FWA: Some reduction in Sunday/PH rates for some Industries

[Hvr]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Some of the responses here would lead one to believe penalty rates have been abolished. Isnt it true that these reductions have generally been 25%...with some (from 200%) at 50%?

The point has been made that some "hours" deserve more compensation than others...... OK.. but is 150% reasonable? No? Why not? That is, I feel, the real question.

Of course I'm ex Navy....and recall talking to my (current) work colleagues about the Gulf deployment I was on from Oct 1990- Apr 91... and how I averaged around 18 hours a day for most of that....

The response from one... "Wow...the OT must have been terrific!"...... Umm... yeah.... sure.....:mrgreen::mrgreen:

Now... if you are going to say "well... you joined voluntarily"......I hope you are not ALSO going to object to similar comments about people in hospitality etc....that would be a touch hypocritical...no?

You were compensated for working those extra hours despite your protestations otherwise.

Military personnel are paid a service allowance of many thousands of dollars (currently $13,448 per annum) plus you received deployment allowances which are tax free plus a host of other allowances and benefits.

The service allowance "is compensation for the unique needs of military service" basically it pays for any extra hours the member may perform. Also, if a member does extra hours their CO has the discretion to award short leave which doesn't come off previously accrued leave. What the rest of the work force would call time in lieu.

 

[Moopere]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

You were compensated for working those extra hours despite your protestations otherwise.

Military personnel are paid a service allowance of many thousands of dollars (currently $13,448 per annum) plus you received deployment allowances which are tax free plus a host of other allowances and benefits.

The service allowance "is compensation for the unique needs of military service" basically it pays for any extra hours the member may perform. Also, if a member does extra hours their CO has the discretion to award short leave which doesn't come off previously accrued leave. What the rest of the work force would call time in lieu.

Good lord! These comments could only come from someone who has never served in the defence force!

 

[Solid]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Turns out all those business groups advocating for penalty rate cuts aren't open on a Sunday.





'Our offices are unattended': Don't call peak business groups on the weekend

No doubt just like the groups advocating against the cuts!

 

[Hvr]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Good lord! These comments could only come from someone who has never served in the defence force!

I haven't nor have I ever said I did serve. Do you have anything to contribute to this discussion? Do you wish to rebut my argument?

 

[Cossie]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Thin end of the wedge, just wait until they try and take penalty rates away from nurses, police, fire people and so on, also others that provide necessary services to all, outside of "normal" working hours.......

Yes, I know that many small business owners don't get the choice of getting penalty rates, but it is their choice to open outside of "normal" working hours.....

When I go into a shop on a Sunday, I will ask if they pay appropriate penalty rates, if not, as a consumer, I'll take my business elsewhere, as I am entitled to.

Don't want to pay penalty rates on a weekend, well, don't open. Nobody owes you a living just because you are a small business owner, just as nobody forces you to be open outside of monday to friday, nine till five!

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Thin end of the wedge, just wait until they try and take penalty rates away from nurses, police, fire people and so on, also others that provide necessary services to all, outside of "normal" working hours.......

Yes, I know that many small business owners don't get the choice of getting penalty rates, but it is their choice to open outside of "normal" working hours.....

When I go into a shop on a Sunday, I will ask if they pay appropriate penalty rates, if not, as a consumer, I'll take my business elsewhere, as I am entitled to.

Don't want to pay penalty rates on a weekend, well, don't open. Nobody owes you a living just because you are a small business owner, just as nobody forces you to be open outside of monday to friday, nine till five!

And this is why our local newsagency no longer exists.First didn't open on Sunday because of penalty rates.So instead of a 1.5km walk to get the Sunday papers now ~ a 4km walk to Woollies.So people decided they would buy papers when they went to the supermarket.And the newsagency closes.3 jobs lost,no more paper deliveries and Woolllies employs no extra staff.No one notices just 3 jobs lost but around regional Australia this sort of story is repeated many times.In those areas I go back to many small businesses have closed.All adds up.No problems for inner city socialists so all is fine with the world.

 

[Hvr]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

And this is why our local newsagency no longer exists.First didn't open on Sunday because of penalty rates.So instead of a 1.5km walk to get the Sunday papers now ~ a 4km walk to Woollies.So people decided they would buy papers when they went to the supermarket.And the newsagency closes.3 jobs lost,no more paper deliveries and Woolllies employs no extra staff.No one notices just 3 jobs lost but around regional Australia this sort of story is repeated many times.In those areas I go back to many small businesses have closed.All adds up.No problems for inner city socialists so all is fine with the world.

