General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[Oneworldplus2]

Why do you think @kangarooflyer88 is definitely going to get COVID-19 (or a variant)? I can see no basis for your assumption or comment? I have never had Covid (absolutely not, for sure)

Common sense
Unless you wear a N95 mask for the rest of your life, you'll catch Covid sooner or later.
As Covid mutates, it has so far become more infectious and less virulent, hence the comparison to influenza.

Port Power, unless you do a Covid antibody test, you'll never know if you have had covid or not. And even then there is a testing window because your antibodies die off over time. Or you might be in the 20% bracket of people who are asymptomatic while infected. I think at this stage, Covid is over and it's just alarmist to be talking about 4th or 5th jabs.

The guy who sits next to me at work (60 year old), had covid back in March - sore throat for half a day, thats it.
Meanwhile the younger people at work got knocked around a bit more.
Everyone reacts differently.

CDC Covid and Flu comparisons
Similarities and Differences between Flu and COVID-19


While COVID-19 is currently in two of Australia's states and the ACT, the reality is eventually it will get everywhere.
And eventually, the theory goes, COVID-19 will infect everyone.
Are we all just going to get COVID eventually? - ABC


The highly contagious Omicros variant will 'find just about everybody', Fauci says, but vaccinated people will still fare better
The highly contagious Omicron variant will 'find just about everybody,' Fauci says, but vaccinated people will still fare better | CNN


The Omicron variant is spreading rapidly.
More than 1.4 million new COVID-19 cases were reported in the United States on Jan. 10.
In addition, there are predictions that 50 percent of people in Europe will contract COVID-19 in the next 2 months.
This has left experts are wondering if everyone is going to get COVID-19 at some point.
Will Everyone Eventually Get the Omicron Variant?​

 

[JohnK]

Yes John. Facts.

What do you mean by “take this virus seriously”? What would you like done to “take it seriously”?

You're still asking this question?

- mandatory vaccinations
- social distancing on public transport, shopping centres etc
- wear masks where you cannot social distance
- do not go out anywhere if you have covid or temperature
- acknowledge that not everyone is going to breeze through covid infection without realising they had covid

You see these as draconian measures. I see these as part of managing our way out of this mess.

 

[mrsterryn]

As a firm believer in all the preventive measures that were handed down I also believe that people need to accept and live with Covid along with severe flu strains etc.
My husband has serious health issues as well as when he gets a respiratory infection it is a major issue him.
We have done the required vaccinations and booster.
I don't believe that the measures that we had are sustainable going forward. Covid and probable more such things will be with us.

 

[Pushka]

You're still asking this question?

- mandatory vaccinations
- social distancing on public transport, shopping centres etc
- wear masks where you cannot social distance
- do not go out anywhere if you have covid or temperature
- acknowledge that not everyone is going to breeze through covid infection without realising they had covid

You see these as draconian measures. I see these as part of managing our way out of this mess.

Forcing people to have a vaccination is draconian.

No one has stated anywhere that everyone will breeze through covid without realising it, but some definitely will.

Masks should now be a choice. Anywhere.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

John, covid is so infectious that you can't stop it. Look at China. Locking down cities and forced wearing of masks hasn't stopped it.

 

[straitman]

You see these as draconian measures. I see these as part of managing our way out of this mess.

… and I see the way forward is using that old idea called commonsense. The one that’s not so common any more.
ie somewhere in the middle between locking the world down (that didn’t work) and opening everything up completely.
There currently is so much inequity in the rules that it’s laughable. eg I am currently on a Vline train where it’s compulsory to wear a mask, though they do not enforce it, whereas I can fly almost anywhere without one.
The list goes on and on and on….

 

[JohnK]

Forcing people to have a vaccination is draconian.

No one has stated anywhere that everyone will breeze through covid without realising it, but some definitely will.

Masks should now be a choice. Anywhere.

You'd say the same for smallpox or if there was an Ebola pandemic. What about Marburg?

Ok so covid is not as serious but letting it run rampant through the community is not the right answer. And neither is locking away individuals who are at high risk.

I have zero trust that the majority will do the right thing. I've seen way too many examples of the exact opposite.

Why did I bother vaccinating my daughter and ensuring her vaccines are up to date when she will mix with kids whose parents don't believe in vaccinations?

It makes no sense to allow individuals a choice when that choice has an effect on others.

 

[Pushka]

You'd say the same for smallpox or if there was an Ebola pandemic. What about Marburg?

Ok so covid is not as serious but letting it run rampant through the community is not the right answer. And neither is locking away individuals who are at high risk.

I have zero trust that the majority will do the right thing. I've seen way too many examples of the exact opposite.

Why did I bother vaccinating my daughter and ensuring her vaccines are up to date when she will mix with kids whose parents don't believe in vaccinations?

It makes no sense to allow individuals a choice when that choice has an effect on others.

How about you vaccinated your daughter to keep her safe?

