General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[Pushka]

No doubt there is benefit from first shot, however i would expect that to quality for a vaccine passport you will have had to received both recommended doses, the first shot alone is unlikely to allow one to be able to travel internationally wnd return without HQ, which is what i was raising.

So someone getting Pfizer will have both doses within a month, but anyone getting AZ has a 12 week wait to be considered fully vaccinated. Since the people most likely to get AZ are in groups 3, 4 and 5 - we have the longer vaccination journey and will be last to be able to get vaccine passports.

Wh8ch means i cant plan any international travel before 2022, but an oldie who gets pfizer may beable to travel tnis Oct 9r Nov (if Qantas gets it way).

I get your frustration because it simply is. But my two cents, for what that’s worth. I don’t think there will be unfettered travel until 2022 anyway. And by then the people who received the vaccine now might well be needing a booster to stay current in 12 months time.

 

[drron]

The results from 1 dose of the Oxford vaccine in Scotland are impressive.

Findings: The first dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine was associated with a vaccine effect of 85% (95% confidence interval [CI] 76 to 91) for COVID-19 related hospitalisation at 28-34 days post-vaccination. Vaccine effect at the same time interval for the ChAdOx1 vaccine was 94% (95% CI 73 to 99). Results of combined vaccine effect for prevention of COVID-19 related hospitalisation were comparable when restricting the analysis to those aged ≥80 years (81%; 95% CI 65 to 90 at 28-34 days post-vaccination).

If those figures continue then why would travel need to be restricted after 4-5 weeks of the Oxford vaccine.

 

[Pushka]

If those figures continue then why would travel need to be restricted after 4-5 weeks of the Oxford vaccine

That 4-5 weeks must be translated across the nation so it can only be realised at that time period after the last person wanting the vaccine has received it.

 

[Lynda2475]

If those figures continue then why would travel need to be restricted after 4-5 weeks of the Oxford vaccine

Because our politicians are so risk adverse they will insist on the 2 recommended doses in order to issue the certificate, and there is currently 12 weeks between the first and second shots on their schedule.

 

[Must...Fly!]

In the near term hopefully as vaccinations ramp up it will mean less lockdown and border closures, and a continued focus on robust contact tracing and self isolation. Then once the vaccination has been widely distributed, things open properly.

Good to hear AZ sites are being approved. There is so much supply of that coming - proven vaccine - hopefully we can remain optomistic about the coming months.

 

[drron]

Because our politicians are so risk adverse they will insist on the 2 recommended doses in order to issue the certificate, and there is currently 12 weeks between the first and second shots on their schedule.

So it is going to be a political decision and not based on medical advice.

So it is about time the Federal Government treat us as adults and set out their proposed timeline for easing of travel restrictions.
The evidence keeps getting stronger.The figures for the UK as of yesterday.

 

[Toula92122]

So it is going to be a political decision and not based on medical advice.

So it is about time the Federal Government treat us as adults and set out their proposed timeline for easing of travel restrictions.
The evidence keeps getting stronger.The figures for the UK as of yesterday.

I totally agree with you. So tired of being treated like a child and being told nothing. The failure to tell us what the plan is makes me believe there is no plan and they are making it all up on the fly. I feel it's all being done for political reasons, so they campaign on keeping Australians safe with no recognition of the economic damage that will be caused the longer the international border is closed. I'm probably more fortunate than most in that I can go when I want based on current rules and at some stage I just may do that if I lose trust in the speed of the vaccination program and what the intent is to reopen the borders.

 

[oznflfan]

I totally agree with you. So tired of being treated like a child and being told nothing. The failure to tell us what the plan is makes me believe there is no plan and they are making it all up on the fly. I feel it's all being done for political reasons, so they campaign on keeping Australians safe with no recognition of the economic damage that will be caused the longer the international border is closed. I'm probably more fortunate than most in that I can go when I want based on current rules and at some stage I just may do that if I lose trust in the speed of the vaccination program and what the intent is to reopen the borders.

OF COURSE THE ARE MAKING IT UP ON THE FLY.

They still think the only reason people want international borders open is to get cheap drinks and sit by the pool in Bali, and if they block this, Aussies will spend their money here and the local tourism businesses will be OK.

