General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[drron]

Dr Fauci? Sorry @drron but you've mentioned this "person" a few times now. Zero credibility. An expert on nothing except deception.

Everyone appears to be comfortable allowing individuals to handle a pandemic how they see fit. Excellent recipe for disaster.

Exactly John. Fauci was out front in promoting Covid restrictions including mask mandates and even he has given up the fight.

 

[JohnK]

Exactly John. Fauci was out front in promoting Covid restrictions including mask mandates and even he has given up the fight.

Fauci is part of the problem. He is part of this mess.

Does Fauci have any credibility?

 

[drron]

Fauci is part of the problem. He is part of this mess.

Does Fauci have any credibility?

In my eyes he never has. But the fact that he has done such a U turn suggest that those with real power have decided it has to be this way now.

 

[Pushka]

Oh @Pushka you are confused.

My overseas trip is not going to hurt anyone. I took a calculated risk.

Going to work, shopping, dancing, with Covid, or flu, or temperature, or any infectious disease, and no regard for others is a recipe for disaster.

Can you tell the difference?

By the way I'll be home Sunday morning. I'm not planning on going anywhere except for chat with GP if he wants to see me regarding leg infection and high blood pressure.

I will also go to Sydney to visit mum and dad but will wait 7-10 days before going.

I know, and 110% certain, who is doing the right thing. Right?

And you are missing the point. You surmised you took a calculated risk. You gave yourself permission to do so. Yet you refuse to concede or grant others permission to take their own calculated risks such as the wearing of masks and vaccines. To be honest if I was as fearful of covid as you state here, going overseas is the last thing I would do. Further you suggest that people are knowingly mixing with covid. But unless you have tested daily how do you know you don't have covid and are travelling also.

 

[andye]

Oh @Pushka
Going to work, shopping, dancing, with Covid, or flu, or temperature, or any infectious disease, and no regard for others is a recipe for disaster...

No-one is suggesting that people do any of those things if they are symptomatic but you seem to be suggesting that we interfere with people doing those things when they are not

In a vaccinated nation, you are never going to stop people dancing. Those of us who are older and established in their lives might forget how much of a human drive it is for people to socialise, fall in love (or lust even) and express joy.

As for fear of covid, the vast majority of people dying of covid now are so already frail or sick that they wouldn't be in any position to travel overseas. The danger to people with moderate chronic disease or modest immunosuppression is much less than you might suppose, particularly with the availability of antiviral drugs.

If perceived danger remains high, there is always the option of wearing a well-fitting N95 (and goggles if you wish). I am perfectly happy getting very close to people I know have covid while wearing them

 

[JohnK]

In my eyes he never has. But the fact that he has done such a U turn suggest that those with real power have decided it has to be this way now.

Those with real power have got it wrong.

Three myths about COVID-19 — and the biggest challenge that lies ahead

With four decades of research on antibodies under my belt, I always felt like I had a pretty good handle on COVID-19. But when I caught the virus in May, my hubris quickly turned into humility, writes Professor Chris Goodnow.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drron]

Interesting article John. Not sure if it backs up your wishes though.
So when the severe side effects of Covid were looked at there was no difference in incidence between those that had had 2 or more vaccine doses and those with none.
The same result with the incidence of infection.
And his third thought was that he doubted that bi valent vaccines would change any thing.

Seems to me it puts an end to your wish of forcing everyone to be vaccinated.

 

[JohnK]

Seems to me it puts an end to your wish of forcing everyone to be vaccinated.

That's a fairly balanced article with quite a few truths. Sure vaccination may not be the lifeline we wanted but neither is letting the virus run rampant without any precautions.

It also highlights there are going to be issues with people getting Covid and the more you get infected the more issues may present. There is so much we don't know.

It's too early to be complacent and pat ourselves on the back.

By the way I'm not changing my mind on vaccinations. When you put these programs in place there has to be full participation otherwise it's a waste of time.

 

[drron]

Sorry John I don’t buy your rosy assessment of that article. I don’t want people taking a risk with the vaccines even if serious risks are rare if vaccination is not having a significant effect reducing the risk of infection and the risk of severe side effects of infection.

 

[JohnK]

Sorry John I don’t buy your rosy assessment of that article. I don’t want people taking a risk with the vaccines even if serious risks are rare if vaccination is not having a significant effect reducing the risk of infection and the risk of severe side effects of infection.

You can't have it both ways @drron.

If we don't have an effective vaccination program then we should not be removing restrictions and preventative measures that have been in place.

Our #1 goal has to be to reduce the risk of infection and reduce the severity of infections otherwise our hospital system will not be able to cope.

Perhaps we should refuse hospital treatment for those with covid that are unvaccinated?

