General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[Lynda2475]

88% is better than 60%, and significantly shorter period to be fully vaccinated (3 weeks vs 12 weeks) enough said.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Doesn't make the AZ vaccine look that good, really. 88% vs 60%,

Though when you read the commentary:

The difference in effectiveness between the vaccines after 2 doses may be explained by the fact that rollout of second doses of AstraZeneca was later than for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, and other data on antibody profiles show it takes longer to reach maximum effectiveness with the AstraZeneca vaccine.​

And the conclusion of the researchers:

After 2 doses of either vaccine there were only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness with the B.1.617.2 variant. Absolute differences in vaccine effectiveness were more marked with dose 1. This would support maximising vaccine uptake with 2 doses among vulnerable groups​

​

So if one has the choice of vaccinating now with AZ over waiting say 3 to 6 months for Pfizer, AZ is the is going to increase your safety much quicker. The community benefit is also achieved much earlier. The more people who vaccinate now, the earlier and better we as a nation/community are protected.

Australia currently rolling out both AZ and Pfizer in order to protect the community quicker, and then those that vaccinate with that most likely will get a Moderna Booster in 2022.



It is quite likely that those that get their AZ/Pfizer r vaccine earlier will also get their Moderna booster earlier.

 

[ethernet]

Here is the 4th in the series with Alan Cheng talking about blood clots and AZ.

https://vod-progressive.akamaized.net/exp=1621665879~acl=%2Fvimeo-prod-skyfire-std-us%2F01%2F3592%2F21%2F542964691%2F2575004388.mp4~hmac=21c23a3fc3d06e3326b0b889e0c03d16f3ed4cc24451534dc76f1a3d00f8fec1/vimeo-prod-skyfire-std-us/01/3592/21/542964691/2575004388.mp4?filename=Medflix+2021+-+RACP+COVID-19+Vaccination+Webinar+-+22+April+2021.mp4

I have been able to do this as the college now allows direct access to everybody.Unfortunately it does make the info a bit out of date.

Just a possible reason why AZ might still become the most used vaccine.The clotting issue is very similiar to that caused by Heparin.A study in the USA showed that American Indians had double the chance of developing this but all other patients were white.No cases found in any other minority.It is quite probable this is a genetic problem hence possible that most of the world may be able to use it without problems.

Adobe Acrobat

documentcloud.adobe.com

This Blood group theory is very un-scientific, but so is singling out indigenous tribes without any hard evidence for special treatment. Between HIT and Covid shots, blood type risk analysis should be showing up.

Blood group O alleles in Native Americans: implications in the peopling of the Americas - PubMed

All major ABO blood alleles are found in most populations worldwide, whereas the majority of Native Americans are nearly exclusively in the O group. O allele molecular characterization could aid in elucidating the possible causes of group O predominance in Native American populations. In this...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Type O Rh -ve

Real world results show Pfizer more effective qgainst Indian and UK variants than Astra Zeneca.

Two Pfizer COVID-19 shots effective against variant first identified in India: U.K. study

A double dose of COVID-19 vaccines is almost as effective against the fast-spreading variant of the coronavirus first identified in India as it is against Britain's dominant strain, English health officials said on Saturday.

www.ctvnews.ca

Blood Grouping Among the “Blackfeet” and “Blood” Tribes of American Indians

Although various tribes of American Indians have consistently been reported as belonging primarily to group O, the Blackfeet and Blood tribes appear to be an exception, showing as high a percentage of group A as other tribes show of group O. This may be seen by comparing tables 2 and 3, with 1...

www.jimmunol.org

The American Indians had a very high likelihood of being type O, whereas it was not common in Asians. About one-third of the Asians were type B, but this group was almost non-existent among Indians. In a pattern that would become familiar with genetic studies of American Indian origins, Iverson noted;
The majority of the people in the world have the Rh+ blood type. ... Native Americans and Australian Aborigines were very likely 99-100% Rh+ before they began interbreeding with people from other parts of the world.

 

[ethernet]

And I have already quoted an Indian study of health care workers fully vaccinated with the AZ vaccine showing 98.4% effectiveness against symptomatic and asymptomatic disease.

And by implication, moronic politicians and State premiers saying 1.6% is too much to talk about home quarantine or overseas flights, and on arrival test(s). And now evidence, that 12 months on, protection is still good or improved. I would argue people who got their AZ shots early, are the socially responsible sorts, and that everyone fully vaccinated before the October election is called, gets to go OS, like the rest of the civilized world, bar places where airline groundings are foreseen.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Why don't they combine the testing & vaccine sites into one? Get tested, get first jab?

Melbourne is on the brink of another major lock down - again.

 

[Flashback]

Why don't they combine the testing & vaccine sites into one? Get tested, get first jab?

Melbourne is on the brink of another major lock down - again.

