FWA pursuing JQ for unpaid wages for foreign crew

[amaroo]

I guess you're missing the very real fact that the DOM sectors for CX cannot be bought unless part of an international itinerary, such that CNS isn't your final destination, but HKG is!

I thought of something else, conversely if JQ used their foreign arm for the flights, not the Australian arm, they wouldn't be able to sell the DOM seats without pax travelling on to the overseas port as well, but they'd be able to underpay them as much as they liked.

They can only do one or the other, not both. They have to decide what they want more, revenue between SYD-MEL and to pay to Australian standards, or no revenue between SYD-MEL but to pay their staff less. While I know JQ35 is consistently full, I don't know how much they make out of it.




Good points.

If I lived in Cairns & wanted to fly to HGK or beyond, the deal that CX offers would probably influence my decision and therefore, CX would earn the business rather than VA, J* or QF. In my view this means local business missed out on a flight down to BNE or SYD for a Int connection to HGK or other destinations.

TBH CX would receive the business anyway as IMO they offer a superior service to the local candidates. Particularly in J!

Wonder how international call centres for local business are any different - when I call Telstra to fix whatever, I get transferred to an international location where, the person works exclusively on my local problem that belongs to an OZ company. There is only one reasons these call centres are created in another country!

 

[markis10]

Wonder how international call centres for local business are any different - when I call Telstra to fix whatever, I get transferred to an international location where, the person works exclusively on my local problem that belongs to an OZ company. There is only one reasons these call centres are created in another country!

One would assume that the call centre employee is subject to the laws applicable for the country they are working in, it should also be pointed out these tag flights have a new crew just for the domestic leg, rather than it being a continuation of a international shift, at least thats been the case with the JQ35 crew I have spoken to.

 

[medhead]

, it should also be pointed out these tag flights have a new crew just for the domestic leg, rather than it being a continuation of a international shift, at least thats been the case with the JQ35 crew I have spoken to.

When I flew CNS-NRT with JQ I asked the crew about their home locations and they were all from SE Asia. It really had me wondering how they could end up flying the route without working some domestic flights. Based on my limited knowledge of the JQ network they had to be doing something like Malaysia/Indonesia/Thailand to Sydney/Melbourne/Darwin/Perth to CNS to NRT and then return.


Sent from the Throne

 

[medhead]

Good points.

If I lived in Cairns & wanted to fly to HGK or beyond, the deal that CX offers would probably influence my decision and therefore, CX would earn the business rather than VA, J* or QF. In my view this means local business missed out on a flight down to BNE or SYD for a Int connection to HGK or other destinations.

You need to do some searches with those other airlines. Then you will see that they also offer similar deals for CNS-HKG.

QF 28/8 CNSHKG $1200, BNEHKG $1179
Returning on 29/8 there is a difference of $1.

You're view seems to be obscured by trying to compare apples with oranges.


Sent from the Throne

 

[samh004]

If I lived in Cairns & wanted to fly to HGK or beyond, the deal that CX offers would probably influence my decision and therefore, CX would earn the business rather than VA, J* or QF. In my view this means local business missed out on a flight down to BNE or SYD for a Int connection to HGK or other destinations.

Two things, why do you keep typing HGK? The IATA code is HKG.

As for the other, yes CX would likely win the business of customers wanting to fly to HKG from CNS, though they don’t always fly direct, you might have to catch CNS-BNE-HKG as the services operate direct and non-direct on different days I recall. But then how is this different to any other airline offering a competing service with a home carrier?

I agree, it’s hard for Qantas to compete with Emirates, but you can’t tell Emirates they have to pay their crew more for all legs into Australia, just so Qantas is on an equal footing, as an example.

 

[amaroo]

You need to do some searches with those other airlines. Then you will see that they also offer similar deals for CNS-HKG.

QF 28/8 CNSHKG $1200, BNEHKG $1179
Returning on 29/8 there is a difference of $1.

You're view seems to be obscured by trying to compare apples with oranges.


Sent from the Throne

I did before I posted

CNS-BNE-HGK-BNE-CNS on the same dates, out 17th June back 29th June the cheapest price for QF.

Y = $1521

J = $9,264

Makes the CX deal look ok in whY & spectacular in J:mrgreen:

 

[amaroo]

Two things, why do you keep typing HGK? The IATA code is HKG.

That would be an error - thanks for correcting.

 

[medhead]

I did before I posted

CNS-BNE-HGK-BNE-CNS on the same dates, out 17th June back 29th June the cheapest price for QF.

Y = $1521

J = $9,264

Makes the CX deal look ok in whY & spectacular in J:mrgreen:

Sorry but you are still comparing apples with oranges. This is not about the price difference between airlines. Your point is about locking out domestic airlines on the domestic leg. What is important is the price difference with and without the domestic leg. So what is the price on QF of BNE-HGK return on your magic dates? $1707 is the cheapest direct flight option in Y.


