General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[dajop]

But does it matter? There are other ways US will provide aid.

True and above all else their immediate need, where hundreds of people are still dying each day, and the vulnerable aren't particularly well protected, is much greater.

 

[Must...Fly!]

And of course that selfish nation the USA has pledged $US4 billion to Covax.

They're the only reason we have multiple vaccines anyway and such high production rates.

It's easy to join the pile on I guess.

 

[Lynda2475]

WHO warns of 'third and fourth surges' as restrictions loosen amid vaccine rollout

As more and more countries gain access to COVID-19 vaccines, the World Health Organisation says it's alarmed at the rapid loosening of restrictions taking place around the world.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Pushka]

WHO warns of 'third and fourth surges' as restrictions loosen amid vaccine rollout

As more and more countries gain access to COVID-19 vaccines, the World Health Organisation says it's alarmed at the rapid loosening of restrictions taking place around the world.

www.abc.net.au

This is the one thing that disturbs me given I already have a blood clotting illness.

 

[Seat0B]

My employer is doing that also, get vaccinated you get an extra day off to take at a time of your choosing. Applied globally (except a couple of countries due to local laws). I think it has been quite favorably received, although less exciting if you're struggling to find a decent use for annual leave due to travel restrictions anyway (and you can't accrue annual leave either, such that you can only carry forward a limited amount each year).

yes the inability to accrue and carry forward annual leave is an issue for my son in UAE, along with his "paid trip home each year" as part of his work package - he had to give that up for 2020, and he does not get to take it as 2 trips in 2021 or whenever it is that our borders finally open enough to permit him to visit the family. If the premier of Victoria had his way, that would be never as visiting family is apparently not a compassionate enough need for an ex-pat citizen to come home, as widely reported in the press.

 

[Lynda2475]

According to ABC NZ hwve decided to go 100% Pfizer for all New Zealanders.

I wonder if this means Aussies who get AZ may not be granted vaccine passport for NZ and may still need to HQ vs those who get Pfizer here?

 

[dajop]

According to ABC NZ hwve decided to go 100% Pfizer for all New Zealanders.

I wonder if this means Aussies who get AZ may not be granted vaccine passport for NZ and may still need to HQ vs those who get Pfizer here?

B does not necessarily follow A. Simplicity, as well as efficacy, seems to be playing a role (and wonder if cost is as well). NZ had earlier made smaller orders of other vaccines, but are looking at how these might be used in the Pacific instead.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[MEL_Traveller]

According to ABC NZ hwve decided to go 100% Pfizer for all New Zealanders.

I wonder if this means Aussies who get AZ may not be granted vaccine passport for NZ and may still need to HQ vs those who get Pfizer here?

I wouldn't think that's likely. People from all over the world will have different vaccines. I can't see NZ excluding tourists or family who happen to have another equally good vaccine?

 

[Pushka]

B does not necessarily follow A. Simplicity, as well as efficacy, seems to be playing a role (and wonder if cost is as well). NZ had earlier made smaller orders of other vaccines, but are looking at how these might be used in the Pacific instead.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

I understood their previous orders wouldn't have covered everyone.

 

[Lynda2475]

People from all over the world will have different vaccines. I can't see NZ excluding tourists or family who happen to have another equally good vaccine?

Will likely come down to whether they deem AZ equally good. I imagine countries will only recognise vaccines as fit for purpose if their CDC/TGA equivalent body deem it so.

I personally doubt Australia will accept just any vaccine as good enough to avoid Quarantine especially not the Russian and Chinese ones which have not not yet been properly peer reviewed. An emmergency approval in a poorer country, wont trump a TGA review.

 

[OZDUCK]

Will likely come down to whether they deem AZ equally good. I imagine countries will only recognise vaccines as fit for purpose if their CDC/TGA equivalent body deem it so.

I personally doubt Australia will accept just any vaccine as good enough to avoid Quarantine especially not the Russian and Chinese ones which have not not yet been properly peer reviewed. An emmergency approval in a poorer country, wont trump a TGA review.

The Russian "Sputnik" vaccine is now accepted internationally as being safe and effective.

Russia's Sputnik V vaccine has 92% efficacy in trial

Trials with 20,000 volunteers show the vaccine gives a high level of protection against Covid-19.

www.bbc.com

expert reaction to study looking at preliminary efficacy and safety results from interim analysis of Russian COVID-19 phase 3 vaccine (Sputnik) trial | Science Media Centre

 

[Lynda2475]

Dont see anything in that article that shows that any country with a health system of a similar standard to Australia have authorised Sputnik for use (emmergency or otherwise). The governments of the countries using Sputnik arent exactly known for being transparent with their populations - propagandai s rife in Russia and Venezuela. Im not saying Sputnik doesnt work, but I will remain wary until its authorised for safe use somewhere like UK or Canada or by our own TGA.

 

[OZDUCK]

Dont see anything in that article that shows that any country with a health system of a simialr standard to Australia have authorised Sputnik for use (emmergency or otherwise). The governments of the countries using Sputnik arent exactly known for being transparent with their populations - propagandais rife. Im not saying Sputnik doesnt work, but I will remain wary until its authorised for safe use somewhere like UK or Canada or by our own TGA.

The second article I linked does point out concerns with the ethics of some of the approaches used to test Sputnik in the early stages but most are now satisfied with its usefulness. I don't think that there is much likelihood of it being used in the UK etc. There are already a number of vaccine options available from 'western' companies, and more coming, that have a full understanding of the intricacies of obtaining approval by the likes of the TGA. I don't see anyone bothering to go through that process with a company that is completely unused to those sort of requirements. This should not be seen as an impediment to recognition of it as a viable vaccine when used in other countries. The 'scientific approach' must be followed and it now appears that this has been done - to still exclude it would seem to require turning a blind eye to reality.

