General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[tgh]

As the hype machines wind up for a vaccine release , I opine that appearance of a category killer vaccine will trigger the biggest party in the history of the world.
The accompanying economic boom may also wipe out the Au Covid debt , sending the all ords into the stratosphere….

 

[Flashback]

Getting this toddler ready for a life of using the Qantas Club.

Tradies' heartwarming gesture for Perth toddler stuck in quarantine

The two-year-old's mother says a construction site kept him sane while locked inside, so the tradies responded.

7news.com.au

 

[Simo]

I am so over not travelling and just everything not being even close to a new normal...

I know it will get there!!!!

 

[p--and--t]

I am so over not travelling and just everything not being even close to a new normal...

I know it will get there!!!!

For the last 24hrs had the strong desire to jump in the car and drive until the tank is empty or I can't keep my eyes open any longer.

 

[p--and--t]

Who would have thought when I went into self imposed lockdown back in March I would be here on the same couch 174 days later.

Only a week to go to six months of my life I won't get back (and at my age remaining time is evaporating blindingly fast).

So many countries yet unexplored. So many people I didn't meet, so many foods I didn't try, so many beautiful sceneries not seen that would make my jaw drop, so many days since I have been unable to see my grand kids, so many precious months not been able to see my aging mother, so many fewer $ in my bank account.

Discustingly & selfishly feeling sorry for myself today when there are so many in a much worse off position than me, in normal times, regardless of covid.

Need to drag myself back to some reality as soon as I get this self indulgent post off my chest.

 

[SOPOOR]

ive stopped reading many online news articles, as I get angry when every second article is about covid conspiracy theorists, and their stupid behaviour

 

[SOPOOR]

Who would have thought when I went into self imposed lockdown back in March I would be here on the same couch 174 days later.

Only a week to go to six months of my life I won't get back (and at my age remaining time is evaporating blindingly fast).

So many countries yet unexplored. So many people I didn't meet, so many foods I didn't try, so many beautiful sceneries not seen that would make my jaw drop, so many days since I have been unable to see my grand kids, so many precious months not been able to see my aging mother, so many fewer $ in my bank account.

Discustingly & selfishly feeling sorry for myself today when there are so many in a much worse off position than me, in normal times, regardless of covid.

Need to drag myself back to some reality as soon as I get this self indulgent post off my chest.

morbid view I know, but I see it as there is nothing much I can do except abide by the rules and do my best,

and I see it as a life experience, one that makes me appreciate what matters to me in life, and to reassess my priorties in life

 

[VPS]

Sad but true

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sad but true

Haha. yes.

But I guess we have to ask how would any of us, personally, handle it differently?

I admit for the first time I am pretty confused by the rules! Not confused from a sense of how this will affect me, I'm going to continue isolation and go out once a week for food. But large chunks of text are not the easiest to digest!

Will wait for the news to summarise it for me

 

[drron]

A couple of interesting articles by a Palliative care physician.Suggests we really have to have a serious discussion on how we make decisions at the end of life.

COVID-19’s ethical dilemmas: conversations at the dinner table - InSight+

The need for guidelines for decision making for COVID-19 provides another opportunity for our leaders to show that our relationship with them is based on mutual trust, write Will Cairns and Rachel Coghlan

insightplus.mja.com.au

Palliative care during the COVID-19 pandemic - Palliative Care Australia

Promoting quality palliative care since 1991

palliativecare.org.au

 

[Pushka]

A couple of interesting articles by a Palliative care physician.Suggests we really have to have a serious discussion on how we make decisions at the end of life.

COVID-19’s ethical dilemmas: conversations at the dinner table - InSight+

The need for guidelines for decision making for COVID-19 provides another opportunity for our leaders to show that our relationship with them is based on mutual trust, write Will Cairns and Rachel Coghlan

insightplus.mja.com.au

Palliative care during the COVID-19 pandemic - Palliative Care Australia

Promoting quality palliative care since 1991

palliativecare.org.au

In this whole debate it has been an easy decision for me. I would not want my life saved before someone who is younger than me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A couple of interesting articles by a Palliative care physician.Suggests we really have to have a serious discussion on how we make decisions at the end of life.

COVID-19’s ethical dilemmas: conversations at the dinner table - InSight+

The need for guidelines for decision making for COVID-19 provides another opportunity for our leaders to show that our relationship with them is based on mutual trust, write Will Cairns and Rachel Coghlan

insightplus.mja.com.au

It should be up to the individual. Everyone should have the same opportunity for the same level of care, provided that level of care is safe (and won't do more harm than good).

It's slightly disturbing that a 20s-something individual who thinks covid is a conspiracy and refuses to follow health guidance should automatically get priority over a 70 year old nurse who has contributed to society for their whole life.

Doctors should not make these decisions. Governments should not make these decisions. First in, first served, if that's what the individual wants.

I find it strange some doctors believe they even have a role in this space. It's not their money. It's not their resources. They really have no decisions to make other than to advise the patient of their options and respond accordingly.

Thankfully we have not had to have this ugly and divisive debate in Australia.