You can't have the vaccine if you have an active infection. Generally if you are there to be tested there is a chance you might have it, so ...

 

[Lynda2475]

More good news that Moderna is actively moving ahead with process to have an Australian presence.

"Documents filed with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) show this process has begun, with an application lodged by Moderna on May 14 to set up a company called Moderna Australia. "

US vaccine maker Moderna pushes ahead with setting up shop in Australia

The US mRNA vaccine maker is getting the documents in place to set up an Australian business.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Oneworldplus2]

You can't have the vaccine if you have an active infection.

Oh, my bad. I must have been thinking about Remdesivir or something like that.

Interesting that Victoria has opened up to anyone over the age of 40 for the vaccine (Pfizer/BioNTech)

Bookings only

Phone lines jammed - swamped. Forget about it.

Like l said previously (and was brushed down on AFF) - the vaccination hubs should be going 24/7 - 365 - until demand subsides.

I'm down in Melbourne for work atm and coincidentally on nightshift. Me and a few work colleagues would go at 2am for the jab, but out of luck....

ROLL IT OUT

 

[Flashback]

Oh, my bad. I must have been thinking about Remdesivir or something like that.

Interesting that Victoria has opened up to anyone over the age of 40 for the vaccine (Pfizer/BioNTech)

Bookings only

Phone lines jammed - swamped. Forget about it.

Like l said previously (and was brushed down on AFF) - the vaccination hubs should be going 24/7 - 365 - until demand subsides.

I'm down in Melbourne for work atm and coincidentally on nightshift. Me and a few work colleagues would go at 2am for the jab, but out of luck....

ROLL IT OUT

They didn't even offer 24x7 in the UK. They just need to sort their logistics out a bit better and they'd do better..... c'est la vie.

 

[Must...Fly!]

If they aren't confirming second dose timing upfront, there is a huge risk of people not being able to get appointments for second dose at the recommended interval.

Keep in mind the ATAGI advice is not strictly 21 days for Pfizer.

The recommended interval between two doses of Comirnaty is at least 21 days. The minimum acceptable interval between the two doses is 19 days. It is recommended to complete the two-dose course within 6 weeks. This allows time for logistical considerations, including supply and timing of access to vaccine at the individual and clinic levels. These limits are based on the intervals between doses studied in clinical trials.

Shortening of the minimum acceptable interval may result in a sub-optimal immune response. If two doses have inadvertently been given at a shorter than the minimum acceptable interval, it is not currently recommended that a vaccine dose is repeated. This is because there are no data on administration of more than two vaccine doses and there is still a likelihood of good protection in that individual.

Longer intervals between first and second doses may need to be recommended during program rollout if epidemiological considerations warrant a change (e.g. during an outbreak response to ensure available doses are provided as first doses to as many people as possible). If the second dose of Comirnaty is administered later than the recommended interval, no further doses are required.

Although Comirnaty may provide partial protection against COVID-19 as soon as 12 days after the first dose, this protection is likely to be short lived. A two-dose course is recommended for optimal protection.

And similar with AstraZeneca.

In clinical trials, the timing of administration of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca ranged from approximately 4 weeks up to 26 weeks. In a post-hoc analysis, vaccine efficacy following the second dose of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca progressively increased with a longer interval between doses and appeared to be greatest when the interval was ≥12 weeks.

Short-term efficacy from 3 weeks after the first dose, before the second dose and up to 12 weeks post vaccination was about 73% (95% CI: 48.79–85.76).39Also refer to the Vaccine information section for further information. Short term efficacy from 22 days until 90 days after a single dose was 76% (95% CI: 59·3–85·9). The duration of protection after a single dose has not yet been established, and a second dose is recommended for optimal protection.

Shortening the interval from 12 weeks to no less than 4 weeks between doses is acceptable and may be appropriate in certain circumstances, for example, imminent travel or anticipated risk of COVID-19 exposure. If a dose has been inadvertently given before the minimum 4-week interval, it is not currently recommended that the vaccine dose be repeated.

If the second dose of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca is administered later than the recommended interval, no further doses are required.

See pages 12 & 13 of the latest clinical guidance.

ATAGI clinical guidance for COVID-19 vaccine providers

Find links to clinical guidance on COVID-19 vaccination from the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI).

www.health.gov.au

I will let this wave of calls to the vaccine hotline in Victoria pass before booking for my second jab. Would rather more get started on a dose to be honest, before I go back for a second.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Keep in mind the ATAGI advice is not strictly 21 days for Pfizer.



And similar with AstraZeneca.



See pages 12 & 13 of the latest clinical guidance.

ATAGI clinical guidance for COVID-19 vaccine providers

Find links to clinical guidance on COVID-19 vaccination from the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI).

www.health.gov.au

I will let this wave of calls to the vaccine hotline in Victoria pass before booking for my second jab. Would rather more get started on a dose to be honest, before I go back for a second.

