Freedom of speech

[MEL_Traveller]

And do you have any statistics on how many youth suicides are because of something an adult has said.In my reading the major precipitating factor is bullying by their peers.

And where do the peers get the idea that being 'different' is something to be bullied about?

 

[drron]

And where do the peers get the idea that being 'different' is something to be bullied about?

Maybe you should try and find out.
Studies have shown the amongst suicides of youths who are gay that the 3 top causes are parental rejection(x8 more likely),chronic sexual abuse(x4.8) and peer bullying(x3.8).
It also varies dramatically by country with Greece having one of the lowest incidences.A study earlier this century showed Australia's youth suicide rate was 5 times higher than greece though New Zealand's was 9 times higher.The highest rate was Sri Lanka at 2700% of Greece-though the civil war probably had a lot to do with that.Russia and Lithuania were next on the list at half the Sri Lankan rate.

 

[Pushka]

I’m agreeing with most points here. We do need to make our kids more resilient. We need to make society more resilient. It’s a fine line between bullying and harassment versus allowing people to develop a tougher shell. When I look at some of the stuff that was hurled at me in my twenties as a female graduate in the police force forty years ago with only 100 women in a force of 4000 then I wonder how the modern day graduate would cope. Headlines everywhere. But we just shrugged them off as dumb schmucks with loose lips and got on with it.

I’m with drron, I’d say teens bullying other teens has more to do with youth suicide but that behaviour came from somewhere. But bullying has been happening for ever. I got into an amazing brawl as an 11 year old at school with an older girl. Nothing happened other than a few lost bunches of hair I think. These days someone would have filmed it and put it on their FB.

 

[RooFlyer]

And on the thread topic, let's celebrate the court victory of Prof Ridd of JCU against the dead hand of 'climate science concensus' bullies and Universities in particular. This is from the paywalledOz ( not being reported on the ABC ).

Peter Ridd has struck a powerful blow against the notion that science can be conducted by consensus.

Having won his Federal Court case for unfair dismissal against James Cook University, Professor Ridd has shown that plain speaking and an open mind can still trump bureaucratic intrusion and the dead hand of conformity.

Ridd’s victory has been a win for free speech and press freedom.

In an age of climate change dogma where some consider it is OK to “no-platform” those with an opposing view, Ridd’s sacking touched a raw nerve around the world.

Professor Ridd endured a Star Chamber-like investigation at James Cook University after he was first found guilty of “failing to act in a collegial way and in the academic spirit of the institution”.

His crime was to call attention to perceived deficiencies in the communication of reef science by the nation’s premier institutions.
As Ridd refused to shut up and things continued to spiral, the university searched his email account for correspondence with journalists, including me, that might prove he was not toeing the university line.
In the end they found jokes to former colleagues — so the university found Ridd guilty of breaching a “no satire” direction.
This, too, was thrown out of court.

 

[amaroo]

And on the thread topic, let's celebrate the court victory of Prof Ridd of JCU against the dead hand of 'climate science concensus' bullies and Universities in particular. This is from the paywalledOz ( not being reported on the ABC ).

The ABC does have it, they just tried to hide it see more here Revoking Privileges from those Voicing Opinions Contrary to Yours

 

[RooFlyer]

The ABC does have it, they just tried to hide it Can't read about it on the SMH though see more here Revoking Privileges from those Voicing Opinions Contrary to Yours

Certainly very well hidden. I checked that page, but that story is not on the 'News/ home' page that shows in Tas ( ie the one that your link opens to).

 

[rock86]

I’m with drron, I’d say teens bullying other teens has more to do with youth suicide but that behaviour came from somewhere. But bullying has been happening for ever.

That is the point though, as a society we need to curb this behaviour and it starts with adults showing leaderhsip. Not coming out on their social media pages and denigrating certain groups of society, because guess what kids see this coming from someone (especially a celebrity) and think its ok for them to do it as well.

The generalisations that we need to make society 'more resilient', so they can shrug off being bullied/denigrated is absolutely laughable. Yeah, let's let everyone have a free for all and make it all about the marginalised/or victims and tell them to harden up - because people with mental health issues are in such a state they act rationally can't they - but don't worry just harden up because everyone can say what they want about you with no repercussions .

 

[rock86]

Polynesian culture is overwhelmingly Christian. It also needs to be respected lest you be an intolerant bigot who doesn't support diversity.

Who is not respecting polynesian culture though? People can practise their faith and be vocal about how great their church and god are, go for it, that still doesn't give someone (especially a very well known athlete) the right to denigrate certain groups of their society under the banner of their faith.

As it doesn't give the right to others to denigrate people based on their religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Scientology.

I'm not sure I agree.

You're expecting people to dumb down everything they say just in case they offend someone. I don't think telling someone they are going to hell is offensive.

Don't mind the people it actually affects, because you do not think it is offensive, that is all ok, seriously....

Personally, I think we need to identify weakness early and train them to get through life without worrying what others are saying.

P.S. It's a tough world out there.

Wow, just wow. I think @MEL_Traveller has said what needs to be said regarding your first paragraph there.

But I'll make a comment on the second. Yes John it is a tough world out there, and it should be our aim as a society to improve this, like calling out someone for denigrating and further marginalising groups of a society.

