General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[Pushka]

Dementia deaths during the COVID-19 pandemic in Australia, Summary

The age-standardised death rate for Australians with dementia recorded on their death certificates fell during the first 10 months of 2020, probably as a result of measures designed to prevent...

www.aihw.gov.au

Dementia deaths were lower in 2020 than previous years, with the suggestion that measures to control covid were directly linked to the lower death rate from dementia.

These results suggest that the measures in place to control the virus indirectly reduced dementia death rates in Australia during the first 10 months of 2020, and contrasts with the experience of other developed countries like the United Kingdom where deaths among people with dementia (even when not due to COVID-19) rose during the pandemic (Alzheimer’s UK 2020).​

​

My reference to the time period for restrictions ending December 2021 reflects when vaccines became widely available and enabling things such as international travel to be planned.

And as a comparison. The GP at the Doctors clinic the other day said she was saddened by the increase in Breast cancer patients she was seeing because women had delayed their mammograms during covid or not had lumps checked out in that time and their cancers had advanced. Just one health issue that people had let go. And as @drron said earlier, the impact of delays for all manner of illnesses and diseases is about to play out.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Well folks, went in on Friday afternoon to get my 5th dose and told the nurse to fill 'er up! Ended up getting Novavax in the end instead of bivalent Moderna. I know a lot of folks will think I'm crazy either for going for the 5th dose or favouring Novavax over the bivalent booster. For the former, I can't afford to get COVID. This assumption that we'll all get it sometime is waving a white flag to the virus. I'm not going down without a fight and I sure as hell am not gonna stop travelling or do what I do due to some kind of virus. I've been on 45 flights thus far since October last year and have avoided this travelling not only within Australia but to North America to Europe, etc. Perhaps I have been extraordinarily lucky. But I reckon N95 masking and vaccines played a large role. For those wondering why I chose Novavax from the vaccine buffet this time a couple of reasons. First, I received AstraZeneca (2 doses), Pfizer (booster 1), Moderna (booster 2) so getting Novavax will mean I round out my protection and vaccine technology in use. Second, it is unclear how effective the current bivalent booster is to these new variants. Clearly BA.5 is not a concern anymore, new variants are outcompeting it and it will be ancient history. What we do know from some studies so far is Novavax is incredibly good at targeting new unseen variants. Third, I had enough of mRNA technology with the Pfizer and Moderna boosters. Yes, I'm sure it's safe, but I really don't want to put all of my eggs in this basket just in case. As for the vaccine itself, my arm was sore for about 30 minutes and that was about it. I didn't have any headache or other symptoms I experienced with more prior boosters. I'll take that as a win.

Unbelievable

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571186794644873217

Completely agree. Unbelievable that folks keep saying you'll get myocarditis or periocarditis from the vaccine. What a crock of horseshit. Not a single study has found that to be the case except in extremely rare circumstances. Like one in a million type events. When making health decisions you need to weigh the risk against the benefits. Just because something has a small risk doesn't mean you should avoid it. Case in point, I have to go in for a colonoscopy every couple of years. The risk of complications is about 5% each time depending on the surgeon. This by the way is orders of magnitude more risky than your Pfizer booster, by the way. Well what's the benefit? For someone like me with Crohn's I have a higher likelihood of colon cancer, and we know when you get colon cancer it kills if you don't catch it fast. We also know that certain bowel inflammations may be lurking with you even noticing and it's much better to catch them before it's too late and you're stuck in the ICU for a couple of weeks or worse, having to carry one of those poop bags around.

Sorry John even Dr Fauci and the CDC have left you behind. Last month they changed their minds on prevention and said it is up to the individual to take whatever measures they were comfortable with.
This month the WHO has said that although the pandemic isn’t over the end is in sight.
So John your wishes are not going to happen. So like the rest of us you can do what you think is necessary but let the rest of us make our own decisions.

Oh yes, Dr. Fauci, the zenith of public health advice. What can we learn from Dr. Fauci or Brandon about how to avoid COVID? They haven't caught it yet, maybe there's something to learn there!

-RooFlyer88

 

[drron]

Actually Dr. fauci has had covid in June this year.

 

[JohnK]

Peoples assessment of risk is just - bizarre.

I'm really struggling to understand your reasoning.

I chose to go to Thailand where covid numbers have dropped quite a lot, they still wear masks and take appropriate measures to try stop infection. They are taking covid seriously.

My biggest concern in my travels is sitting next to an Australian who doesn't wear a mask and doesn't care about the consequences of having covid or passing it on to someone.

I've assessed that it would be extremely high risk to my health and totally inappropriate for me to return to Brisbane office for the office/wfh rotation due to the careless attitude shown by uninformed Australians who think they know how to best manage a pandemic.

By the way quite a high number of people wearing masks on SQ SIN-BNE flight last night. Not the majority but still quite a few. Following AFF you'd think wearing masks was a huge issue but clearly that is not case.

Thank goodness some still have common sense.

