General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[OATEK]

Lockdowns are fine, as long as they are voluntary for the general public, and otherwise targeted at the most vulnerable.

 

[drron]

And you are arguing a point i didn't make. I said Flu is mild for MOST younger people (i never specifically called out infants, under 5s do not constitute most younger people).

However you are arguing about under 5 mortality rate being same as over 70s for Flu with no reference to what % of under 5s (or younger people as a whole) end up hospitalised with Flu? Even in a bad year like 2017 MOST (as in majority of) younger people who go the flu did not end up seriously ill nor in hospital so again I stand by my assertion.

Your can continue to present arguments for a point I didn't make, but that doesn't make my assertion wrong.

Covid vaccines should be modified for the variants actually still circulating, otherwise they server no ongoing purpose. AZ, Pfizer and Moderna have all claimed they can produce variant specific vaccines, those who are doing the purchasing (aka governments) should be holding them to deliver these.

Its clear you dont see any value, you can choose not to get boosted. Whereas when variant tweaked boosters become available I will certainly get one.

The point I am making which you ignore because you obviously don't like being questioned is that Influenza is on average more severe than covid in younger people especially infants.
After my last reply there was an article on Brisbane Channel 7 news about how they are seeing many more children being admitted in the last 2 weeks with influenza.

 

[DC3]

The ignore button is your friend, including in this thread.

 

[Chalkie]

Here's the announcement from Moderna about its variant-specific boosters: Moderna Announcement. The Phase II/III study paper is here.

Key text:

"[Moderna announced new clinical data on its] first bivalent booster candidate, mRNA-1273.211, which includes mutations found in the Beta variant of concern, several of which have been persistent in more recent variants of concern including Omicron. A50 µg booster dose ofmRNA-1273.211 demonstrated superiority against Beta, Delta and Omicron variants of concern one month after administration. Superiority continued six months after administration for Beta and Omicron variants of concern as well. A50 µg booster dose ofmRNA-1273.211 was generally well tolerated with a reactogenicity profile comparable to a booster dose of mRNA-1273 at the 50 µg dose level."​

Bear in mind that this study looked only at neutralising antibodies, and there were no B or T cell investigations conducted. It's also worthy of note that Moderna has announced that this bivalent vaccine won't be the subject of an application for regulatory approval. It appears to be part of a data collecting exercise to support an application for regulatory approval of mRNA-1273.214 which is aimed at Omicron specifically.

 

[drron]

And that is for the Beta variant, delta was in july last year so it has taken more than 6 months. And agreed neutralising antibody levels are a poor indicator of efficacy against infection.
By the way the original Phase 3 Trials are not over yet. the Pfizer Phase 3 trial is not due to finish until February 2024. So any pronouncements on side effects are premature until that trial is reported.

Interestingly a supplementary report asked for by the FDA was released recently. Interesting reading but tedious.

file:///C:/Users/rondo/Downloads/reissue_5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

This is interesting.


So there was no significant evidence of vaccine efficacy at the time of the initial reports.
More worrying is the potential risk of Vaccine Associated Enhanced Disease.
Now Pfizer is meant to undertake ongoing surveillance for this but a whistle blower said that is not happening though Pfizer denies those claims.

 

[drron]

In those under 18 cardiac MRIs still show some abnormalities after vaccine induced myocarditis even though the patients feel normal. Not known if this will lead to problems later in life.

 

[Must...Fly!]

In those under 18 cardiac MRIs still show some abnormalities after vaccine induced myocarditis even though the patients feel normal. Not known if this will lead to problems later in life.

Is there a bulk of evidence in 5-11 year old yet? I'm glad I'm not a parent with a child in that age group, as I think I would find it very hard to know what the right thing to do was

 

[CaptainCurtis]

In those under 18 cardiac MRIs still show some abnormalities after vaccine induced myocarditis even though the patients feel normal. Not known if this will lead to problems later in life.

Have you got a link to the source so I can read more?

Probably explains why my cardiologist recommended I repeat my MRI at the 12-month mark. Certainly not cheap and not easy to access.

 

[Gavros333]

In those under 18 cardiac MRIs still show some abnormalities after vaccine induced myocarditis even though the patients feel normal. Not known if this will lead to problems later in life.

Why do you think they are continually pushing the vaccine on the younger population? Doesn't seem like the risk / benefit ratio is in favour of vaccination in these age groups. Especially with the amount of adverse events, some serious.
I'm no expert so it bewilders me. I'm "fully vaccinated" but I can tell you now, I didn't get it for protection. Unvaccinated family and friends are getting the same symptoms (or even lesser) as those vaccinated. That's my personal experience.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Unvaccinated family and friends are getting the same symptoms (or even lesser) as those vaccinated. That's my personal experience.