In all honesty JohnK, regardless of the reasons you travelled to Thailand, you were given that choice. If you were that concerned about covid then that travel would be considered by the 'covid-wary' as being very risky. So you were given a choice that may very well have had impact on others. Yet you want to enforce vaccinations on others and have mask mandates.

 

[sjk]

From the Australian War Memorial:

 

[N860CR]

You're still asking this question?

- mandatory vaccinations
- social distancing on public transport, shopping centres etc
- wear masks where you cannot social distance
- do not go out anywhere if you have covid or temperature
- acknowledge that not everyone is going to breeze through covid infection without realising they had covid

You see these as draconian measures. I see these as part of managing our way out of this mess.

Yes I’m still asking because you’ve still not given a workable answer.

- Mandatory vaccinations (that don’t prevent transmission) for a virus that’s this mild is beyond an overstretch.

- Tried for 2 years. Not effective, not manageable

- Again, tried at length and not effective

- That’s what we’ve done for eternity when unwell. Some won’t. That can’t be controlled.

- Certainly not everyone is going to “breeze through”, but one could say the same for a cold, gastro, influenza or any array of viruses. That’s an issue for the individual and their doctor/health care provider.

Any measures on peoples ability to freely live their lives are draconian. People tolerated horrifically draconian measures for years generally without a huge argument. To ask the same of them when they are 1) fully vaccinated and 2) fully recovered (as the majority of the population is) purely to placate a very small minority is the definition of selfish.

Post automatically merged: Sep 19, 2022

Yet you want to enforce vaccinations on others and have mask mandates.

That’s often been the mantra of those who are unable to see through some of the covid madness. It’s all wonderful until it impacts them, then they want concessions

 

[drron]

You'd say the same for smallpox or if there was an Ebola pandemic. What about Marburg?

Ok so covid is not as serious but letting it run rampant through the community is not the right answer. And neither is locking away individuals who are at high risk.

I have zero trust that the majority will do the right thing. I've seen way too many examples of the exact opposite.

Why did I bother vaccinating my daughter and ensuring her vaccines are up to date when she will mix with kids whose parents don't believe in vaccinations?

It makes no sense to allow individuals a choice when that choice has an effect on others.

Sorry John even Dr Fauci and the CDC have left you behind. Last month they changed their minds on prevention and said it is up to the individual to take whatever measures they were comfortable with.
This month the WHO has said that although the pandemic isn’t over the end is in sight.
So John your wishes are not going to happen. So like the rest of us you can do what you think is necessary but let the rest of us make our own decisions.

 

[JohnK]

How about you vaccinated your daughter to keep her safe?

In all honesty JohnK, regardless of the reasons you travelled to Thailand, you were given that choice. If you were that concerned about covid then that travel would be considered by the 'covid-wary' as being very risky. So you were given a choice that may very well have had impact on others. Yet you want to enforce vaccinations on others and have mask mandates.

But she is not safe even fully vaccinated. She can still get measles, mumps, chickenpox etc and pass it on. Sure it may be milder versions but it's possible.

I struggle to understand the point of mass vaccination programs for kids and then allowing some kids to remain unvaccinated.

Your second point confuses me. What choice? I've had 4 covid vaccines and will get number 5 when it becomes available. The people in Thailand are taking the virus a lot more seriously than those back home. Still a high percentage of locals wearing masks. I feel safer in Thailand than I do in Brisbane.

Management want me to come back to the office as part of the 60%-40% rotation. I'm terrified. Boss has asked me to get letter from GP.

 

[straitman]

I'm terrified.

I really don't understand John. What are you terrified of?

Everything we do in life is a form of risk management so we cannot be afraid of everything.

 

[Pushka]

But she is not safe even fully vaccinated. She can still get measles, mumps, chickenpox etc and pass it on. Sure it may be milder versions but it's possible.

I struggle to understand the point of mass vaccination programs for kids and then allowing some kids to remain unvaccinated.

Your second point confuses me. What choice? I've had 4 covid vaccines and will get number 5 when it becomes available. The people in Thailand are taking the virus a lot more seriously than those back home. Still a high percentage of locals wearing masks. I feel safer in Thailand than I do in Brisbane.

Management want me to come back to the office as part of the 60%-40% rotation. I'm terrified. Boss has asked me to get letter from GP.

There are many more things in life to be terrified of than illnesses where we have been highly vaccinated. I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate risks.

 

[JohnK]

There are many more things in life to be terrified of than illnesses where we have been highly vaccinated. I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate risks.

Really?

You've known me for quite some time. I nearly died of chicken pox. If you knew how much I've been suffering since that ordeal you wouldn't be judging me.

Should I be jumping up and down that someone not vaccinated gave me the gift of chicken pox?

Maybe I'm being totally irrational right?

@straitman I'm terrified that my workplace has had many cases of covid and infections and re-infections in the workplace. That is a huge hazard. It's a huge red flag. I need to keep my job but MUST continue to work from home. Can't seem to convince management.

Perhaps what I should do is go on 2 day office and 3 day work from home roster and just use up my 25+ days sick leave for each day I'm supposed to be in office. And when that runs out go to work in morning and leave sick after 1 hour of extreme stress of being in office.