 

[drron]

Though on my SIN BNE day time flight on friday I saw no one with a mask. The only people I saw at the gate wearing masks were the staff and one older asian couple.

 

[ketsuzei]

uninformed Australians who think they know how to best manage a pandemic.

LOL.

 

[Pushka]

I'm really struggling to understand your reasoning.

Well at least we agree on something at last.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Though on my SIN BNE day time flight on friday I saw no one with a mask. The only people I saw at the gate wearing masks were the staff and one older asian couple.

Similar in melbourne… the staff at the pub were wearing masks, and the check out staff at woollies also, plus many of the other shops I was in.

They are obviously trying to protect themselves.

I try to be accommodating and wear a mask too when interacting with them… don’t want to pass it on if i have it.

 

[drron]

Similar in melbourne… the staff at the pub were wearing masks, and the check out staff at woollies also, plus many of the other shops I was in.

They are obviously trying to protect themselves.

I try to be accommodating and wear a mask too when interacting with them… don’t want to pass it on if i have it.

But the FAs on the flight weren't wearing masks, finally could see them smile.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But the FAs on the flight weren't wearing masks, finally could see them smile.

HEPA filters as standard, and frequent air change/circulation.

You can tell a smile through the eyes, just as much as the mouth Masks made no difference there.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Did (BNE - DXB - BUD) a few days ago.

Masks were mandatory on flight as well as in Dubai.

BNE - DXB flight, 80% - 90% wore masks. Masks off for hours at a time during meal service.
At Dubai, 70%. No enforcement
Flight from DXB to BUD, maybe 40%, including FA's. FA's weren't wearing masks
In Budapest itself, maybe 1%, if that

It should be purely optional by this stage of the game.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

In other news I see that the Albo government has taken a note from ScoMo pandemic playbook:

Head of COVID vaccine review 'surprised' government yet to order shots for 2024

Warning "this virus isn't going away", the former health department boss who led a review of the nation's COVID-19 vaccine arrangements says she is surprised the federal government is yet to order vaccines for 2024.

www.abc.net.au

Remember folks, vaccination is not a race!

Actually Dr. fauci has had covid in June this year.

I was being facetious. A key part of being a role model is to be somebody others look up to. I think more people would take Fauci seriously if the statements he made were based on the science, and that he demonstrated that by not catching the dreaded five letter virus. Many of us have dodged COVID and I don't think it's down to pure chance either!

Similar in melbourne… the staff at the pub were wearing masks, and the check out staff at woollies also, plus many of the other shops I was in.

They are obviously trying to protect themselves.

I try to be accommodating and wear a mask too when interacting with them… don’t want to pass it on if i have it.

The problem is people have been sold a false bill of goods on masks. They've been told that if we all wear masks we'll be protected. Then they are surprised when they catch COVID anyway! Well those floppy blue masks aren't gonna do much to prevent you from inhaling COVID. I think if there was a push towards mandatory N95 wearing we would quickly see those cases drop quite nicely and once people see COVID ain't affecting their lives anymore, maybe we'll just accept it as a cost of doing business much like having to wear a seatbelt when driving.

-RooFlyer88

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I was being facetious. A key part of being a role model is to be somebody others look up to. I think more people would take Fauci seriously if the statements he made were based on the science, and that he demonstrated that by not catching the dreaded five letter virus. Many of us have dodged COVID and I don't think it's down to pure chance either!

The problem is people have been sold a false bill of goods on masks. They've been told that if we all wear masks we'll be protected. Then they are surprised when they catch COVID anyway! Well those floppy blue masks aren't gonna do much to prevent you from inhaling COVID. I think if there was a push towards mandatory N95 wearing we would quickly see those cases drop quite nicely and once people see COVID ain't affecting their lives anymore, maybe we'll just accept it as a cost of doing business much like having to wear a seatbelt when driving.

-RooFlyer88

masks are only one measure.

and most effective if worn by a person infected.

If someone is infectious but doesn’t believe in masks, the virus is probably going to spread faster.

research has also found that if people are willing to take responsibility to wear a mask, they are possibly more likely to follow other protocols such as social distancing. For example, those opposed to wearing masks use the example that they are useless if you can sit and eat a meal, mask free for three or four hours on a plane. Or you can avoid wearing a mask by ‘nursing a beer’ for two hours in an airline lounge. Of course you could replace the mask between bites of food or sips of your drink.

 

[drron]

Of course putting a mask on and off between mouthfuls of food or sips of beer is a sure way of making it ineffective. Also wearing a mask on a plane for 12 hours means that for the majority of the time the mask is ineffective.

And N95 masks are not some magic panacea. The studies showing effectiveness are with fit tested masks. If out in the public I would be surprised if more than 10% were fit tested. I know from my own experience there was only 1 type of N95 that fitted my face properly. The others had air leaks. Of course the effective one was about the most uncomfortable to wear.

