General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[OZDUCK]

I mentioned the other day about the recent increase in US infections. It now appears that head of the CDC is worried that this rise could 'beat' the vaccination attempts. To quote "the C.D.C. director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, appeared to fight back tears as she pleaded with Americans to “hold on a little while longer” and continue following public health advice, like wearing masks and social distancing, to curb the virus’s spread."

In the second story, a province in Canada has stopped approving the vaccination of people under 55's with the AstraZeneca vaccine because of concerns about blood clots. This is despite no incidences of blood clots actually occuring in Canada. The USA is currently supplying some 1.5 million doses of that vaccine to Canada to replace European stock that has been delayed.

Biden Pushes Mask Mandate as C.D.C. Director Warns of ‘Impending Doom’

The administration is stepping up the pace of vaccinations and expanding access to shots, but it remains in a race against a virus on the upswing.

www.nytimes.com

Manitoba limits AstraZeneca vaccine, reports 136 new cases of COVID-19 variants - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

Since last March, Manitoba has recorded 33,975 cases of COVID-19.

globalnews.ca

 

[jakeseven7]

I mentioned the other day about the recent increase in US infections. It now appears that head of the CDC is worried that this rise could 'beat' the vaccination attempts. To quote "the C.D.C. director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, appeared to fight back tears as she pleaded with Americans to “hold on a little while longer” and continue following public health advice, like wearing masks and social distancing, to curb the virus’s spread."

In the second story, a province in Canada has stopped approving the vaccination of people under 55's with the AstraZeneca vaccine because of concerns about blood clots. This is despite no incidences of blood clots actually occuring in Canada. The USA is currently supplying some 1.5 million doses of that vaccine to Canada to replace European stock that has been delayed.

Biden Pushes Mask Mandate as C.D.C. Director Warns of ‘Impending Doom’

The administration is stepping up the pace of vaccinations and expanding access to shots, but it remains in a race against a virus on the upswing.

www.nytimes.com

Manitoba limits AstraZeneca vaccine, reports 136 new cases of COVID-19 variants - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

Since last March, Manitoba has recorded 33,975 cases of COVID-19.

globalnews.ca

BC in Canada has just resorted to a 3 week snap circuit breaker lockdown due to the rapidly rising third wave and vaccines drying up due to the EU and Indian blockade...

 

[Pushka]

I mentioned the other day about the recent increase in US infections. It now appears that head of the CDC is worried that this rise could 'beat' the vaccination attempts. To quote "the C.D.C. director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, appeared to fight back tears as she pleaded with Americans to “hold on a little while longer” and continue following public health advice, like wearing masks and social distancing, to curb the virus’s spread."

In the second story, a province in Canada has stopped approving the vaccination of people under 55's with the AstraZeneca vaccine because of concerns about blood clots. This is despite no incidences of blood clots actually occuring in Canada. The USA is currently supplying some 1.5 million doses of that vaccine to Canada to replace European stock that has been delayed.

Biden Pushes Mask Mandate as C.D.C. Director Warns of ‘Impending Doom’

The administration is stepping up the pace of vaccinations and expanding access to shots, but it remains in a race against a virus on the upswing.

www.nytimes.com

Manitoba limits AstraZeneca vaccine, reports 136 new cases of COVID-19 variants - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

Since last March, Manitoba has recorded 33,975 cases of COVID-19.

globalnews.ca

Canadian Govt is covering their collective backside as they can only source vaccinations from EU and India and both especially India have slammed their exports shut for the moment. So no new stock coming for a while.

 

[burmans]

It is a problem because the OS drops of AZ evaporated and the local production was not ready to fill the gap. I’m not sure anyone could have predicted the blockade...

Actually I read reports predicting exactly that in about September/October last year well before we even had a vaccination. Doesn't take a genius to work out that in a world where the virus is rampant there will be a lot of people who want the vaccine and actually producing and supplying might be a challenge. The same articles predicted that some countries would intervene to ensure their own people got the vaccination first.

I'd take the opposite view, anyone who didn't have this as a risk with mitigation plans to address hadn't performed an adequate risk assessment.

 

[OZDUCK]

Canadian Govt is covering their collective backside as they can only source vaccinations from EU and India and both especially India have slammed their exports shut for the moment. So no new stock coming for a while.

They are getting those 'emergency' supplies from the USA but that is obviously only a temporary measure. I guess we have to be very thankful to Billy Hughes for setting up the Commonwealth Serums Labs., and the foundations for CSIRO, back in 1916.

