General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[mrs.dr.ron]

Anyone else resemble this at the moment
View attachment 217205

VPS - how did you like the Amarula ?? Are you a convert ? If you posted your verdict I must of missed it !

 

[Flashback]

Coronavirus: Germany reopens shops as lockdown is relaxed

Angela Merkel says "the very first phase is behind us" as the coronavirus lockdown is eased.

www.bbc.co.uk

Germany starting to ease restrictions, will be interesting to see what the rest of Europe does.

 

[get me outta here]

Why some people don’t wear masks :

 

[drron]

Well we have had multiple reports of people leaving their quarantine hotels,travelling interstate and then testing positive-the last 2 cases in SA for example.
So either asymptomatic in the hotel but then developed symptoms later or picked it up in the hotel.
I don't know why you think that a defined process of cleaning put out by a State Health Dept is going to be followed by everyone.In the real world it doesn't happen,even in hospitals.

And I keep mentioning hotels because it happened during SARS.

This hotel is infamous as ground zero for a SARS 'super spreader' in the 2003 outbreak—here's what happened

As coronavirus, or COVID-19 spreads in China, some are reminded of another outbreak. In 2003, roughly 4,000 of the world's total cases of respiratory infection SARS could be traced back to one infected doctor's stay at a Hong Kong hotel. The doctor died, along with multiple other guests who all...

www.cnbc.com

Later the virus was found on the doors,carpet and lifts on the floor where the patient had stayed.The only room where the virus was found was the one where the original case stayed.

Now in 2005 the WHO released guidelines for the reduction of cases to try and prevent the occurrence of a similiar pandemic.Various guidelines for the hotel,airlines and cruise ships.Really not widely known was it.
But then in 2009 at the same hotel now renamed the Metropark the same thing happened with swine flu.

The role of the hotel industry in the response to emerging epidemics: a case study of SARS in 2003 and H1N1 swine flu in 2009 in Hong Kong - Globalization and Health

Background The global travel and tourism industry has been rapidly expanding in the past decades. The traditional focus on border screening, and by airline and cruise industries may be inadequate due to the incubation period of an infectious disease. This case study highlights the potential role...

globalizationandhealth.biomedcentral.com

 

[Princess Fiona]

The uptake of the app may slow down with news from the ATO that their early access to Super site has been hacked and least a 100 cases of people losing money have been uncovered.
Harder to counter the I don't trust the Government after this even though totally different from the app.

The ATO site has not been hacked AFAIK :

“Measures designed to protect the integrity of the early access to superannuation scheme have helped detect a small amount of fraudulent activity associated with the program.
ATO systems were not hacked.
A small number of people appear to have had personal details unlawfully used in a bid to defraud the program. This has been stopped and the impacted individuals are being contacted.
The ATO’s online systems have not been compromised.
The matter is currently under investigation by the AFP and for operational reasons we are unable to comment further at this stage.”

 

[kyle]

Later the virus was found on the doors,carpet and lifts on the floor where the patient had stayed.The only room where the virus was found was the one where the original case stayed.

I'm interested in how the virus got onto the doors and lifts. Does that mean the infected kept sneezing or coughing everywhere and not covering up and not washing their hands?

 

[serfty]

The uptake of the app may slow down with news from the ATO that their early access to Super site has been hacked and least a 100 cases of people losing money have been uncovered.
Harder to counter the I don't trust the Government after this even though totally different from the app.

What has happened is really no different to someone's bank account detail being compromised (such as by phishing) by those intent on stealing, electronically or otherwise.

In fact, it shows that there is a level of safety in the Government's Superannuation Account monitoring in that these attempts were detected.

Of course, those of the tin foil hat brigade, those who despise the current government and others will distort anything to promote their views.

 

[Pushka]

Why some people don’t wear masks :

View attachment 217251

He is described as a law maker but refuses to adhere to restrictions. Yep. Got that.

 

[get me outta here]

People shed viruses all the time.

I'm interested in how the virus got onto the doors and lifts. Does that mean the infected kept sneezing or coughing everywhere and not covering up and not washing their hands?

 

[VPS]

VPS - how did you like the Amarula ?? Are you a convert ? If you posted your verdict I must of missed it !

It took a while to arrive and I must admit it didn't do it for me but I only had one glass but the little bottle of Mozart is just like a iced chocolate but with a kick - it's very thick though. Some more experimentation and research is required and I think I'm up for it. Watch this space.

 

[p--and--t]

I occasionally follow the blog of a 24-25 yo American (SFO) athlete/marathoner because a couple years ago he took off for several months wandering around a number of interesting spots throughout Europe and had lots of suggestions and pics of neat places.