There are many problems with news agencies and I reckon penalty rates are a very minor part of the problem.

When Woolies etc started selling newspapers was the beginning of the end for them. Very easy to pick up the paper and get some milk etc rather than visiting two stores.

Then the newspaper companies demanded all of the information about home deliveries and took that over themselves depriving the news agencies of those sales.

The lottery organisations, Tattslotto etc have also had various issues that affected the news agency business.

The general drop off in hard copy newspaper sales to on line sales will probably kill off already failing news agencies and hopefully inspire progressive owners to review their business model and see where the profits are to be made in the future.

Country areas where the news agency ran the local post office have also had issues with that part of their business because of how Australia Post has changed both their business model (i.e. cutting payments etc and moving to sub contractors to deliver parcels and so on).

And yet you seem to believe that the person who would've done the 2-3 hour shift on a Sunday and getting double time is wholly responsible for causing the business to go broke. The penalty rates haven't changed in decades so the cost of the employee wages is generally stable and totally foreseeable.


The above factors are capitalism at its best, nothing to do with socialism. Maybe the business model of the news agency is no longer viable and will go the way of the blacksmith or the switchboard operator?

 

[drron]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Though I didn't say penalty rates were the only problem and did cite Woollies selling papers as a factor.
I was also responding to this-

Nobody owes you a living just because you are a small business owner, just as nobody forces you to be open outside of monday to friday, nine till five!

And that is where my sarcastic remark re inner city socialists comes in.

 

[Moindardt]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

You were compensated for working those extra hours despite your protestations otherwise.

Military personnel are paid a service allowance of many thousands of dollars (currently $13,448 per annum) plus you received deployment allowances which are tax free plus a host of other allowances and benefits.

The service allowance "is compensation for the unique needs of military service" basically it pays for any extra hours the member may perform. Also, if a member does extra hours their CO has the discretion to award short leave which doesn't come off previously accrued leave. What the rest of the work force would call time in lieu.

I can't even begin to comment on how many levels you are wrong, let alone basic mathematics.

Lets pretend, for the sake of some people who don't get it, that a soldier only works 12 hours a day, 7 days a week on exercise/deployment (yeh right) and that a normal day is 8 hours. Lets look at a standard award of time and a half for the first 3 hours and double time after that. Because they are already over the maximum hours, all the weekend is at double time. Lets use $20/hr as a base rate. Standard wage = 20*40*52 (I know its 52 weeks 1 and a quarter days but we know that will confuse some people) = $41600 a year. If the army were paid like normal people, they would have 5 days of 8 hrs normal + 3 hrs OT1.5 and 1 hr OT2.0 and on the weekend 2 days of 12 hrs OT2.0 for a total of 40 hours normal + 15hrs OT1.5 + 29 hrs OT2.0 @ $20 /hr = $2410 /wk * 52 weeks = $125320 which is more than triple the base wage.

Keep in mind soldiers are obviously making more than $20/hr, how was that $13448/yr adequate compensation? Even if we take out the weekends it is still more than double. And seriously.. 12 hours.. roflmao

Oh.. maybe you should go to an army/navy bar and tell them how well off they are and how you think they are more than adequate compensated. Please let us know when and live stream it for our general amusement.

Don't forget to tell the whiny cough that if he really deserved it, his CO would have given him short leave, but he obviously didn't work hard enough.

I won't bother trying to explain the rest because it is just like trying to explain a Bill Leak cartoon to some people. National Service should be mandatory. It would certainly help solve some of our major social issues and their lack of understanding.

 

[DC3]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

.


" ... Oh.. maybe you should go to an army/navy bar and tell them how well off they are and how you think they are more than adequate compensated ...

Yes, the Defence Force is something that you go into for a number of reasons. It's never about the money or the prospect of fair compensation. People join for other reasons. No-one ever gets wealthy there.

 

[Duffa]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Oh, I love OT threads like this.
It helps me sort out who is a good old capitalist or a dirty, rotten Leftie! (Oops, did I just say that out loud? )

Anyway, my uni student daughter can't get casual work on the weekends because no-one wants to pay the double/1.5 on her only available days.
She even offered to work for single time just to make some money but no-one would touch that.

 

[DC3]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

.. Anyway, my uni student daughter can't get casual work on the weekends because no-one wants to pay the double/1.5 on her only available days.
She even offered to work for single time just to make some money but no-one would touch that.