 

[Seat0B]

Re my earlier post #33 in this thread, here is an update. Things moved a bit differently in the UAE to what was anticipated at the time of posting - my son and his lovely GF have now both had their first vaccination shots of Astra Zeneca vaccine (manufactured in India) for free provided by the UAE Government. Thanks to the UAE govt from me. Although they are both young (almost 30), they reported no side effects except a bit of a sore arm. They are glad to have been vaccinated given the high levels of COVID in the UAE at the moment. So I think that's a good result all round.

 

[dk4]

If those figures continue then why would travel need to be restricted after 4-5 weeks of the Oxford vaccine.

Not all vaccines will be considered equal. Any vaccine passport will list which vaccine an individual has taken.

Some countries will accept some vaccines as legitimate for travel, and reject others.

For example in Australia, Sinovac and Sputnik V have not been listed as approved treatments for covid-19, and travellers with vaccine passports listing these may be rejected. The situation could also happen in reverse to Australians wanting to travel, in regards to Oxford/AstraZeneca where other countries have not approved it! e.g. South Africa Abandons Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 Vaccine In Favor Of Unapproved Johnson & Johnson Shot

So it is going to be a political decision and not based on medical advice.

Probably a bit of both...

 

[Lynda2475]

So it is going to be a political decision and not based on medical advice

Combination im sure.

But the current accepted approval here from the TGA is that two doses of both the current vaccines are required, therefore im sure you will need to get both to receive the vaccination certificate. If TGA decide to change the approved dossage then things could chnage.

M3dicwl addvvice from other jurisdictions wont chnage policy here unless TGA endoorse it.

 

[Toula92122]

The priority right now is to get the people that most need the vaccine to get those doses first. Storage is all part of the process so that the order of distribution is maintained. We are not in the life and death situation that say the USA or the UK are in.

We may not be in a life or death situation like other countries, however I find it totally unacceptable to use that as an excuse for this continued fumbling. It's not as if the vaccination program was something that was thrown onto the scene in the past 24 hours with no prior notice. It's a bit like international borders and getting stranded Australians home and hotel quarantine. We are a year down the track and what progress has been made on developing a program to suit the needs? It's one flub after another. If senior management had a similar performance in private enterprise someone would have been shown the door long again. There is almost a sense of smugness in Oz, we think we are clever because we have avoided the worst of CV. If anything we were lucky that the initial decision to close borders happened early. Not sure that same sense of smugness is going to be around once the rest of the world is vaccinated while we dither and they return to normal and recover economically. Here the attitude seems to be throw a sporting event on to distract the mindless masses, pump out increased government benefits in an effort to buy votes for what is obviously posturing for a forthcoming election and throw out more subsidies to distract from the real issue. Once again lack of any real journalism in Oz means they can get away with it.

 

[drron]

Some countries are well down the track now with Covid vaccination.


Countries that have bought the J & J vaccine.


Those that have had Covid and have positive antibody testing have an increased production of antibodies with one shot of the Pfizer vaccine.Being suggested they need only 1 dose which will speed up the vaccination process.

Antibody response to first dose of COVID-19 vaccine BNT162b2 in previously SARS-CoV-2-infected individuals

Findings from a study published in The Lancet provide a rationale for serology-based coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccine dosing to maximise coverage and impact. “The impact of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection on the need for boosting is not known,” wrote Charlotte Manisty, University...

dgalerts.docguide.com

 

[DC3]

... We are a year down the track and what progress has been made on developing a program to suit the needs? It's one flub after another. If senior management had a similar performance in private enterprise someone would have been shown the door long again. There is almost a sense of smugness in Oz, we think we are clever because we have avoided the worst of CV. If anything we were lucky that the initial decision to close borders happened early. Not sure that same sense of smugness is going to be around once the rest of the world is vaccinated while we dither and they return to normal ...

Exactly. Smugness sums it up. And it starts right at the top.

Do we really need to be constantly reminded by the leadership as to “how lucky we are in Australia” regarding COVID? I just want the vax rolled out.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Some countries are well down the track now with Covid vaccination.
View attachment 242293

Countries that have bought the J & J vaccine.
View attachment 242294

Those that have had Covid and have positive antibody testing have an increased production of antibodies with one shot of the Pfizer vaccine.Being suggested they need only 1 dose which will speed up the vaccination process.