Same at my workplace. The unvaxxed and vaxxed are getting similar symptoms (similar duration too).

If you get the vaccine and it really only lasts about 3 to 4 months, what is the point of jabbing kids?

 

[Gavros333]

Same at my workplace. The unvaxxed and vaxxed are getting similar symptoms (similar duration too).

If you get the vaccine and it really only lasts about 3 to 4 months, what is the point of jabbing kids?

Exactly. I wonder if in time, the data shows that it was a wrong move?

 

[drron]

Sorry I forgot the link.

DEFINE_ME

The number of males far exceeds the number of females. In this study it was 15 to 1.Withe the younger age group having a far lower incidence of severe covid it certainly would make me wonder whether it was really essential for a young male to be vaccinated. The incidence is far more in this age group than older ages.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Have you got a link to the source so I can read more?

Probably explains why my cardiologist recommended I repeat my MRI at the 12-month mark. Certainly not cheap and not easy to access.

Maybe the follow up will be covered by Medicare - Jan 2022 to Dec 2022 (unless shortened or extended)

http://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/Factsheet-mRNA-Myo

 

[QF WP]

I read this comment on @shillard’s LinkedIn feed and trying to locate the original study to read if (assuming I can understand it):

“William Farr's "law of epidemics" (1840) shows that all epidemics follow a similar pattern. He applied it to smallpox, typhoid and scarlet fever - same pattern.

Later researchers have applied it to AIDS, SARS, influenza, polio... same pattern.

Guess which pattern COVID-19 has followed, regardless of what individual countries do about it?

Fun fact: Farr's contemporary was Charles Mackay, who only one year later published "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds". Make of that what you will.

Two intellectual giants from the same era, publishing works that are so relevant for today. Such a shame that their wisdom seems to have gone missing over the past 2 years...”

 

[QF WP]

Some further good information. Of course there’s good information on both sides. But I’d still rather be vaccinated than not.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Same at my workplace. The unvaxxed and vaxxed are getting similar symptoms (similar duration too).

If you get the vaccine and it really only lasts about 3 to 4 months, what is the point of jabbing kids?

I work in a 100% vaccinated workplace. Some of those with covid have been really sick, thankfully no hospitalisations.

I guess increasing the sphere of vaccination provides some opportunity to build herd immunity, flatten the curve, or break the cycle.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I work in a 100% vaccinated workplace. Some of those with covid have been really sick, thankfully no hospitalisations.

I guess increasing the sphere of vaccination provides some opportunity to build herd immunity, flatten the curve, or break the cycle.

Same here. Have at least two in hospital I know of. One of them you'd never think would be hospitalised. Unsure if boosted or not, but anyway, it's obvious vaccination helps but is not stopping anything.

 

[Pushka]

SIL has moved back to A&E after being in the vaccination clinic. Her job is to RAT everyone who enters. Including staff. She says so many positive peeps are arriving at about Day 3. They know they are positive but think they are dying but in reality just suffering the symptoms known by those who’ve caught flu. And not dying. One lass spent the whole day in a seat waiting to be seen but wasn’t because she was breathing normally, o2 levels fine, not excessive temp etc. just felt like rubbish. SIL shift had finished before she was seen (as opposed to being monitored etc). I think that people have been totally spooked and not really sure what the danger signs are as opposed to simply feeling like rubbish.

 

[N860CR]

SIL has moved back to A&E after being in the vaccination clinic. Her job is to RAT everyone who enters. Including staff. She says so many positive peeps are arriving at about Day 3. They know they are positive but think they are dying but in reality just suffering the symptoms known by those who’ve caught flu. And not dying. One lass spent the whole day in a seat waiting to be seen but wasn’t because she was breathing normally, o2 levels fine, not excessive temp etc. just felt like rubbish. SIL shift had finished before she was seen (as opposed to being monitored etc). I think that people have been totally spooked and not really sure what the danger signs are as opposed to simply feeling like rubbish.

Interestingly, in those I’ve crossed the ones who get “really sick” tend to be those who were quite covid obsessed/hysterical. I suspect a lot of it is psychological.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I guess increasing the sphere of vaccination provides some opportunity to build herd immunity, flatten the curve, or break the cycle.

Not with Omicron. Too contagious.