... Yes, but there are plenty of businesses that have the staff to open on the weekends and that are required to pay penalty rates.

May not help your daughter at the moment but here's hoping that a "good old capitalist" will take her on, soon.

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Meanwhile a number of restaurants already adding a surcharge despite potential changes in penalty rates.

Top restaurants slap on Sunday surcharge

 

[Hvr]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

<snip>

Oh.. maybe you should go to an army/navy bar and tell them how well off they are and how you think they are more than adequate compensated. Please let us know when and live stream it for our general amusement.

I have eaten in the OR's mess, SGT's mess and the Officer's mess at Navy/Army and Air Force bases around the country. And had this type of discussion a couple of times. The people involved were respectful and whilst we didn't always agree 100% there was acknowledgement that the military personnel weren't under compensated for their role.

It was also interesting to discuss this point with members who'd left and then quickly returned once they realised life was a lot harder on civi street.

I also had this type of discussion with a trainee group of RSMs in their mess, (I was a visiting lecturer) who, whilst eating agreed they were appropriately compensated and they wouldn't leave the service until mandatory retirement because it was such a good life. Yes they were polite but we'd had some frank discussions during my session and they weren't afraid to intelligently and appropriately argue their point.

Sadly, your desire for live streaming has been and gone and you probably wouldn't have enjoyed it.

I didn't say they were "more than adequate compensated" sic, I argued they were appropriately compensated for their role.

<snip> National Service should be mandatory. It would certainly help solve some of our major social issues and their lack of understanding.

Given the military of today is a professional service they don't have time for social services and to fix the problems of society. And sadly with the problems of some ex-members maybe they (the military) should focus on them and what went wrong.

I doubt you'd find any current military personnel in leadership roles who would welcome national service. It is basically a right-wing wet dream to attempt to solve problems by addressing outcomes rather than causes.

 

[amaroo]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

LOL a few years ago there was a thread where a similar topic was discussed.... good to see some have changed their POV and calmed down through the sands of time

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Coles manager in Perth trying to get workers to work for free on a Sunday.

The boss of a metropolitan Coles supermarket asked his staff to work for free for four hours this Sunday.
He'd asked for help to get through excess stock in the store, offering them pizza as a thank you but the request was withdrawn after the SDA union spoke to the manager.
A Coles spokesperson said the request was completely out of step with Coles' way of working and any team members working at that time would be paid as normal.

https://soundcloud.com/720abcperth/pizza-for-pay-boss-asks-staff-to-work-for-free

 

[N860CR]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Coles manager in Perth trying to get workers to work for free on a Sunday.



View attachment 94222

https://soundcloud.com/720abcperth/pizza-for-pay-boss-asks-staff-to-work-for-free

Common, unfortunately. I know of a midsize business that actually tells people during interviews that they'll be expected to work the occasional Saturday or Sunday for no pay.

 

[sinophile888]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Many companies don't pay compulsory superannuation, again with impunity because it's not a crime.Just some slight embarrassment for the company.

My daughter works in retail on a Sunday to fit in with her other commitments. The owners initially paid super but then stopped. The Tax Department was notified and they sent the owners a letter, which was duly ignored. Another letter was sent. Same result.

Then they sold the company back to the previous owner, who is paying super on a regular basis. It transpired that the non super paying owners were not only not paying super but also they were not forwarding the tax withheld from the workers to the Tax Department. They have since left the country.

My daughter never has a problem getting a Sunday shift. The Sunday rate is 160% (not 200%) but virtually no-one is prepared to work for that rate on a Sunday. It is almost impossible to get a replacement if someone rostered for a Sunday is ill.

It makes me wonder what will happen if/when the Sunday rates are lowered?

 

[wandering_fred]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

...
It makes me wonder what will happen if/when the Sunday rates are lowered?

Church attendance increases? :shock: More Moslems and Jews prefer to work work on Sunday?
People complain that Sunday prices at their favorite cafe has a 25% weekend surcharge?
There are cafes no longer open on Sundays? Cafe owners combine to ask for state wide EBAs at
rates similar to those in the Woolies, Coles, etc agreements?

There is at least one local fast food store (company owned not franchise) that has trouble covering
Saturdays when staff call in "ill"

Just a little bit of wandering

Fred

 

[whatmeworry]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

[h=1]Fiona the Underemployed Bettong[/h]