General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[andye]

Israel is often given as an example of the importance of boosters due to breakthrough but based on this have pretty ordinary vaccination rates (I'm guessing due to some sections of the population having better coverage than others).
Having said that Singapore looks high and not completely plain sailing there

 

[Lynda2475]

based on this have pretty ordinary vaccination rates

Exactly.

Interesting to note that whilst a lot of Europe is seeing surging cases after stagnant vaccine uptake, Portugal is bucking this trend - why? Well because they are at almost 90% fully vaccinated.

Also interesting to note WHO have changed their tune, a month ago they were berating EU and otehr western nations for rolling out boosters, now they are saying boosters needed to ensure this huge new wave in Europe.

 

[andye]

Anyone know what has happened to Emirati children? They can't all be in English boarding schools.
Or is the migrant worker population enough to skew demographics of eligible population

 

[andye]

Anyone know what has happened to Emirati children? They can't all be in English boarding schools.
Or is the migrant worker population enough to skew demographics of eligible population

It probably is:

 

[jrfsp]

Exactly.

Interesting to note that whilst a lot of Europe is seeing surging cases after stagnant vaccine uptake, Portugal is bucking this trend - why? Well because they are at almost 90% fully vaccinated.

Also interesting to note WHO have changed their tune, a month ago they were berating EU and otehr western nations for rolling out boosters, now they are saying boosters needed to ensure this huge new wave in Europe.

I actually think Portugal and Spain are doing better because of their climate, with people socializing a lot more outdoors than northern Europe. The vaccinations rates of a few percent wouldnt make that much difference. Netherlands is at 89% first dose and 85% second dose. Others are even higher, Ireland is first among the 27 countries with 93 per cent coverage, followed by Portugal, Malta, Denmark, Belgium and Spain. Cases are skyrocketing in Ireland, Denmark &Belgium.

 

[Lynda2475]

Belgium is only at 75% that is considerably lower than 89+% in Portugal. It helps Portugal's nearest neighbour is doing well, but they have amongst the highest rates of vaccination for all preventable diseases in EU.

Compare with Germany and Austria where cases are climbing at alarming rates and you have a very vocal anti-vxer movements.

Weather has been disproved time and time again - just need to look at Brazil and south east asia, warmer climbs don't mean lower case loads.

 

[jrfsp]

Ireland and Denmark have vaccination rates comparable to Portugal but yet cases are getting out of control.

Of course weather [climate] plays a factor. The risk of virus transmission is higher in an indoor setting. A Japanese study from Spring 2020 that examined 110 cases of COVID-19 and their transmission pathways found that "the odds that a primary case transmitted COVID-19 in a closed environment was 18.7 times greater compared to an open-air environment."

Even Portugal is looking at bringing back restrictions.

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2021-11-24/portugal-sees-jump-in-covid-19-cases-eyes-restrictions

The reality is vaccinate fade is setting in and socializing has moved indoors for northern Europe causing their current wave.

 

[Lynda2475]

Portugal sensibly has a booster program in flight. Its currently experiencing weekly case loads at 15% of its previous peak, as is Sweden (a cold climate).

Greece oto is currently at highest infection rate at any point in the pandemic and has a climate very similar to Portugal.

From Reuters:

 

[Jenya]

Dr Norman Swan motioned that AZ protection weakens quicker than Pfizer 4 months vs 6 months

Norman Swan has been wrong about a lot of things So before I believe you please cite a proper study.

Be skeptical of all published data.

How they actually calculate this waning protection level? purely on hospitalization rate out of double dosed?
That's good point to be skeptical to this reports as immune reaction is so individual thing.
I would only fully trust my own experience based on confirmed antibodies level on various times following second dose.
Hot topic for me now as I booked for LA flight in December but really hesitant to go without understanding level of antibodies i still got. As it will be 5 month since second dose would be still not eligible for booster jab.
Got blood test gone for IgG antibodies but report is only showing "positive" so I got some but how much exactly go figure.... its not quantitative value.
May be its already close to low limit

 

[N860CR]

as is Sweden (a cold climate).

It does seem Sweden is benefiting from it's more logical management of the pandemic from day 1.

 

[Lynda2475]

I am trying to decide whether to stay in the UK during my trip next Aug or do a side trip and Portugal is looking to be a great option, so am watching with interest to see how they continue to fair.

 

[jrfsp]

Portugal sensibly has a booster program in flight. Its currently experiencing weekly case loads at 15% of its previous peak, as is Sweden (a cold climate).

Greece oto is currently at highest infection rate at any point in the pandemic and has a climate very similar to Portugal.

From Reuters:

View attachment 265813

View attachment 265814

But Greece's vaccination rate is nowhere near Portugal's.

Hence the comparison between European countries with very similar vaccinations rates with different climates and lifestyles.

Why is Denmark & Ireland's cases so different to Portugal & Spain?

 

[Lynda2475]

But Greece's vaccination rate is nowhere near Portugal's.

But its not far off Sweden's (both under 70%) and Sweden is much much colder than Greece; so if climate was material then Greece should be fairing much better.

 

[jrfsp]

But its not far off Sweden's (both under 70%) and Sweden is much much colder than Greece; so if climate was material then Greece should be fairing much better.

Socio economics? Sweden has managed the pandemic very differently throughout - they also have a small population with the highest rate of single households in the world which would play a significant part.

 

[Jenya]

I am trying to decide

so in order to decide it may be way more critical to determine your individual level of protection just before you go, rather then worry about situation in particular country you wish to visit.
If you still have high antibodies count your risk greatly reduced anyway...

 

[drron]

In colder countries people are more likely to congregate indoors in cold weather because of heating therefore in winter.
In tropical countries people are more likely to congregate indoors during hot weather because of air conditioning hence summer.

 

[Lynda2475]

I will be quadruple vaxed by the time I go (will get boosters in January and July) but local spread is still a factor, and also determines how easy it is to transit through the countries on my itinerary and how much testing is needed.

Need to look at how the country you are travelling from views next destination etc. I dont want to spend any of my holiday in ISO waiting for test results unless i actually have covid.

 

[Lynda2475]

In tropical countries people are more likely to congregate indoors during hot weather because of air conditioning hence summer.

Actually tropical countries have very small difference between temperatures years round only about 10C, so when you look at places like Singapore and Brazil the surges are not seasonal at all.

 

[drron]

Actually tropical countries have very small difference between temperatures years round only about 10C, so when you look at places like Singapore and Brazil the surges are not seasonal at all.

But there are very distinct differences in how people cope in tropical zones.When it is very humid people are more likely to head indoors than when it is a dry heat.I experience this even on the Sunshine Coast. Particularly noticeable in Bangkok which we visit 3 or more times a year.Not pleasant in the wet season but OK in the dry.

 

[Jenya]

I will be quadruple vaxed by the time I go (will get boosters in January and July)

Quadruple!
There are opinions that just 3 jabs may be enough for long time protection.
But how do you ensure?
Point I am trying to make is 4-th and even third jab may not be necessary based on individual immune reaction, but in Australia It is apparently impossible to get proper blood test with quantitative value in Bau/ml. Frustrating.
So ppl will be taking more jabs then they really need unnecessary increasing risk of side effects.
And it just would be just interesting to compare your individual numbers before and after the jab.

May be its something to do with most advanced, best funded healthcare system in the world, unable to deliver such simple things