Freedom of speech

[p--and--t]

So, GoFundMe Australia says that the Folau appeal breached the organisation's T+C:

ACL launches new fundraising page for Israel Folau

The Australian Christian Lobby’s new fundraising page for Israel Folau has drawn an incredible response.

www.news.com.au

Folau GoFundMe appeal shut down by crowdfunding site

The crowdfunding site has closed the sacked rugby star's account, which he launched last Friday, saying it breached its terms and conditions.

www.smh.com.au

Anyway, he won't miss those donations as he is very well off, financially.

Seems lately he's been making a habit of breaching T&Cs

 

[burmans]

Well gofundme have closed the campaign down because of (who would have thought) non compliance with their terms and conditions around campaigns which support discrimination against people because of their sexual preference.

 

[p--and--t]

Well gofundme have closed the campaign down because of (who would have thought) non compliance with their terms and conditions around campaigns which support discrimination against people because of their sexual preference.

I think you kinda abbreviated the T&C's and left out a few key items......

GoFundMe's fine print says the crowdfunding site cannot be used for "campaigns we deem, in our sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defense of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation or sex."

 

[burmans]

I think you kinda abbreviated the T&C's and left out a few key items......

GoFundMe's fine print says the crowdfunding site cannot be used for "campaigns we deem, in our sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defense of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation or sex."

I was stating what they put in their own press statement and the relevant parts in regard to this. I get where you are going but this particular part of the discussion is about why gofundme took the post down so it was about Folau's campaign only and why they took that down. As far as I know RA hasn't put up a Gofundme page so speculation on how gofundme might respond is premature.

 

[p--and--t]

I was stating what they put in their own press statement and the relevant parts in regard to this. I get where you are going but this particular part of the discussion is about why gofundme took the post down so it was about Folau's campaign only and why they took that down. As far as I know RA hasn't put up a Gofundme page so speculation on how gofundme might respond is premature.

Agreed, maybe I was a bit subtle - but also under the T&Cs his page wasn't sustainable also as his funding appeal was on legal defence on religious grounds which are also not permitted regardless of the sexual orientation bit.

 

[Isochronous]

I think you kinda abbreviated the T&C's and left out a few key items......

GoFundMe's fine print says the crowdfunding site cannot be used for "campaigns we deem, in our sole discretion, to be in support of, or for the legal defense of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation or sex."

GoFundMe don't seem to understand between a civil legal matter (e.g. an alleged breach of contract) and a crime. This is just another egregious example of corporate bullying directed at individuals who don't mindlessly support the rainbow fascist agenda.

 

[drron]

Sorry but his legal case is not a defence of a crime on religious grounds.If it was just that then his appeal would be OK under those T&Cs.

 

[theblank]

Why can't his religion fund this, if it's so important.

and what religion is that which could fund this?
His church is a tiny independant

 

[DC3]

… then maybe he needs to find a new church.

 

[theblank]

Drew Mitchell response:

YOU are in a fight that YOU chose to be in after YOU broke the terms of YOUR contract, the kids below are in a fight they NEVER wanted to be in & yet YOU think YOU deserve donations more than they do??!!

Drew Mitchell is a virtue signaller and a hypocrite

Nowhere has Israel Folau say he deserves donations more than 'the kids below are in a fight....."

Lets ask Drew Mitchell to show us how much he is donating to all these kids. and then if he has, what about the kids he missed.

It’s no longer about religion, it’s about YOU and YOUR greed

and this is rubbish.

Israel Folaus fight resonates with many australians, and its a fight he is taking up for all of us that stand with him, There has been many that have been victimised for having the same beliefs, and there will be many more. In many countries, millions have died because of these same beliefs.

I'll happily donate (and we need to find a new way now). But just a guess, none of these social justice keyboard warriers will be putting anything into the fight on their side, except just more of the same hate. When it comes to actually haviing to stand up and bleed, they will cower in their corner.

 

[DC3]

… I'll happily donate (and we need to find a new way now) ...

Donate by contacting his church if it's that important. Definitely not main-stream. Not difficult to track down, in Kenthurst:

 

[p--and--t]

No idea how it would turn out as history is not a subject area I have studied, but I have often wondered if two counts were done of how many people were killed, maimed, persecuted, raped and pillaged or culturally devastated by religious believers or those purporting to be believers trying to enforce their beliefs on others, as opposed to atheists/agnostics trying to stop believers belonging to a religion, what the totals would look like.

 

[DC3]

No idea how it would turn out as history is not a subject area I have studied, but I have often wondered if two counts were done of how many people were killed, maimed, persecuted, raped and pillaged or culturally devastated by religious believers or those purporting to be believers trying to enforce their beliefs on others, as opposed to atheists/agnostics trying to stop believers belonging to a religion, what the totals would look like.

Religion has certainly got a lot to answer for.

 

[p--and--t]

Drew Mitchell is a virtue signaller and a hypocrite

Nowhere has Israel Folau say he deserves donations more than 'the kids below are in a fight....."

Lets ask Drew Mitchell to show us how much he is donating to all these kids. and then if he has, what about the kids he missed.




and this is rubbish.