Do you think management will get the hint that I do not want to be in office? Maybe not because they're not very clever.

 

[Pushka]

Really?

You've known me for quite some time. I nearly died of chicken pox. If you knew how much I've been suffering since that ordeal you wouldn't be judging me.

Should I be jumping up and down that someone not vaccinated gave me the gift of chicken pox?

Maybe I'm being totally irrational right?

@straitman I'm terrified that my workplace has had many cases of covid and infections and re-infections in the workplace. That is a huge hazard. It's a huge red flag. I need to keep my job but MUST continue to work from home. Can't seem to convince management.

Perhaps what I should do is go on 2 day office and 3 day work from home roster and just use up my 25+ days sick leave for each day I'm supposed to be in office. And when that runs out go to work in morning and leave sick after 1 hour of extreme stress of being in office.

Do you think management will get the hint that I do not want to be in office? Maybe not because they're not very clever.

But that is exactly my point. There was no vaccine for chicken pox until around 20 years ago. Actually, funded since 2009. You caught it in a community when vaccinations didn't exist for it. My kids didn't have it as part of their routine as they were born in 1985 and 1990 but I gave chicken pox to them in 1991. Clearly in your eyes I was a bad human because I didn't have the vaccine, except, it didn't even exist, Vaccines and immunisations prevent serious illness or sometimes even prevent infection. Yes their use must be encouraged. Which it is. But mandatory - I might want people to have them but not mandate it. I can totally understand your fear of Covid even 12 months ago. Use your own common sense. Don't expect others to do the same so act accordingly.

 

[OATEK]

I really don't understand John. What are you terrified of?

Everything we do in life is a form of risk management so we cannot be afraid of everything.

My next door neighbour is terrified of the carpet snake that lives in my roof and comes out to sunbake in full view from her house (we rarely see it). Fear is so often irrational.

Really?

You've known me for quite some time. I nearly died of chicken pox. If you knew how much I've been suffering since that ordeal you wouldn't be judging me.

Should I be jumping up and down that someone not vaccinated gave me the gift of chicken pox?

Maybe I'm being totally irrational right?

@straitman I'm terrified that my workplace has had many cases of covid and infections and re-infections in the workplace. That is a huge hazard. It's a huge red flag. I need to keep my job but MUST continue to work from home. Can't seem to convince management.

Perhaps what I should do is go on 2 day office and 3 day work from home roster and just use up my 25+ days sick leave for each day I'm supposed to be in office. And when that runs out go to work in morning and leave sick after 1 hour of extreme stress of being in office.

Do you think management will get the hint that I do not want to be in office? Maybe not because they're not very clever.

I went to the UK in March and was absolutely sure I would get Covid, but took a calculated risk in order to see my granddaughter turn 10 by having my two shots before travelling. And I caught it, with many of the underlying factors present that are meant to make it worse (eg hypertension, type 2 diabetes). I was unwell for a day, and a pain for the next 4 because I didn't want to remain in isolation as I wasn't feeling unwell (but I did). The UK rule at that stage was 5 days isolation. Everyone had to clear the entrance foyer so I could go out for daily walks (staying in a private home).

So then we decided to go to the UK again in August for their long school holidays, and had the 3rd and 4th shots before departing. There was some compulsory mask wearing here and there (on the plane ex-SYD, on the flights LCY-BER and the Berlin train system) but otherwise it was all voluntary. I went to crowded places such as Selhurst Park and Emirates stadium for Premier League games, and out and about in shopping centres, on London tube/buses etc. I did not get covid or if I did there were no symptoms. This is what living with covid looks like - take all the measures you think sensible yourself, and let others make their own risks assessments and choices.

 

[JohnK]

Sorry John even Dr Fauci and the CDC have left you behind. Last month they changed their minds on prevention and said it is up to the individual to take whatever measures they were comfortable with.

Dr Fauci? Sorry @drron but you've mentioned this "person" a few times now. Zero credibility. An expert on nothing except deception.

Everyone appears to be comfortable allowing individuals to handle a pandemic how they see fit. Excellent recipe for disaster.

 

[Pushka]

Everyone appears to be comfortable allowing individuals to handle a pandemic how they see fit. Excellent recipe for disaster.

Which is exactly what you are doing with your decision to travel overseas. As you have determined there is no risk in doing that.

 

[JohnK]

Which is exactly what you are doing with your decision to travel overseas. As you have determined there is no risk in doing that.

Oh @Pushka you are confused.

My overseas trip is not going to hurt anyone. I took a calculated risk.

Going to work, shopping, dancing, with Covid, or flu, or temperature, or any infectious disease, and no regard for others is a recipe for disaster.

Can you tell the difference?

By the way I'll be home Sunday morning. I'm not planning on going anywhere except for chat with GP if he wants to see me regarding leg infection and high blood pressure.

I will also go to Sydney to visit mum and dad but will wait 7-10 days before going.

I know, and 110% certain, who is doing the right thing. Right?