And as to people being willing to wear masks many people remember the heavy handed enforcement of mask wearing/. There is a video circulating again on twitter of a young Melbourne woman being choked by a policeman and when he got her face down on the ground a knee was forcibly applied to her back. Her crime -not wearing a mask. Is that the kind of society you want? I certainly don't want it. But those far too numerous incidents of brutality mean there is going to be a fair number of people who will not again wear a mask.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Of course putting a mask on and off between mouthfuls of food or sips of beer is a sure way of making it ineffective. Also wearing a mask on a plane for 12 hours means that for the majority of the time the mask is ineffective.

And N95 masks are not some magic panacea. The studies showing effectiveness are with fit tested masks. If out in the public I would be surprised if more than 10% were fit tested. I know from my own experience there was only 1 type of N95 that fitted my face properly. The others had air leaks. Of course the effective one was about the most uncomfortable to wear.

And as to people being willing to wear masks many people remember the heavy handed enforcement of mask wearing/. There is a video circulating again on twitter of a young Melbourne woman being choked by a policeman and when he got her face down on the ground a knee was forcibly applied to her back. Her crime -not wearing a mask. Is that the kind of society you want? I certainly don't want it. But those far too numerous incidents of brutality mean there is going to be a fair number of people who will not again wear a mask.

I’m pretty sure the study i posted - 350000 subject- were for the regular surgical masks? This was in an everyday setting, villages and such. That study showed a 10-35% reduction in transmission, partly attributed to adherence to other protocols such as distancing.

I think that is highlighted by those ‘nursing a beer’ in an airline lounge. If people really don’t want to wear a mask they’ll come up with all sorts of excuses not to wear one. And then claim people are still passing on covid, so masks aren’t effective.

Was the video really about not wearing a mask? Or was the person at an illegal protest against all restriction?

In melbourne CBD last weekend there were three separate rallies on one day protesting about this and that. One of them was anti masks. And they’re not even a thing anymore!

 

[kangarooflyer88]

masks are only one measure.

and most effective if worn by a person infected.

I don't know. N95 one-way masking seems to work having travelled now to a number of countries where masking is optional at best.

research has also found that if people are willing to take responsibility to wear a mask, they are possibly more likely to follow other protocols such as social distancing. For example, those opposed to wearing masks use the example that they are useless if you can sit and eat a meal, mask free for three or four hours on a plane. Or you can avoid wearing a mask by ‘nursing a beer’ for two hours in an airline lounge. Of course you could replace the mask between bites of food or sips of your drink.

The science is still out on whether masking is needed in an indoor environment where you are several metres away from anyone, particularly if the mask is down for a couple of minutes to grab a bite to eat and you've already received 5 doses of COVID vaccine all different brands and technologies. There's still much we don't know about how to avoid COVID!

-RooFlyer88

 

[drron]

I’m pretty sure the study i posted - 350000 subject- were for the regular surgical masks? This was in an everyday setting, villages and such. That study showed a 10-35% reduction in transmission, partly attributed to adherence to other protocols such as distancing.

I think that is highlighted by those ‘nursing a beer’ in an airline lounge. If people really don’t want to wear a mask they’ll come up with all sorts of excuses not to wear one. And then claim people are still passing on covid, so masks aren’t effective.

Was the video really about not wearing a mask? Or was the person at an illegal protest against all restriction?

In melbourne CBD last weekend there were three separate rallies on one day protesting about this and that. One of them was anti masks. And they’re not even a thing anymore!

The study you posted was not an ideal study with wide confidence intervals despite the large number of subjects. One simple problem that can't be answered in that study did the mask weares and non mask wearing subjects subject to the same incidence of exposure to covid. You can't use that study and say it applies to everyone.
One of the best studies was the early Danish one with people masked or unmasked whilst living in a house with a known case of Covid. At best it resulted in a 1-2% reduction of transmission. At worst a 3-4% increase in transmission for the mask wearers. That means they made no difference.

And what if it was at an anti mask protest. 3 policemen were present and the woman was defenceless. I also remember well an old gentleman sitting by himself in a park and police pulled him off the seat and handcuffed him. I think that one was in Sydney

Sorry the chance of Australians in significant numbers to willing wear a mask is Nunn and Buckleys.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Pre vaccination. Outbreaks in nursing homes. People out at an illegal gathering during lockdown when the general public had few if any defences against the spread and impacts of covid. I'm not sure the victim is the one that you've identified.

 

[drron]

Pre vaccination. Outbreaks in nursing homes. People out at an illegal gathering during lockdown. Defenceless? not so sure.

Oh you are really clutching at straws. In the video there is only the woman and the policeman and a policewoman in the shot. She was walking alone. Defenceless -yes definitely.
And here is the video.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1296380893087461377

And you still have no chance of getting your way on masks.
any other discussion isn't going to change anyone's mind now.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And you still have no chance of getting your way on masks.
any other discussion isn't going to change anyone's mind now.

This is not about anybody 'getting their own way'.

It's about providing accurate information.

If people want to reduce their chances of spreading covid to others a mask may be useful, particularly when combined with other covid protocols.