 

[Flashback]

The second article I linked does point out concerns with the ethics of some of the approaches used to test Sputnik in the early stages but most are now satisfied with its usefulness. I don't think that there is much likelihood of it being used in the UK etc. There are already a number of vaccine options available from 'western' companies, and more coming, that have a full understanding of the intricacies of obtaining approval by the likes of the TGA. I don't see anyone bothering to go through that process with a company that is completely unused to those sort of requirements. This should not be seen as an impediment to recognition of it as a viable vaccine when used in other countries. The 'scientific approach' must be followed and it now appears that this has been done - to still exclude it would seem to require turning a blind eye to reality.

Agree, lots of countries Africa are rolling out either the Chinese or Russian option. It's all about just getting it out there.

 

[drron]

According to ABC NZ hwve decided to go 100% Pfizer for all New Zealanders.

I wonder if this means Aussies who get AZ may not be granted vaccine passport for NZ and may still need to HQ vs those who get Pfizer here?

Why?
the evidence from the UK is that the AZ vaccine is not inferior to the Pfizer vaccine.
And it is suggested above that the AZ vaccine might be being sent to the Pacific Islands that NZ is close to.The Pfizer vaccine is useless there.
Just as here in QLD there is significant disease in PNG and the problem is it may spread via the Torres Strait Islands so the population there is being vaccinated urgently with the AZ vaccine as there the Pfizer vaccine would be as useless as things on a bull.

 

[Lynda2475]

Why?
the evidence from the UK is that the AZ vaccine is not inferior to the Pfizer vaccine.

Well NZ obviously feel Pfizer is superior, as they have decided to order enough for everyone and wait for that delivery, despite having other options available.

It cant be cost, because AZ is less expensive than Pfizer and has lower transport and storage costs too. There must have been some advice to come to the decision to spend more and wait longer for Pfizer over others. Otherwise why wouldnt NZ buy AZ and get it sooner?



From ABC:

New Zealand will buy additional COVID-19 vaccines, developed by Pfizer Inc and Germany's BioNTech, which will be enough to vaccinate the whole country, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says.

The government has signed an agreement to buy an extra 8.5 million doses, enough to vaccinate over 4 million people, Ardern said, adding the vaccines were expected to reach the country in the second half of the year.

"This brings our total Pfizer order to 10 million doses or enough for 5 million people to get the two shots needed to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19," Ardern said in a statement.

The government's original agreement with Pfizer was for 1.5 million doses, enough to vaccinate 750,000 people.

Ardern said the decision to make Pfizer the country's primary vaccine provider was taken after it was shown to be about 95% effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

New Zealand started its national rollout of the Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine last month and expects to inoculate its entire population by the end of the year.

 

[ethernet]

There is growing thought that perhaps a booster for Pfizer or AZ is not needed, set against 'this is not what approval was based on'. And that a booster for variants down the track would be a better outcome. As usual there are qualifications, and no explanation for statistic divergence for 3rd world trials, Vs. excellent results coming out of UK and Scotland. It would be nice to see numbers for 'boosters' and impact on the spacing. Australia may also be able to skip overregulation for booster shots, if 'no complications' from the first, for say under 65's.

 

[Flashback]

There is growing thought that perhaps a booster for Pfizer or AZ is not needed, set against 'this is not what approval was based on'. And that a booster for variants down the track would be a better outcome. As usual there are qualifications, and no explanation for statistic divergence for 3rd world trials, Vs. excellent results coming out of UK and Scotland. It would be nice to see numbers for 'boosters' and impact on the spacing. Australia may also be able to skip overregulation for booster shots, if 'no complications' from the first, for say under 65's.

Oh, when did Scotland leave the UK?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I understood their previous orders wouldn't have covered everyone.

Yes. New Zealand had to do something as they did not have access to enough doses to vaccinate everyone within a year.

It was not long ago that the reports were:

New Zealand expects its nationwide rollout will take a full year.​

New Zealand's coronavirus vaccine rollout has begun

New Zealand expects its nationwide rollout will take a full year.

www.sbs.com.au

And back in mid-December 2020 it was:

Talking about the mass inoculation, Ardern said New Zealand would have to wait till the second quarter of the next year to get the vaccines. However, once the process starts healthcare workers and border officials would be prioritised.​

So past deals way too slow. Pfizer has obviously come to the party. New Zealand Government have been slow to get agreements in place for timely vaccinations.

New Zealand has secured an extra 8.5 million does of Pfizer's Covid vaccine - enough for every New Zealander, the Government says.​

​

The vaccines will be available in the middle of this year and the Government says the deal announced today will streamline the rollout to the public.​

​

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the move means New Zealand "is one step closer to moving away from restrictions to manage Covid-19".​

​

The additional 8.5 million doses are enough to vaccinate 4.25 million people, as each person requires two jabs.​

​

 

[dajop]

Well NZ obviously feel Pfizer is superior, as they have decided to order enough for everyone and wait for that delivery, despite having other options available.

It cant be cost, because AZ is less expensive than Pfizer and has lower transport and storage costs too. There must have been some advice to come to the decision to spend more and wait longer for Pfizer over others. Otherwise why wouldnt NZ buy AZ and get it sooner?

We can speculate why NZ ended up committing entirely to Pfizer, and no doubt there were multiple factors involved, but they did already have significant quantities of Pfizer coming. From the Stuff article I linked above:

“Whilst the Pfizer vaccine does need to be kept at ultra-cold temperatures, this challenge is offset by only having to deal with one vaccine, rather than multiple vaccines with multiple protocols. It will simplify our vaccine roll out,” Ardern said.

In any event it does not distract from Australia's significant committment to the AZ vaccine which is proving efficaceous, particularly with local manufacturing capacity being utilised.