 

[drron]

Unfortunately this debate has been going on every day around Australia for many years.
Of course it is up to the individual and their family but what I am talking about is in the medical setting so doctors and nurses are involved.
The sad part is when a person doesn't want futile treatment to continue but doesn't want to voice that opinion because they think they will be upsetting their family or the people looking after them.

 

[Pushka]

It's slightly disturbing that a 20s-something individual who thinks covid is a conspiracy and refuses to follow health guidance should automatically get priority over a 70 year old nurse who has contributed to society for their whole life.

And I would hate to think that numpty decisions I make as a twenty something defines my value to society as a 70 year old.
As Drron points out, let's say it is a case of one ventilator and two people needing one. No other option. These are the decisions that medical personnel must face.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Unfortunately this debate has been going on every day around Australia for many years.
Of course it is up to the individual and their family but what I am talking about is in the medical setting so doctors and nurses are involved.
The sad part is when a person doesn't want futile treatment to continue but doesn't want to voice that opinion because they think they will be upsetting their family or the people looking after them.

Maybe I have been a bit too harsh on the article.

Doctors want guidelines... and those guidelines could well be treat everyone equally, with care given on a first come, first served basis. The guidelines don't necessarily need to get into the decision of choices between people based on any notion of 'value'.

And I would hate to think that numpty decisions I make as a twenty something defines my value to society as a 70 year old.
As Drron points out, let's say it is a case of one ventilator and two people needing one. No other option. These are the decisions that medical personnel must face.

The first person who clinically needs it, even if that's by one minute, gets it (assuming they want it.)

 

[drron]

But not all 70+ year olds want to be part of that choice.They are happy that the younger person has the ventilator as they have achieved everything they had wanted from life.Or their existence is miserable and they are actually hoping something happens.

And it also comes up when their is not a choice between people involved.
One example from my past.An 80 year old with oesophageal cancer.Family was just 1 son.The son and his cancer doctors wanted him to have more treatment despite the fact that he had already had had chemotherapy,radiotherapy and a stent put in.He still was nauseated all the time and vomited when he tried to eat or drink so was fed by a nasogastric tube.
So I just asked him what he wanted.He said that nothing had helped so far and he was extremely miserable.So I asked him to talk it over with his son then tell me what the decision was.Well he didn't want any more treatment and that he just wanted to die so just give me things that take away my symptoms.But he finished by saying he was very happy to have been able to make his own decision.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I am glad I am not a medical person having to face that decision - can totally see why they would want to have guidelines and hope it’s not something they have to face in Australia with a lack of beds or ventilators.

I have already had a conversation with my kids - not about Covid, but general health issues and dementia. They know I don’t want to be kept alive at all costs and definitely not if I have lost mental abilities.

Dr FM had a situation 4 or 5 years ago where an elderly lady 90+ with dementia was brought into hospital with pneumonia. Dr FM discussed what the family’s wishes were for resuscitation and advised against it. They were outraged and said how would she feel if it was her mother. Dr FM immediately said my mother would come back and haunt me if I tried to resuscitate her!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But not all 70+ year olds want to be part of that choice.They are happy that the younger person has the ventilator as they have achieved everything they had wanted from life.Or their existence is miserable and they are actually hoping something happens.

And it also comes up when their is not a choice between people involved.
One example from my past.An 80 year old with oesophageal cancer.Family was just 1 son.The son and his cancer doctors wanted him to have more treatment despite the fact that he had already had had chemotherapy,radiotherapy and a stent put in.He still was nauseated all the time and vomited when he tried to eat or drink so was fed by a nasogastric tube.
So I just asked him what he wanted.He said that nothing had helped so far and he was extremely miserable.So I asked him to talk it over with his son then tell me what the decision was.Well he didn't want any more treatment and that he just wanted to die so just give me things that take away my symptoms.But he finished by saying he was very happy to have been able to make his own decision.

Absolutely agree. Which is why my comments were predicated on two things... (a) the person wants the treatment and (b) the treatment won’t do more harm than good.

The ‘ethics’ article was not about forcing care on those who don’t want it.

I dont even understand why some doctors feel the need to be in this space? In australia we have decided everyone gets care. Whether you’re an at-fault driver, have a criminal history (domestic abuse, sexual abuse), under the influence of drugs or alcohol, decide it’s a good idea to swim outside the flags. We treat everyone.

If there’s a 70 year old who doesn’t want to be part of the decision making process, there are probably 10 more who do?

 

[Pushka]

I dont even understand why some doctors feel the need to be in this space? In australia we have decided everyone gets care. Whether you’re an at-fault driver, have a criminal history (domestic abuse, sexual abuse), under the influence of drugs or alcohol, decide it’s a good idea to swim outside the flags. We treat everyone.

Because they currently experience it in multitude of situations? There simply is not a never ending supply of ICU beds.

 

[VPS]

The problem you have is that you have some "famous" people who are advocating breaking the rules. UK about to limit the number of people to 6 in a gathering and you get this cough suggesting this

Edit the word twit originally had an a instead of an i - maybe I shouldn't use that word