 

[RooFlyer]

Coronavirus vaccine Phase 1b rollout frustrating Australian GP clinics​

GPs frustrated with coronavirus vaccine shortage and poor communication

An online eligibility checker for the coronavirus vaccine directs people to call GP clinics in their area but some providers are being caught off guard, some were left of the list and all have too few doses to meet demand.

www.abc.net.au

Reported on 19th March

The GP spokes-people were complaining well before Phase 1b even started. Something to do with money . (And before anyone fires up the flame-thrower, its the GP national body reps that were complaining .. not talking about the in-the-clinic- GPs).

All this complaining, and complaining ... about "too slow" reminds me of the guy down the back of the plane who stands up and complains loudly about not having his meal served yet, when they have just started at the front of the section.. Then complains again about the same thing. Then complains again about the same thing ... etc etc.

Now, I like a good moan up with the best of them, but by about the 10th time round or so, I find that its just a bit counter-productive. YMMV

 

[RooFlyer]

Actually I read reports predicting exactly that in about September/October last year well before we even had a vaccination. Doesn't take a genius to work out that in a world where the virus is rampant there will be a lot of people who want the vaccine and actually producing and supplying might be a challenge. The same articles predicted that some countries would intervene to ensure their own people got the vaccination first.

I'd take the opposite view, anyone who didn't have this as a risk with mitigation plans to address hadn't performed an adequate risk assessment.

Not sure of the point being made, but the approval/funding for CSL to make the AZ in Australia was done back in November, even before it was proven an effective and safe vaccine. And supply contracts for the supply of one other Australian and two other vaccines were entered into for I think twice or tree times as many doses as we will need. The other Aussie vaccine fell away in trials.

I reckon that's not a bad risk mitigation strategy.

The EU blockade is disgraceful and should not be forgiven.

 

[Pushka]

Not sure of the point being made, but the approval/funding for CSL to make the AZ in Australia was done back in November, even before it was proven an effective and safe vaccine. And supply contracts for the supply of one other Australian and two other vaccines were entered into for I think twice or tree times as many doses as we will need. The other Aussie vaccine fell away in trials.

I reckon that's not a bad risk mitigation strategy.

The EU blockade is disgraceful and should not be forgiven.

Tasmania has one of the highest vaccination rates pp.

 

[Toula92122]

And this graphic shows how Oz has done in first 40 days of vaccination vs other countries. It's pretty sad that we are trailing behind EU who have made a total cluster of their roll out.

Australia Covid vaccine tracker: how is the rollout progressing and when will you get the jab?

How does Australia’s vaccine rollout compare with other countries and when will you be eligible to get vaccinated?

www.theguardian.com

 

[mviy]

If the EU hadn't blocked deliveries we would be ahead of where we are now. If we hadn't decided to produce vaccines locally we'd be in a huge mess with little to no chance of vaccinating the majority of the population till next year sometime. Without local production with shipments being blocked we'd be struggling to try to do 1B this year let alone 2A, 2B etc.

 

[DC3]

For those interested, as at yesterday, the US has now administered 143 million doses, with 51.6 million having had their second dose.

Edit: Now running at about 2.7 million doses administered per day, on average

 

[dajop]

Is there a mechanism yet for demonstrating vaccination status (technologically), at least for use within Australia? Or still under development? I haven't read too much about this.

I noticed here in Singapore, the latest update of our app (that was originally a basis or inspiration for the "CovidSafe App" that the federal government developed) has evolved to include vaccination status. Really a good one stop shop for everything Covid related (unless your are, or hang around, with rapists, murderers or drug traffickers as the government can access the data for investigating serious crimes) ...

 

[burmans]

Not sure of the point being made, but the approval/funding for CSL to make the AZ in Australia was done back in November, even before it was proven an effective and safe vaccine. And supply contracts for the supply of one other Australian and two other vaccines were entered into for I think twice or tree times as many doses as we will need. The other Aussie vaccine fell away in trials.

I reckon that's not a bad risk mitigation strategy.

The EU blockade is disgraceful and should not be forgiven.

Like just about everything to do with Covid it's the end date that matters not the start. I agree the decision to go with AZ local production was a good strategy but the measure of any strategy is whether and how fast it achieves its objective, not just an announcement. It's increasingly clear this wont be 'over' (as in return to something like normal) until all get fully vaccinated (or as close to all as possible). And all the evidence point to Australia being slower than most of the first world in achieving this.

As for the EU blockade being disgraceful, well maybe but hardly unexpected. All states including Australia frequently put their own interests first, if we do it we shouldn't be at all surprised when others do.

 

[dajop]

And all the evidence point to Australia being slower than most of the first world in achieving this.