My daughter had a very big gap between her Pfizer jabs - she had her first jab in London in early January. Left earlier than expected due to flight cancellations and having to take whatever she could get. Then between hotel quarantine and when her new hospital started vaccinating, she probably had a 7 week gap. No one seemed to feel it was too much of a issue, although she was prioritised to get her second jab.

 

[jakeseven7]

The intervals between the vaccines are variable and not as critical it has been identified, so not as critical as once thought in the early days of the roll outs.

They just need to jab anyone..... fast....

 

[Flashback]

My daughter had a very big gap between her Pfizer jabs - she had her first jab in London in early January. Left earlier than expected due to flight cancellations and having to take whatever she could get. Then between hotel quarantine and when her new hospital started vaccinating, she probably had a 7 week gap. No one seemed to feel it was too much of a issue, although she was prioritised to get her second jab.

If you ask any of the vaxxers in the UK they'd say 7 weeks was too early, regardless of Pfizer or AZ they recommend a minimum of 8 weeks between each jab for better efficacy rates. 12 is still preferred, although in the last 2 weeks they have brought lots forward closer to the 8 week mark.

 

[moa999]

Study behind that was only for older people.

Delaying the second dose of covid-19 vaccines

Concerns remain about effectiveness in older adults On 30 December 2020, the UK announced a deviation from the recommended protocol for the Pfizer-BioNTech covid-19 vaccine, prolonging the interval between doses from 3 to 12 weeks.12 Similar decisions were made for the Oxford-AstraZeneca...

www.bmj.com

Pfizer recommendation is still 3wks between doses.

Mind you the UK is juggling efficacy and ensuring people don't get Covid.

 

[Flashback]

Study behind that was only for older people.

Delaying the second dose of covid-19 vaccines

Concerns remain about effectiveness in older adults On 30 December 2020, the UK announced a deviation from the recommended protocol for the Pfizer-BioNTech covid-19 vaccine, prolonging the interval between doses from 3 to 12 weeks.12 Similar decisions were made for the Oxford-AstraZeneca...

www.bmj.com

Pfizer recommendation is still 3wks between doses.

Mind you the UK is juggling efficacy and ensuring people don't get Covid.

That's nearly 2.5 months old though, is there anything more recent? Certainly all the Drs I've spoken to here have the view efficacy for Pfizer is still better at 8+ weeks based on real world data they're seeing.

 

[Lynda2475]

Certainly all the Drs I've spoken to here have the view efficacy for Pfizer is still better at 8+ weeks based on real world data they're seeing.

But US are doing 21 days for Pfizer and 28 for Moderna - if 3 weeks was too short wouldn't we be seeing a move to change things in the USA? The USA has a much larger population and have given a lot more mrna doses than UK.

 

[Flashback]

But US are doing 21 days for Pfizer and 28 for Moderna - if 3 weeks was too short wouldn't we be seeing a move to change things in the USA? The USA has a much larger population and have given a lot more mrna doses than UK.

.... and have a look at the rate of cases, hospitalisations, deaths etc. in the US. Much higher than the UK, who has followed an elongated schedule.

 

[Lynda2475]

Most of the reports about stretching the dosage window in UK was to maximize how many could get a first shot and partial immunity. The stated intention was to maximise benefit with limited supplies and to minimise hospital admissions and deaths; not to improve the performance of the vaccine.

I will get my second Pfizer does 21 days after the first, it is in Australia's bets interest that people are fully vaccinated asap. The sweet spot according to ATAGI is 21-42 days. Here 12 weeks is only recommended for AZ.

the rate of cases, hospitalisations, deaths

Has there been more deaths and hospitalizations in people fully vaccinated with Pfizer in USA after 3 weeks vs those in fully vaccinated with Pfizer in UK who waited 12 weeks? Because if your talking deaths' and hospitalization for unvaccinated people then that has no bearing on the recommended gap between doses.

UK has NHS meaning most people can access health care. In USA if you don't have insurance you often don't get treated.

 

[drron]

But US are doing 21 days for Pfizer and 28 for Moderna - if 3 weeks was too short wouldn't we be seeing a move to change things in the USA? The USA has a much larger population and have given a lot more mrna doses than UK.

And have had a lot higher proportion of vaccinated people hospitalised and dying.


Real world figures from the UK may indeed be real.

 

[MelMel]

If you ask any of the vaxxers in the UK they'd say 7 weeks was too early, regardless of Pfizer or AZ they recommend a minimum of 8 weeks between each jab for better efficacy rates. 12 is still preferred, although in the last 2 weeks they have brought lots forward closer to the 8 week mark.

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202105/Appendix%202_Fact%20sheet%20-%20Info%20about%20timing%20between%20doses_Pfizer%20vaccine_140521.docx

Victoria seems to agree, dated February 2021