Antibody response to first dose of COVID-19 vaccine BNT162b2 in previously SARS-CoV-2-infected individuals

Findings from a study published in The Lancet provide a rationale for serology-based coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccine dosing to maximise coverage and impact. “The impact of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection on the need for boosting is not known,” wrote Charlotte Manisty, University...

dgalerts.docguide.com

The first graph is a little misleading dose/per 100 people.

There is another statistic graph # people with at least 1 dose/per 100 people. Eg I think Israel is at about low-mid 50% range (and about mid 30% are 2-dose fully vaccinated)

 

[Anna]

I listened to a BBC news podcast the other day that talked about the vaccine and described Australia as being in the 'extremely slow' category on a global comparison of vaccination rates.

I didn't so much mind the govt pretending to be 'cautious'* about the vaccine but the implementation now that it's finally here has been woeful. SA Health even had to issue amended vaccination figures the other day because they had miscounted already on about day 2 of the vaccine rollout. And so far they've only managed to administer just over 300 vaccinations per day in SA

*As opposed to, say, having been too slow to get supply contracts in place in time with the right pharma companies.

 

[Pushka]

I listened to a BBC news podcast the other day that talked about the vaccine and described Australia as being in the 'extremely slow' category on a global comparison of vaccination rates.

I didn't so much mind the govt pretending to be 'cautious'* about the vaccine but the implementation now that it's finally here has been woeful. SA Health even had to issue amended vaccination figures the other day because they had miscounted already on about day 2 of the vaccine rollout. And so far they've only managed to administer just over 300 vaccinations per day in SA

*As opposed to, say, having been too slow to get supply contracts in place in time with the right pharma companies.

I don’t have much faith either. So hope I’m wrong.

 

[drron]

The Americans think we are slow.predicting our roll out will go into 2022.


And more on Israels rollout.The vaccine effect with the Pfizer shot doesn't seem any better than the English or Scottish results with the AZ vaccine.

Study suggests high effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccine BNT162b2 in a nationwide mass vaccination setting

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccine BNT162b2 showed high effectiveness at preventing infection in a nationwide mass vaccination setting, similar to the vaccine efficacy reported in the randomised trial, according to a study published in The New England Journal of Medicine. The study...

dgalerts.docguide.com

In Those that have Covid evidence that it does offer substantial protection from re infection.

Individuals who are seropositive for SARS-CoV-2 may have decreased risk of future infection: Study

Individuals who were seropositive for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) may be at decreased future risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection, according to a study published in JAMA Internal Medicine. “In this cohort study of more than 3.2 million US patients with a SARS-CoV-2...

dgalerts.docguide.com

A new side effect which caused initial problems in breast screening -axillary lymphadenopathy after the Pfizer vaccine.

COVID-19 vaccination-associated axillary adenopathy

A study published in the American Journal of Roentgenology reported incidence of axillary adenopathy in 23 women after recent coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccination.“We report the largest sample to our knowledge of COVID-19 vaccine associated axillary adenopathy on imaging,” wrote...

dgalerts.docguide.com

And Lufthansa considering vaccination flights to Russia for those wanting to be vaccinated earlier.

Lufthansa May Offer Moscow Vaccine Flights

Lufthansa and Russia's foreign ministry are allegedly in negotiations about offering special vaccine tourism flights.

onemileatatime.com

 

[Lynda2475]

Its not just the Americans, Casey Briggs was presented estimates from a UK study last week which also had them predicting Australia only by mid 2022. I just cant see the job being finished (everyone who wants 2 doses has had them) by end of October. I hope I am wrong, but government doesnt have a good track record for large programs.

 

[Anna]

We may not be in a life or death situation like other countries, however I find it totally unacceptable to use that as an excuse for this continued fumbling.

Totally agree.

As an epidemiologist on the ABC said recently about the govt making the excuse that we don't have an emergency in Australia - if the govt doesn't think that snap lockdowns of entire states constitute an emergency then they have a strange definition of 'emergency'.