I can't conclusively agreeing to the statement. However, I do agree with you that some (as reported in various news media) did commit suicide due to bullying and vilification.

Conversely, Falou is also bullied and vilified for his point of view. Falou's mistake was putting his view on social media for world to see, for that he needs to weather the consequence of his action. Personally, I still respect and defend Falou's ability to say what he wanted to say, but I will not attend any Rugby games he's going to play.

 

[stm1sydney]

I will not attend any Rugby games he's going to play.

I agree generally with your comment, but that last bit's going to make your life tricky. Are you going to examine the speeches and positions of every participant in everything you attend? Should you boycott any rugby league match where a participant has been found guilty of a crime of domestic violence or has commented positively on MAFS as a positive for society? Where does it end?

Should you also boycott any airline that has an alliance with any other airline owned by a country that still punishes homosexuality (or any other position you disagree with)?

 

[Hvr]

So did the teacher go beyond the limits of free speech?

The teacher doesn't have freedom of speech when talking to a student.
The teacher certainly failed in their duty of care to the student.

 

[joeymelb]

Should you also boycott any airline that has an alliance with any other airline owned by a country that still punishes homosexuality (or any other position you disagree with)?

To be honest, it is extremely hard to filter and monitor people's thoughts and views. I will leave that to Chinese Big Brother Network.

Since Rugby is never my favorite, boycotting Rubgy (and not watching it on TV) is an extremely easy choice for me. Not flying on QF, Royal Brunei, and Middle Eastern carriers are also easy for me. I prefer SQ and TG for my international flights anyway. I will make my own moral judgement on whom I give my patronage to. But I will not advocate or preach to others on what they should do, I will leave that to Vegans and Greens.

Edit: My partner wants to go to Dublin in F, I had no problem booking my partner a ticket on EK F. I just won't go myself, it is my choice, but it is not up to me to impose my personal opinion/choice unto others.

 

[love_the_life]

whether people have the right to espouse publicly certain beliefs and views

Surely that "right" is not in question ? ( well perhaps it is… )
I though the seminal question related to the breaking of a contract agreement.
Some here seem to suggest that there are or should be overarching, "whole of society " enforceable laws" about what can be said to anyone anytime

Sorry not worded very well. I meant that the beliefs and values being espoused publicly being those which are not supported by society for the good of all its members. If you call this over-arching I suppose it is. In all societies there are rules and laws. No one has every posted that he cannot have his beliefs, but there have been plenty of comments about his role as a mentor to younger people and the damage his social media posts may cause.
Yes, the issue is about whether he has broken his contract terms but there is also a general line of discussion in this thread about the actual comments themselves.
Anyway IMO this thread has run basically its course as those who have views have had plenty of time to air them and have done so. I don't think anything new is going to come up so enjoy the discussion, .

 

[love_the_life]

Voltaire (French Writer, 1700s) - "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. "

I personally do not like what Anning, Falou and some Greens' Senators (such as Sarah Hanson-Young's anti-Jewish stance) comments and social media announcements. However, I will respect their right to voice their opinion. I just personally will not cast my vote for them (and the parties they associate with) or turn up to any games/social events with them around.

In recent years, I had been personally attacked and vilified just for asking questions or pointing out some historical facts. ( For example, I asked some Greens supporters why did they regard naz_s as Right Wing, when naz_s actually stand for National Socialist - ultra Left Wing - and their original policy pre-WWII were actually similar to some of Greens' belief especially in the area of Anti-Semitic (anti-Israel) stance.) Also, at times, I pointed that I support a Mixed-Racial and Melting Pot Culture society rather than Multicultural one. I found these days, when you start to ask uncomfortable questions and quoting scripture or facts/stats, I just get attacked for being Islamophobic, Homophobic, Racist, a White Supremacist or whatever nasty name I can be lumped with.

(Note: I am an ABC with a White partner, I have Tamils Malay Indian, Austrian/Germans and Scotch Irish on the In-Law side - from both Hetro and Same Sex Marriage links. )

Sorry, can't leave the thread without making a point about your comment that naz_ism was ultra-left. No, the use of the term socialist did not refer to socialism in the sense of left wing, They were (and remain) far right, They were ultra-nationalist and fiercely anti Communist (one of their prime aims was to draw workers away from communism). They were anti Semitic. rather than anti Israel (two different things).
Not going to get into politics here but your comments are not correct.
Have a nice day. I'm out of here.

 

[amaroo]

Sorry, can't leave the thread without making a point about your comment that naz_ism was ultra-left. No, the use of the term socialist did not refer to socialism in the sense of left wing, They were (and remain) far right, They were ultra-nationalist and fiercely anti Communist (one of their prime aims was to draw workers away from communism). They were anti Semitic. rather than anti Israel (two different things).
Not going to get into politics here but your comments are not correct.
Have a nice day. I'm out of here.

I've lost count of the cheerio posts Is this number 4 or 5?

 

[amaroo]

Well here is a real life story for you from an aquaintance.Son came home from his primary school saying his teacher had said he could be a girl if he wanted to be.Decided he would.So used nail polish and lipstick to school.
About a month later comes home from school looking a little worse for wear saying I don't want to be a girl any more as I have no friends and people won't talk to me anymore.I want to be a boy.I really didn't want to be a girl anyway.
So did the teacher go beyond the limits of free speech?

Your post reminded me of this classic - RIP Bill Leak

 

[amaroo]

Okay I’m a bit behind.

Anthony Mundine did not have a contract prohibiting him from hate speech. Israel has.

I know others have mentioned it, but it bears repeating. Folau can believe in anything he wants. He can believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (as I, a fervent atheist, do), Scientology, politics, you name it. He can’t engage in public hate speech under his contract. Tear up your contract Israel, and comment like crazy. The rugby authorities want touch you. Racial and religious vilification laws might though.

You missed the whole point of the post It was a response to a hypothetical "what if" someone posted similar from the other side e.g. not a Christian POV.

 

[dajop]

IMHO the whole Falou episode is another illustration of society struggling to deal with the new norms, and division, that social media has created, where we are fed views that re-inforce our own.

Falou's opinion may once have only been heard by a select few (assuming that it was not reported in mainstream media), but through social media has been amplified. In turn the response (of outrage) has also been amplified through social media.

I also wonder if the "outrage machine" is tending to create a more divisive (rather than inclusive) society and risks of undermining a lot of the more subtle, longer term work going on, as they create a perception of a wider subversive movement to undermine the very fabric of our society. This thread illustrates, both the outrage and the more extreme theories out there about where this is all going to end up.

 

[love_the_life]

I've lost count of the cheerio posts Is this number 4 or 5?

Can’t help myself.

 

[JohnK]

I've been thinking that it will be impossible to resist.

So to fix this there will be not Men's or Woman's sports - just sports and all can play.

With most sports that means the physically strongest are more likely to win.

So they'll need to develop some sort of hybrid sports where men and women are equal as women cannot compete against men in the majority of current sports.

What a boring society.

 

[dajop]

I'm still not buying the whole sports convergence thing. I'm sure at least some of it is propaganda designed to instill fear of what might happen, if god forbid, we start accepting transgender people as something other than "freaks" (nb: I don't consider them as such, they are what they are, people with hopes, dreams and aspirations). Sure, there will continue to be specific cases that need resolution, but I just don't buy it that it will be the end of gender segregated sports.

As an aside, in this day and age, do we think the Olympics are being contested on a level playing field anyway? A male to female transgender with masculine features from a poor country, will still probably have a big challenge up against the money-enhanced performances of a number of wealthier nations, or against the alleged drug-enhanced performances of a range of other nations.