 

[rock86]

And on the thread topic, let's celebrate the court victory of Prof Ridd of JCU against the dead hand of 'climate science concensus' bullies and Universities in particular. This is from the paywalledOz ( not being reported on the ABC ).

Just reading through this and it's an interesting one.

If JCU did terminate him because he questioned the science behind climate change, then this is most certainly the right decision, he has all the right in the world to question the science as everyone should - even if scientists don't seem to like it being challenged.

But then JCU are saying it was because he breached confidentiality and denigrated others, something you think the judge would have considered if it was presented as evidence.....??

An interesting case none the less and I presume we'll see it continue on in the appeals process from JCU??

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Maybe you should try and find out.
Studies have shown the amongst suicides of youths who are gay that the 3 top causes are parental rejection(x8 more likely),chronic sexual abuse(x4.8) and peer bullying(x3.8).
It also varies dramatically by country with Greece having one of the lowest incidences.A study earlier this century showed Australia's youth suicide rate was 5 times higher than greece though New Zealand's was 9 times higher.The highest rate was Sri Lanka at 2700% of Greece-though the civil war probably had a lot to do with that.Russia and Lithuania were next on the list at half the Sri Lankan rate.

Exactly, parental rejection and peer bullying. And part of that comes when celebrities and others have a platform to maintain that homosexuality is anything but natural (and certainly not harmful or evil).

 

[amaroo]

That is the point though, as a society we need to curb this behaviour and it starts with adults showing leaderhsip. Not coming out on their social media pages and denigrating certain groups of society, because guess what kids see this coming from someone (especially a celebrity) and think its ok for them to do it as well.

The generalisations that we need to make society 'more resilient', so they can shrug off being bullied/denigrated is absolutely laughable. Yeah, let's let everyone have a free for all and make it all about the marginalised/or victims and tell them to harden up - because people with mental health issues are in such a state they act rationally can't they - but don't worry just harden up because everyone can say what they want about you with no repercussions .

Some would say, and are saying that he's trying to save them, not denigrate.... really depends on your POV.

Me, I don't have any skin in this game .... apart from ticking off a good few number on his list

 

[Hvr]

he ABC does have it, they just tried to hide it

I use the ABC App and the story is still on the 'just in' news thread albeit 11 hours old. I saw this last night and it was also in the 'top news' thread until moved off with a slew of new news stories.

It's on the front page of The Brisbane Times.

 

[RooFlyer]

But then JCU are saying it was because he breached confidentiality and denigrated others, something you think the judge would have considered if it was presented as evidence.....??

Yes, that's what JCU said, but the judge considered it, and rejected it. The agreement that JCU academics are employed under was found to cover everything that transpired. The poor petals in the other department might have to find a bit of academic resilience. Scientific method in its true form encourages challenges and tests of claims and work, not the 'shut up' technique employed byJCU.

 

[drron]

What puzzles me is that Folaus recent Instagram post is being denounced as a homophobic rant.It was a warning to atheists,homosexuals, idolater,drunks,thieves,fornicators and liars to repent or go to hell.Part of the Christian orthodoxy for centuries.As it is with Judaism and Islam as well.

You don't have to agree with it and can criticise those thoughts but telling someone that they are basically not part of society because of their religious views is wrong.
Lets turn things around.What effect has the harsh criticism of Folau have on a young Polynesian christian when his or her idol is told their religion is unacceptable?

And for a bit of light hearted banter I as an atheist,occasional drunk and admits to having lied at times am feeling offended at being left out of the criticism.

 

[rock86]

Some would say, and are saying that he's trying to save them, not denigrate.... really depends on your POV.

There's a reason "go to hell" is still used as a common phrase telling people to fob off without using the 'f word'. While some people may not believe in hell, hell as a descriptor in language is used to denounce things.

Me, I don't have any skin in this game .... apart from ticking off a good few number on his list

Oh that list certainly sends me for an eternity of 'sun-baking' also.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What puzzles me is that Folaus recent Instagram post is being denounced as a homophobic rant.It was a warning to atheists,homosexuals, idolater,drunks,thieves,fornicators and liars to repent or go to hell.Part of the Christian orthodoxy for centuries.As it is with Judaism and Islam as well.

You don't have to agree with it and can criticise those thoughts but telling someone that they are basically not part of society because of their religious views is wrong.
Lets turn things around.What effect has the harsh criticism of Folau have on a young Polynesian christian when his or her idol is told their religion is unacceptable?

And for a bit of light hearted banter I as an atheist,occasional drunk and admits to having lied at times am feeling offended at being left out of the criticism.

All the items on the list, save for homosexuality (and atheism) are proactive decisions. And they can cause harm. Being homosexual is not a choice, nor does it cause harm to others. It was just picking on a vulnerable section of society.

 

[drron]

There is certainly evidence that some alcoholics are in part due to genetics as well.

 

[drron]

The Peter Ridd decision.
.

So every one of JCU's directions were deemed unlawful.

 

[amaroo]

The Peter Ridd decision.


So every one of JCU's directions were deemed unlawful.

Remember the 18C case that involved three uni students? That makes 2/2 for the justice system overruling the thought police. Will Folau make it 3/3?

 

[amaroo]

<snip>
An interesting case none the less and I presume we'll see it continue on in the appeals process from JCU??

FWIW, that line of thought was universally dismissed when it came to George Pell...