He hasn't put anything up for quite a while until today where he related about a month or so ago he had symptoms of a cold but nothing serious, no shortness of breath, a bit of a temperature and thought nothing of it.

Today's entry was him in a hospital bed relating how he lost 5 days of his life in ICU, induced coma, and intubation with Covid-19.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And I keep mentioning hotels because it happened during SARS.

This hotel is infamous as ground zero for a SARS 'super spreader' in the 2003 outbreak—here's what happened

As coronavirus, or COVID-19 spreads in China, some are reminded of another outbreak. In 2003, roughly 4,000 of the world's total cases of respiratory infection SARS could be traced back to one infected doctor's stay at a Hong Kong hotel. The doctor died, along with multiple other guests who all...

www.cnbc.com

Later the virus was found on the doors,carpet and lifts on the floor where the patient had stayed.The only room where the virus was found was the one where the original case stayed.

What is your point? It is known that the virus can survive on surfaces and for this reason quarantine hotels have to take particular measures including the cleaning of surfaces. Indeed at present even your local supermarket will be taking more thorough virus cleaning that that particular hotel did.

It is known that the Covid 19 is contagious and without control measures in place that yes you can transmit viruses to others. But that is not the case with quarantine hotels as control measures are in pace.


It is simply not relevant to being up random examples of hotels which were just functioning as a normal hotel with no virus control measures in place and that had virus spread, as one cannot compare a hotel being used for quarantine which follows quarantines guidelines and rules for staff, cleaners and the quarantined with a hotel where a random guest stayed where there were no measures in place.

I posted a link to the WA guidelines.

Lie was not in quarantine. The Hotel was not a quarantine hotel. No virus control measures were in place. Why would anyone be surprised that he transmitted the virus to others?

By the time Liu checked out of the hotel after just one night, he’d already infected seven other people, all of whom also stayed on the Metropole’s ninth floor. (Some investigators believed that Liu might have either coughed or vomited in the ninth floor hallway and that’s how the disease spread to other guests on his floor.)

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I'm interested in how the virus got onto the doors and lifts. Does that mean the infected kept sneezing or coughing everywhere and not covering up and not washing their hands?

Droplet transmission will occur from speaking, coughing, sneezing and even just breathing from the virus being shed and occurs from someone who has Covid 19, or similar viruses. The droplets with the virus attached travel a metre or so and can land on any surface. Buttons may be infected by touched if an infected person has the virus on their hands (they may have coughed into them etc).

The hotel quoted was just a hotel operating as a bog standard hotel. It was not a quarantine hotel and had no special SARS Virus control measure in place.

By the time Liu checked out of the hotel after just one night, he’d already infected seven other people, all of whom also stayed on the Metropole’s ninth floor. (Some investigators believed that Liu might have either coughed or vomited in the ninth floor hallway and that’s how the disease spread to other guests on his floor.)

If you stay in any hotel or cruise ship you run exactly the same risk of catching a virus. Look at how the flu and Covid 19 has been spread on cruise ships.

Now if you are in a building, including a quarantine hotel, practising Covid 19 control measures then it is an entirely different situation.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I don't know why you think that a defined process of cleaning put out by a State Health Dept is going to be followed by everyone.In the real world it doesn't happen,even in hospitals.

Just as in the real world testing is not always performed correctly either. So again what is you point? Even a more rigorous quarantine would have the same flaw. Nothing in life is perfect, but that is not a reason to not act, nor to have what are deemed to be adequate measures in pace. Resources are a problem, including how many test kits are available (now rapidly improving) and has to be part of the balance of what can reasonably be done.

Yes we could look everyone in cells because a few idiots (one of whom is now in jail tried to break quarantine) or you can set what is a reasonable bar and deal with the outliers.

If 14 days quarantine is not adequate, then it should be upped. However at present it seems to be the length of time used around the world.


As outlined in my earlier post quarantine not being perfect is why quarantine is not the only control measure, and why one also needs to have contact tracing and measures like the Covid 19 app.

 

[drron]

My point is just that.Nothing is perfect in the real world so why do you expect quarantine hotels to do things perfectly.There have been many instances of failure in Australia already,many that I have posted already.
Fact viruses can be found on surfaces for days.
Fact-cleaning will not always be perfect.
So the logical conclusion is that seeing quarantine hotels have a higher risk population for Covid then it will be possible that an uninfected person might get their infection in the hotel.

Things are never black and white that your posts seem to imply.
You and I do not have sufficient understanding of this virus to be confident of what the future may bring.Even the real experts have widely different ideas.