Except that the fire isn't burning quite as ferociously in Australia as most of the first world. If you compare to other developed countries where the fire is not burning, namely Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Singapore and Taiwan, only Singapore is ahead of Australia, and that was always going to be the case ....

 

[burmans]

Except that the fire isn't burning quite as ferociously in Australia as most of the first world. If you compare to other developed countries where the fire is not burning, namely Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Singapore and Taiwan, only Singapore is ahead of Australia, and that was always going to be the case ....

But once again you are referring to the short term, I totally agree the UK/US/Europe have more pressing immediate needs. But I can guarantee if/when we get to about September and these countries are fully vaccinated and back to near normal, tolerance for this line amongst Australians (and, yes probably the other countries you mention) wont be quite as complimentary.

If we'd kept to the original October to be fully vaccinated I don't think people would have been concerned but pushing into 2021 just isn't satisfactory.

PS. Not sure I agree with Japan in this group.

 

[dajop]

PS. Not sure I agree with Japan in this group.

Because they are vaccinating better, or they have let the virus "go"?

In any event, I think the true test for Australia vaccine rollout will be when supply ramps up, and what the lag will be. Looking from afar and understanding the experience of relatives in Australia (and observations of those on AFF) it does seem to have the making of a fustercluck.

I understand the role of GPs in administering to those with identified comorbidities (1b) and those with medical conditions that might preclude getting the vaccination, but beyond that, it would seem an efficient electronic appointment system for administration at network community halls (or like facilities) would provide a far more efficient mechanism, although that could be problematic from a staffing perspective (and assume why it hasn't been done).

 

[RooFlyer]

but the measure of any strategy is whether and how fast it achieves its objective, not just an announcement. It's increasingly clear this wont be 'over' (as in return to something like normal) until all get fully vaccinated (or as close to all as possible). And all the evidence point to Australia being slower than most of the first world in achieving this.

I don't think we are a million miles apart, but I'd very much disagree that speed is necessarily important in achieving one's objective. "Slow and steady wins ... " and all that. yes, Australia may be 'slower than most' in getting needles into arms, but the metric of "most effectively vaccinated" I think may be the more relevant, and won't be known for ages.

Again, there was and is simply no speed imperative in Australia. Our infection rate an especially our death rate is simply tiny compared to comparable western countries - witness Canada!! The UK , the USA, many European countries.

Right now, COVID is barely an issue in Australia. If it wasn't for the panic-stations reactions of certain (most) Premiers, it likely wouldn't make the news outside the state where its occurring. Put bluntly, we are not losing as many people to serious illness or death than even a mild flu season. I have never heard criticism of past flu vaccination roll-outs anything like what we are hearing now for COVID. I wonder why.

I reckon one of the reasons for a comparatively 'slow' ramp-up (ignoring for a moment the lack of actual vaccines, which a number of our correspondents do all the time ) is that, absent any emergency, the authorities didn't want a procession of 'cough-up' stories in the media which may deter people from being vaccinated. The "4x the dose" story was bad enough - can you imagine the number of such stories that might have been splashed about if the authorities had hurled vaccines out into the community and said "everyone just GO FOR IT!!"? (My hyperbole, not yours ...). Whether or not such would have occurred we'll never know, but just remember back at how strong the push-back against vaccination was for a while (and still is).

 

[drron]

And one of the reasons GPs are complaining is probably because about 1 million of the 1.68 million in 1b wanted their vaccine in the first week.

 

[burmans]

And one of the reasons GPs are complaining is probably because about 1 million of the 1.68 million in 1b wanted their vaccine in the first week.

Well of course this is what happens when a trigger happy politician or three goes public telling the general public that 1b participants will be able to get their vaccinations a couple of weeks before this was really true. It was the GPS wearing the brunt of this so for one I’m not surprised they complained.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And one of the reasons GPs are complaining is probably because about 1 million of the 1.68 million in 1b wanted their vaccine in the first week.

It may be one of the reasons... but the lack of supply is the real problem. On the Melbourne news tonight one GP clinic said they were down for 20 doses a week! That's just crazy... the logistics and bureaucracy involved in delivering those 20 doses would be insane, and probably not worth it. Perhaps that time could have been better spent organising mass vaccination centres.

As I mentioned above, we're *still* waiting for our GP to call us back with an appointment time for my folks to have their vaccine. That's after two calls (a week apart), being added to waiting lists, and doing the pre-registration over the phone. The council vaccination centre 5 mins away has over 250 appointments available every day. We booked at booked at 930 and were in at 1130. How much time and cost is being wasted with clinics and clinic-networks fielding calls, adding people to waiting lists, going through patient records, doing pre-registration? And for what?