 

[drron]

John your are the one having a both ways. How can you deny admission to the unvaccinated when the article you quoted says the unvaccinated are no more likely than those who have had 2 or more shots to get Covid or severe long term effects from it?

And if you have proof that wearing a mask prevents the wearer getting Covid then go for it. The only thing that has some proof is wearing an N95 mask and good luck getting everyone doing that.

 

[N860CR]

And if you have proof that wearing a mask prevents the wearer getting Covid then go for it. The only thing that has some proof is wearing an N95 mask and good luck getting everyone doing that.

The somewhat perplexing argument that basically all the covid hanger-oners use is “we can’t live with covid! Wear a mask!”. When digging further, they’ve got no other answer than “wear a mask waaa waaa waaa”.

This is despite us knowing that mask wearing as a public health measure is not an effective method of virus control. Yet that’s all they’ve got…..

The question really has to be; what do these people actually want?

 

[JohnK]

John your are the one having a both ways. How can you deny admission to the unvaccinated when the article you quoted says the unvaccinated are no more likely than those who have had 2 or more shots to get Covid or severe long term effects from it?

And if you have proof that wearing a mask prevents the wearer getting Covid then go for it. The only thing that has some proof is wearing an N95 mask and good luck getting everyone doing that.

No @drron.

Either stop vaccinations.

Or continue with restrictions until a proper vaccine has been developed.

That's not having it both ways. That's being sensible.

Telling people they do not need test. They do not need to isolate. They do not need to take necessary precautions is about the dumbest advice I have heard in close to 3 years since covid.

I do remember someone on AFF very early saying they should be allowed to travel anywhere in the world and all vulnerable people should be wearing hazmat suits or isolation bubbles. Yep excellent solution.

Who said Sparta is dead? Throw the weak over the cliff or leave them in the wilderness to fend for themselves. After all we can't have any disruptions to our precious lives that will be forgotten very quickly.

 

[drron]

Sorry john your proposals will not be instituted by except maybe China.
The boat has sailed and no matter how long you shout and wave your arms it is not turning back.

 

[N860CR]

Sorry john your proposals will not be instituted by except maybe China.
The boat has sailed and no matter how long you shout and wave your arms it is not turning back.

And nor should it. We’ve now had months of close to zero restrictions and the virus has become less and less of an issue. I caught a train in Melbourne yesterday and saw maybe 1 or 2 people wearing masks. The general populous has made their decision and clearly it’s the right one as things are significantly improving (rather than getting worse, as one should practically assume given supposedly preventative measures aren’t being taken).

Does raise the question, why on earth did we persist with public health initiatives that were clearly flawed?

 

[N860CR]

Who said Sparta is dead? Throw the weak over the cliff or leave them in the wilderness to fend for themselves. After all we can't have any disruptions to our precious lives that will be forgotten very quickly.

We’ve had nearly three years of restrictions. People not being allowed out to their house. Not being able to travel interstate, leave the LGAs, see friends and family, losing homes, losing businesses, losing livelihoods, having vaccinations forced upon them, shall I continue? I agree that we have forgotten all too quickly, these sorts of extreme violations of peoples rights shouldn’t be.

The fact that you want them to continue because you’re “terrified” about going into the the office is on you, not anybody else. Selfishness to the extreme.

 

[Pushka]

The fact that you want them to continue because you’re “terrified” about going into the the office is on you, not anybody else. Selfishness to the extreme.

Peoples assessment of risk is just - bizarre.

 

[N860CR]

Peoples assessment of risk is just - bizarre.

I guess people are free to assess their own risk (and hysteria). It’s when they start pushing it onto others (and attacking those who don’t support it) that presents an issue. Sadly, we’ve seen a lot of that over the last two and a half years. It’s been most pronounced over the last six months where there’s been absolutely zero justification for it.

 

[JohnK]

Sorry john your proposals will not be instituted by except maybe China.
The boat has sailed and no matter how long you shout and wave your arms it is not turning back.

Just my opinion @drron. Not shouting. Not waving my arms around.

Just because majority think they have it right does not make it right. Plenty of examples in history and no need to bring them into the discussion.

I accept common sense (in Australia at least) has gone out the window.

Now to focus on getting permanent work from home rubber stamped and plan next trip to see my house in March/April next year.

 

[N860CR]

Just my opinion @drron. Not shouting. Not waving my arms around.

Just because majority think they have it right does not make it right. Plenty of examples in history and no need to bring them into the discussion.

I accept common sense (in Australia at least) has gone out the window.

Now to focus on getting permanent work from home rubber stamped and plan next trip to see my house in March/April next year.

If your definition of “common sense” is people standing on dots in Coles and wearing totally not fit for purpose coverings on their face, then I suspect something else has gone out the window