Israel Folaus fight resonates with many australians, and its a fight he is taking up for all of us that stand with him, There has been many that have been victimised for having the same beliefs, and there will be many more. In many countries, millions have died because of these same beliefs.

I'll happily donate (and we need to find a new way now). But just a guess, none of these social justice keyboard warriers will be putting anything into the fight on their side, except just more of the same hate. When it comes to actually haviing to stand up and bleed, they will cower in their corner.

I find it perplexing as to why you feel you need to respond in this forum in the manner you often do.

I'll readily admit to not having read all the posts from number 1, but so far I have not read any that infer hatred towards Folou, or religions or believers.

There are plenty of "doubter" comments, "questioning" comments and many who have (sometimes strong) opinions on both sides as to whether the right decision was made by RA.

I don't recall having seen any posts from AFF members that would that seek to deny his right to defend his alleged claim to an ongoing job with the RA that he is entitled to do so under Australian law. Doubters as to his likely success, yes.

Yet your responses come back with "victimised", "millions have died", "hate", "fight", "bleed", "cower". These are the very words that many Australians have become concerned about being mouthed at a small number of a certain eastern religion pulpits.

Do you feel severely threatened by persons who question? By those who disagree in a calm but maybe sometimes cynical or satirical manner? By those who may or may not believe the same as you or a different flavour of religion? By those who say believe what you like but please don't shove it down my throat.

 

[burmans]

No idea how it would turn out as history is not a subject area I have studied, but I have often wondered if two counts were done of how many people were killed, maimed, persecuted, raped and pillaged or culturally devastated by religious believers or those purporting to be believers trying to enforce their beliefs on others, as opposed to atheists/agnostics trying to stop believers belonging to a religion, what the totals would look like.

Well here is some reference material

Death toll of Christianity - RationalWiki

rationalwiki.org

Mostly the death toll of religion is religions vs other religions but occasionally religion vs atheism, the fight against communism was sometimes framed in this manner.

 

[p--and--t]

Sorry but his legal case is not a defence of a crime on religious grounds.If it was just that then his appeal would be OK under those T&Cs.

You have a very good point!

Given that this is ostensibly a contractual dispute over terms of employment, and not a crime, the section of the T&Cs some of the media are pointing at don't really apply (either for religion or sexual orientation or any of the others listed), as this is not about a crime.

I got off my lazy butt and scanned the T&Cs in the meantime and found they are littered with "get out of gaol cards" for gofundme.

• clip "GoFundMe reserves the right to refuse, condition, or suspend any Donations or other transactions that we believe in our sole discretion may violate the Terms of Service or harm the interests of our users, business partners, the public, or GoFundMe " clip
• clip "violating any law, regulation, industry requirement or third-party guidelines or agreements by which you are bound, including those of payment card issuers and transaction processors that you use in connection with the Services;" clip
• clip "any other activity that GoFundMe may deem in its sole discretion to be unacceptable" clip
• clip "The following are examples of Content and/or use that is illegal or prohibited by GoFundMe. This list is not exhaustive and we reserve the right to investigate anyone who, at our sole discretion, violates any of the terms or spirit of these Terms of Service. We further reserve without limitation the right to remove the offending Content, suspend or terminate the account of such violators, stop payments to any such Campaign, freeze or place a hold on Donations and report you to law enforcement authorities or otherwise take appropriate legal action including seeking restitution on behalf of ourselves and/or our users." clip

Not a lawyer but seems basically, "if we don't like it - story over".

 

[p--and--t]

Well here is some reference material

Death toll of Christianity - RationalWiki

rationalwiki.org

Mostly the death toll of religion is religions vs other religions but occasionally religion vs atheism, the fight against communism was sometimes framed in this manner.

Interesting reading.

If one makes the link between communism and atheism in the article it certainly paints a different picture. However I guess there would be arguments either side whether communism is a form of economic belief system (as opposed to a higher being belief system). The "great leap forward" among others was terrible.

Also, as per the title of the article, its sorta picking on Christians and not an overall view - i.e. Buddhists in Myanmar, Muslims in various places . Also fails to take into account the slaughters as a percentage of the population of the earth at the time of the incidents.

So complex, so depressing - man's inhumanity to man.

 

[amaroo]

You have a very good point!

<snip>

Not a lawyer but seems basically, "if we don't like it - story over".

Fair enough. It's their website and they can do what they want with it.

I would say the Gofundme thing has served its purpose for Folau .... you couldn't buy that much publicity for $750K

 

[p--and--t]

I would say the Gofundme thing has served its purpose for Folau .... you couldn't buy that much publicity for $750K

Absolutely.

'There's no such thing as bad publicity' - allegedly Phineas T. Barnum

That's why I was curious as to the number of donations rather than the quantum. Regardless of whether it was "supportive" content or the opposite, he has been front and centre for many weeks in every type of media and lots of "outage" on both sides.

 

[amaroo]

Well here is some reference material

Death toll of Christianity - RationalWiki

rationalwiki.org

Mostly the death toll of religion is religions vs other religions but occasionally religion vs atheism, the fight against communism was sometimes framed in this manner.

Remember reading the Muslim conquest of India knocking off around 80 Million.... that would have to be close to the record. Beats the Spanish Flu numbers by a big margin...