General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[Austman]

Well, he went to work when he was likely infectious didn't he!

According to you and perhaps the Victoria health minister. Are either of you a doctor?

The actual doctor thought otherwise it seems.

 

[Pushka]

According to you and perhaps the Victoria health minister. Are either of you a doctor?

Nothing to do with my assessment. The clinic has temporarily closed until Tuesday (PH on Monday) , the 70 patients contacted and asked to be watchful, and the two elderly patients he visited are in quarantine and he is in self isolation..

 

[Austman]

Nothing to do with my assessment.

You said he was "likely infectious". That's totally your assessment unless it can be found elsewhere that a "runny nose" that has resolved means "likely infectious".

The doctor himself thought he didn't have COVID-19. Or anything much else. That's why he went to work.

 

[juddles]

I get that a doctor becoming an inadvertent spreader can gain some negative attention, and it can easily be argued that a doctor should have been far more prudent, but I always like to give the benefit of the doubt. In almost all areas and on all issues people these days suffer the "hindsight is 20:20" syndrome.

ALL comments and feelings on this matter are based on your knowledge that was gained from just a few lines in news reports.... and all the writers of same are relying on outrage to get more of those damn "clicks" that they need

 

[Pushka]

You said he was "likely infectious". That's totally your assessment unless it can be found elsewhere that a "runny nose" that has resolved means "likely infectious".

The doctor himself thought he didn't have COVID-19. Or anything much else. That's why he went to work.

Well yes, all true. My "assessment" here which is completely meaningless but also those who are making decisions about the patients he treated and their subsequent actions. The fact that in the end he did get the test means that on some level he had the suspicion he may have been exposed. And it's just what we read in the media. The experts have the facts.

 

[juddles]

I get that a doctor becoming an inadvertent spreader can gain some negative attention, and it can easily be argued that a doctor should have been far more prudent, but I always like to give the benefit of the doubt. In almost all areas and on all issues people these days suffer the "hindsight is 20:20" syndrome.

ALL comments and feelings on this matter are based on your knowledge that was gained from just a few lines in news reports.... and all the writers of same are relying on outrage to get more of those damn "clicks" that they need

Further examples of this hindsight 20:20 syndrome....

(A) Last week I had a mild sore throat. I did not miss work, I felt generally OK, and I have not travelled overseas this year. But I have heard so much about Corona that I went to the local hospital and insisted I get tested for COVID-19. It came back negative. And ever since I have been abused because I wasted a test kit and medical people's time..... Is that fair?

(B) Last week I had a mild sore throat. I did not miss work, I felt generally OK, so although being aware of Coronavirus, I did not think it warranted me using up medical resources to get tested. But then a friend got really sick and was diagnosed with Corona. His contacts were quickly investigated and got tracked back to me. I was tested and went positive. Further investigation revealed that some of my other friends who I associate with are frequent travellers. Then a media report came out - I was the "super-spreader" who, even though sick and cavorting with frequent travellers, did not "bother" to get tested or self-isolate even though I CLEARLY was unwell. I am now ostracised by my local community as a villain... Is this fair?

 

[Pushka]

Further examples of this hindsight 20:20 syndrome....

(A) Last week I had a mild sore throat. I did not miss work, I felt generally OK, and I have not travelled overseas this year. But I have heard so much about Corona that I went to the local hospital and insisted I get tested for COVID-19. It came back negative. And ever since I have been abused because I wasted a test kit and medical people's time..... Is that fair?

(B) Last week I had a mild sore throat. I did not miss work, I felt generally OK, so although being aware of Coronavirus, I did not think it warranted me using up medical resources to get tested. But then a friend got really sick and was diagnosed with Corona. His contacts were quickly investigated and got tracked back to me. I was tested and went positive. Further investigation revealed that some of my other friends who I associate with are frequent travellers. Then a media report came out - I was the "super-spreader" who, even though sick and cavorting with frequent travellers, did not "bother" to get tested or self-isolate even though I CLEARLY was unwell. I am now ostracised by my local community as a villain... Is this fair?

Sadly at the moment we need to go down the A route but I can't imagine anyone being abused for being tested, self isolated until the results, and it later showed up as negative.

 

[amaroo]

I understand, but I'm just simply saying that we should not let this sort of vile anger and vitriol override basic humanity.

At the end of the day, you have someone who is sick, let's help him get better. Rather than seeing him as some sort of "walking virus", perhaps see him as a human who was just unlucky to be sick, who made decisions which might not have been the best, but were generally understandable in context.

He's been treated worse than a criminal.

First and foremost - let's not leave out the "just arrived from international travel" bit....

The medical advice has been stay home if sick - why would it be different for people having intimate contact with others? Is the advice right or wrong?

He's been called out - chastised if you like, nowhere near being treated as a criminal.

 

[burmans]

This is a doctor (a GP) we are talking about. I suspect they'd know about that.

Probably somewhat better than those well meaning but probably poorly informed individuals on this forum.

 

[amaroo]

In regards to doctors working when sick - the health system runs short staffed as a rule. If you don't go in, then sick people don't get care. Simple as that. Since most are in it because they genuinely care - they work. The system would fall to a heap in a week otherwise.