Sent from the Throne

 

[browski]

I think this JetStar practice should be allowed if passengers are allowed to pay 120 Baht for a $120 dollar fare.

 

[whatmeworry]

I remember flying from STN to BREon Ryanair. The crew were from Italy, so they probably were doing a few legs around the EU. Probably similar to what Jetstar was doing.

I would what will happen to Jetstar's business model once they lose this case. Will we see the return of QFd on some destinations?

 

[markis10]

I remember flying from STN to BREon Ryanair. The crew were from Italy, so they probably were doing a few legs around the EU. Probably similar to what Jetstar was doing.

I would what will happen to Jetstar's business model once they lose this case. Will we see the return of QFd on some destinations?

Not necessarily, QF has offshore staff bases as well in the past including in BKK which closed.

 

[samh004]

I remember flying from STN to BREon Ryanair. The crew were from Italy, so they probably were doing a few legs around the EU. Probably similar to what Jetstar was doing.

I would what will happen to Jetstar's business model once they lose this case. Will we see the return of QFd on some destinations?

But the rules for the EU would allow this, which isn’t the case for Asia and Australia. Might be acceptable for NZ crew though

Maybe they could fly AKL-SYD-MEL vv switching aircraft to pay them less

 

[nlagalle]

One would assume that the call centre employee is subject to the laws applicable for the country they are working in, it should also be pointed out these tag flights have a new crew just for the domestic leg, rather than it being a continuation of a international shift, at least thats been the case with the JQ35 crew I have spoken to.

Well on the last JQ35 run I was sitting next to a JQ FA who was paxing MEL-SYD on QF. I later saw him on the JQ35 and he recognised me and waved. I then later saw him back in MEL walking back to his transport. So not sure what happened there but it appears some of the crew flew up and did 1 leg then went home!

 

[harvyk]

I remember flying from STN to BREon Ryanair. The crew were from Italy, so they probably were doing a few legs around the EU. Probably similar to what Jetstar was doing.

Different regulatory environment, so doesn't really count.

I would what will happen to Jetstar's business model once they lose this case. Will we see the return of QFd on some destinations?

I doubt it. I expect that we may either see the end of the 'D' sticker for JQ flights, or a whole lot of well paid FA's.

But the rules for the EU would allow this, which isn’t the case for Asia and Australia. Might be acceptable for NZ crew though

Maybe they could fly AKL-SYD-MEL vv switching aircraft to pay them less

Probably OK for NZ provided that the conversion between the NZ dollars and AU dollars keeps them above minimum wage, which unless the NZ$ crashes big time, chances are it will. The problem with most SE Asian countries is the conversion of the average wage over there puts them below minimum wage here.

 

[whatmeworry]

The reason I bring up the Ryanair observation (Italian crew on STN - BRE lEG) is Alan Joyce might have seen or heard about it when he was at Aer Lingus and competing against Ryanair and this might have influenced during him when he set up Jetstar. There was a good article about a number of aviation executives coming out Ireland last year.

''Jetstar sought to adopt the efficiency of Ryanair,'' said Joyce, who had been part of the Aer Lingus strategy to become a low-cost carrier.
During the setting up of Jetstar, Joyce drew on the expertise of one of the four men he named in his Dublin speech - Conor McCarthy. Joyce and McCarthy had worked together at Aer Lingus, and left the airline in the same year. McCarthy went on to become Ryanair's chief operations officer.
Joyce's success in setting up Jetstar was clearly the key factor in his selection as Qantas chief executive, replacing Geoff Dixon as the airline approached its 90th birthday.
The fear among unions was that Joyce would move to ''Jetstarise'' Qantas

The rise of the cost-cutters

 

[N860CR]

I suspect (although I'm not totally sure) that there must be some "get out of gaol" for airlines selling domestic tag on legs for intl services. It's been done in the past (PX SYD-BNE sold on a QF code) and QF do it still on a select few legs (MNL & DFW). Crews on intl services aren't all paid as Australian employees.

The drama Jetstar have caused is using these crews on purely Domestic legs (the flights to/from DRW are totally domestic services from domestic terminals) and this is the problem. To call it "red tape" is stupid. How is paying Australian workers Australian money to do an Australian job red tape? While it makes things cheaper for Jetstar, how is it fair on Virgin, Qantas, Tuger etc who have to pay the minimum legal wage for their staff doing the same job. Would it be "red tape" if McDonalds started importing Thai workers on 50c an hour? It's worth noting that TT don't use Sigaporean crews on their domestic legs.

 

[markis10]

The drama Jetstar have caused is using these crews on purely Domestic legs (the flights to/from DRW are totally domestic services from domestic terminals) and this is the problem.

Not quite, the CNS services are international.

 

[flyingfan]

Not quite, the CNS services are international.

And I got the worst of both worlds because of that - I had to surrender something due to forgetting about LAGs and there was no F lounge to partake of.