 

[DC3]

South Australian Pub and patrons fined over drinks in the front bar:


Pub fined $5,000 for flouting coronavirus restrictions by serving drinks in front bar - ABC News

Edited

 

[lovetravellingoz]

My point is just that. Nothing is perfect in the real world so why do you expect quarantine hotels to do things perfectly.

Perhaps go back and find where I stated they go perfectly. I did not. Nothing is perfect.

There have been many instances of failure in Australia already,many that I have posted already.

I am still waiting for you to post a true failure. ie Someone going through a proper hotel quarantine and infecting someone post quarantine.

One failure you posted of a family in quarantine re Covid19 was actually wrong. The family had members display symptoms of Covid 19, were confirmed to be Covid 19 positive while in quarantine and then were moved to a medical facility. ie This was actually the process working.


Other failures you mentioned were of people testing positive post quarantine. This is not a failure as the 14 days is not meant to be that people are Covid 19 free. Just that they will not infect people.

An interstate (and not international) traveller broke quarantine in WA and is now in jail. The Government's in Australia have mainly gone along a cooperative path with the public which I think is a good one. I think personally that locking up in quarantine behind locked doors and barbed wire would be overly harsh and is not required.

But as I have previously posted some may slip through, but that is why other measures are also in place.

Fact viruses can be found on surfaces for days.

This is hardly new and is know by everyone. Though another fact is that it is not known how infectious a trace after 3 days may be.

Fact-cleaning will not always be perfect.

Nothing in life is perfect. By the way I have been involved with the training Facility and Building Managers and other Building Services staff for a wide range of facilities including for Hospitals, Aged Car, Education, Sporting Venues,, Public Transport, ADF, the three levels of government etc for over a decade on topics including cleaning, OH&S, risk management, indoor environment quality, building services including HVAC etc and so my knowledge of cleaning and related issues is pretty good compared to most.

So the logical conclusion is that seeing quarantine hotels have a higher risk population for Covid then it will be possible that an uninfected person might get their infection in the hotel.

Possible? It is possible that anyone can get infected virtually anywhere.

There are many people that need to be quarantined and there needs to be a process for this. Consideration needs to include all trade offs including cost and yes that some infections may occur.

An approved vaccine may possibly kill someone, or cause others serious problems. But we as a community take them as the overall outcomes are better for most if we do.

Things are never black and white that your posts seem to imply.

Perhaps go back and re-read what I said. I never said they were black and white.

You and I do not have sufficient understanding of this virus to be confident of what the future may bring. Even the real experts have widely different ideas.

And your point is? What we were discussing is what are reasonable quarantine measures to be used now in Australia based on what is known.
Those that know best seem to have decided that the 14 day hotel quarantine process is a reasonable one. I have not read anything yet from you or others to suggest that it is not so.

Obviously anything can be improved and now that more tests are available that may well be one of the tweaks to the current process. If new knowledge is gained that may lead to other tweaks.

If you wait in life till things are perfect, you will always be waiting and not acting.

 

[drron]

The fact that people can come out of hotel quarantine and be found to be Covid positive a day or 2 after is a failure of thw quarantine period.Why didn't they test them before letting them out as they do in South Australia-they are a higher risk group and it really should be done.

And the woman who was quarantined in Sydney,developed symptoms but not tested but tested positive in SA the next day is absolutely a failure of the system.We will never know if she was responsible for infecting anyone else as those details are not disclosed.But it did occur just a few days before the ADL baggage handlers cluster was detected.

 

[p--and--t]

If there is still anyone not thoroughly over reading stuff about covid, here's several pages of a study.... (and why older people tend to suffer more)

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0548/v1/download

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The fact that people can come out of hotel quarantine and be found to be Covid positive a day or 2 after is a failure of thw quarantine period.Why didn't they test them before letting them out as they do in South Australia-they are a higher risk group and it really should be done.

And the woman who was quarantined in Sydney,developed symptoms but not tested but tested positive in SA the next day is absolutely a failure of the system.We will never know if she was responsible for infecting anyone else as those details are not disclosed.But it did occur just a few days before the ADL baggage handlers cluster was detected.

You stated that we need to be in the real world in replying to me.

But yet you live in a world of where there were enough tests to test all the returning travellers to Australia. This was not so.

So those responsible made real world decisions to put in place a quarantine process that that they had the resources and tests to implement. (As I have also stated as test supply improves who gets tested increases).

From what I have read there does not seem to have cases of people who were quarantined adequately infecting people after release.

And someone testing positive does not mean they are still contagious. Your posts seem to imply that all Covid 19 positive people are contagious.