I remember a particularly interesting night shift where I inserted an arterial line, threw up in the clinical waste bin, scoffed an ondansetron, and took my turn at CPR. All in less than 2 mins. Irresponsible? Yes. But what's the alternative? There was no one else.

I'm reminded of that saying - Rookwood is full of indispensable people...

 

[Austman]

The fact that in the end he did get the test means that on some level he had the suspicion he may have been exposed

As reported. He did it only to be sure:

"I hesitated to do a swab because I did not fulfil your criteria for testing but did one anyway on Thursday evening for sake of completeness, not imagining for one moment it would turn out to be positive."

He had been to the USA. Hardly a COVID-19 epicenter.

 

[amaroo]

This is a doctor (a GP) we are talking about. I suspect they'd know about that.

Evidently not!

 

[Pushka]

As reported. He did it only to be sure:

"I hesitated to do a swab because I did not fulfil your criteria for testing but did one anyway on Thursday evening for sake of completeness, not imagining for one moment it would turn out to be positive."

He had been to the USA. Hardly a COVID-19 epicenter. Bravo doctor.

Agree on that point that US isn't a hot spot. Probably now we know why. They simply haven't been testing. Suspect it is very much like Indonesia. I do agree that it is very unfortunate that his identity has been released. That was unnecessary. On the other hand there would have been 70 people notified and his Identity being made public was probable because of that. I don't think it was the Minister that released his name but am happy to be corrected.

 

[juddles]

.....

He had been to the USA. Hardly a COVID-19 epicenter. ...

This bit i disagree with. Not in your beliefs, but in the reality that is so under-reported. The USA is an absolute hotspot for this bug. Probably only second to the originating China in importance.

The USA is the worlds most affluent nation, with, hand in hand, the greatest number of world travellers. It is also a nation with a health care system that is "unique" (trying not to use a descriptive here that starts with the letters "fuc...."

The US does not have the diabolical one-party, iron fisted rulership that China has, but they have influences that are perhaps even more powerful than any simple Emperor or equivalent. The entire US health system very actively tries to disuade anyone from using it. Using sheer cost. Dollars being the standard and universal currency / lingo in the true home of capitalism.

For Christ's sake, even after a few months where dozens and dozens of meeker countries had identified Corona cases, the USA had not even managed to actually test anyone!!

There will be as many individuals with Corona today in the USA as in Iran or Italy. And the USA has the economic strength to pass this on, both within their own community and to other countries...

The USA is, IMHO, a truly strong "COVID-19 epicentre"

 

[amaroo]

Agree on that point that US isn't a hot spot. Probably now we know why. They simply haven't been testing. Suspect it is very much like Indonesia. I do agree that it is very unfortunate that his identity has been released. That was unnecessary. On the other hand there would have been 70 people notified and his Identity being made public was probable because of that. I don't think it was the Minister that released his name but am happy to be corrected.

If I was one of 70 or associated with them - it's been a good public announcement. No matter how benign you think this bug it.

 

[Pushka]

This bit i disagree with. Not in your beliefs, but in the reality that is so under-reported. The USA is an absolute hotspot for this bug. Probably only second to the originating China in importance.

The USA is the worlds most affluent nation, with, hand in hand, the greatest number of world travellers. It is also a nation with a health care system that is "unique" (trying not to use a descriptive here that starts with the letters "fuc...."

The US does not have the diabolical one-party, iron fisted rulership that China has, but they have influences that are perhaps even more powerful than any simple Emperor or equivalent. The entire US health system very actively tries to disuade anyone from using it. Using sheer cost. Dollars being the standard and universal currency / lingo in the true home of capitalism.

For Christ's sake, even after a few months where dozens and dozens of meeker countries had identified Corona cases, the USA had not even managed to actually test anyone!!

There will be as many individuals with Corona today in the USA as in Iran or Italy. And the USA has the economic strength to pass this on, both within their own community and to other countries...

The USA is, IMHO, a truly strong "COVID-19 epicentre"

Yes but at the time there were no real reasons to suspect that the US was any more vulnerable than say Germany. And that they simply weren't testing. I think that's hindsight. It's interesting reading on Cruise Critic where the Americans have been saying they feel at no risk cruising close to home. And I thought the same. Not now.

 

[juddles]

Yes but at the time there were no real reasons to suspect that the US was any more vulnerable than say Germany. And that they simply weren't testing. I think that's hindsight. .....

It is not "hindsight" to criticize a country with literally millions of international travellers failing to actually check any of them. They were criticized from Day One.

 

[Pushka]

It is not "hindsight" to criticize a country with literally millions of international travellers failing to actually check any of them. They were criticized from Day One.

I must have missed that.

 

[juddles]

I must have missed that.

I believe the actual number of tests (not positives) was about 400 at the start of this month. Can you beleive that!!??

It is now only into the small-thousands.

Exclusive: The Strongest Evidence Yet That America Is Botching Coronavirus Testing

“I don’t know what went wrong,” a former CDC chief told The Atlantic.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[I love to travel]

I wonder whether we are going to break the AFF server with how much we are all posting. Sorry @Admin