General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[MARTINE]

It is definitely important to check. My first dose wasn't recorded - was a pretty easy fix as I had the AZ jab at a GP clinic so I could actually talk to someone responsible. I have a friend who had a similar error but she had her vax at one of the vaccine hubs - she fixed it, but it took days and many, many phone calls.

I’m also now officially a month younger

 

[drron]

Well there are certainly a few reasons now for those in the USA to get vaccinated.
As reported here the EU will now only allow vaccinated Americans to enter.

In Chicago a judge has ordered a woman to be vaccinated before she will again be allowed shared custody of her son.

Judge strips Chicago mother of parental rights for not being vaccinated

A Chicago mother is appealing a court order that revoked her parental visiting rights because she declined to be vaccinated against the coronavirus.

news.yahoo.com

And Dr.Fauci warns there could be another 100000 covid deaths by year's end unless the vaccination rate speeds up.

Fauci says 100k new COVID-19 deaths by December are ‘predictable but preventable’

“it’s so important now, in this crisis that we’re in that people put aside any ideologic, political or other differences, and just get vaccinated.”

thehill.com

 

[ethernet]

Maybe this post belongs in news, maybe not, because Gladys did not answer simple covid questions. Todays press conference was interesting. And I just add South Korea, also now says 3 doses are needed for full vaccination. NSW will look stupid if the OECD makes the same announcement before October. I paraphrase what I remember.
Also ACT govt said the Cwth plan is silent on what happens to borders when 80% is achieved.

Question: Will those in hard lockdown areas have the same freedoms as other when we hit 70%?
No definitive answer. Tried to cut to another reporter, who said, no, take your time, answer the previous question. Waffle Waffle. 'Get fully vaccinated, immediately ,or suffer the consequences' might have been one answer.

Question: What is the worst model/Prediction on number of cases. Can you tell me what is the highest one you remember seeing? (It seems the press has got hold of a 2500 cases report from chatter).
Gladys: There are many models .. waffle it changes daily- waffle - outright avoidance of the question, up there with Dan's don't know who decided on private security guards issue.

Alternative truth: 'We are making this up on the run, and won't fall for the trap on being cornered if things fall apart or are much much worse than predicted'. Saving lives is more important than your morning coffee and smashed avo.

My analysis: NSW TTIQ has been outstanding, saved many lives. NSW Intensive doctors need a big cheer, and ICU deaths much much lower across all age groups. Hospital doctors are not appreciated enough for outstanding dedication and crazy work hours. The assumption that NSW private hospitals wont have any major leakages when taking on the expected surge - is not a given.

1.1K is much better than my 1.4K guesstimate, especially since Western NSW has not blossomed, yet. I see isolated seeding events far and wide. If we assume 2500 as the most likely - then one must assume MORE unannounced LGA lockdowns are coming, and being kept through September. Airline travel is not looking good, at all.

 

[Quickstatus]

Some prelim info re Israel Pfizer 3jab
Effectiveness 11 times better than 2jab
92% efficacy

 

[JB expat]

As a Melbournite who is one of the many who are thoroughly depressed after this afternoon's announcement, I cannot help but imagine what Aus would look like if the vaccine rollout was treated like a race when we had zero cases. Would people just not have vaccinated which would have make the current situation inevitable at some point? OR, if the full selection of vaccine brands had been available, would be the envy of the world?

 

[Must...Fly!]

As a Melbournite who is one of the many who are thoroughly depressed after this afternoon's announcement, I cannot help but imagine what Aus would look like if the vaccine rollout was treated like a race when we had zero cases. Would people just not have vaccinated which would have make the current situation inevitable at some point. OR, if the full selection of vaccine brands had been available, would be the envy of the world?

The former, enough stories have been told to me from people in WA who still believe COVID is no threat to them.

 

[tgh]

The need for a booster is challenging ; in the big picture there is no time for boosters when you are trying to save the masses.
Leads to seeking out private options, there is plenty of vaccine about and it seems sensible that folks who can pay may be able to organise a shot.
Just how is moot….

 

[Lynda2475]

The need for a booster is challenging ; in the big picture there is no time for boosters when you are trying to save the masses.
Leads to seeking out private options, there is plenty of vaccine about and it seems sensible that folks who can pay may be able to organise a shot.

In Israel, UK and US boosters are being given 8-9 months after dose 2, so by the time most Aussies need them there will be plenty of Pfizer and Moderna available to get one.

 

[JB expat]

The need for a booster is challenging ; in the big picture there is no time for boosters when you are trying to save the masses.
Leads to seeking out private options, there is plenty of vaccine about and it seems sensible that folks who can pay may be able to organise a shot.
Just how is moot….

I would say the booster is challenging, but much less urgent that double vaccinating as many people as possible.

I heard a public health expert say that it is really in the best interest of the world to not give anyone a booster until all populations have had a real chance to be double vaccinated. All food for thought. I agree with the sentiment, yet I will line up for the booster the first chance I get if it is all that stands between me and seeing my family - and I'd pay privately (legally of course) for it. These past 2 years will present so many interesting issues to study in hindsight - all the data, all the different approaches etc etc.

 

[tgh]

by the time most Aussies need them there will be plenty

There will be an overlap.. folks like me who were very early will have reduced immunity while the masses are fed.
That's ok, I can pay my way, just need to find the way

 

[mviy]

They need supply to exceed demand and to have no more of the population to open up eligibility to before starting boosters for the masses. Perhaps boosters for people in aged care and frontline workers could start sooner if it's deemed necessary to do so (e.g. if they start to see higher numbers in ICU from fully vaccinated in these groups).

Kids 12-15 may/may not get fully vaccinated before the end of the year and it's possible eligibility could be expanded to younger age groups.

 

[MARTINE]

The former, enough stories have been told to me from people in WA who still believe COVID is no threat to them.

..until after the Grand Final

…..and I fully agree …… zero Covid was zero motivation for most people to get vaccinated..I am also in Melb and me and hubby got vaxed as soon as possible. It was close to empty…

The only good to come out of ‘it’s not a race’ was - we could learn from O/seas experience about early identification and treatment of the rare post-AZ clotting issue. It is rare and we can prevent deaths from this now with appropriate treatment.. You never hear it talked about in the media now (not an issue) but sadly the damage was already done and AZ’s reputation trashed beyond resuscitation.

As a trained doctor (albeit retired) living in a wealthy country like Australia - I could weep about ready access to life saving vaccination being rejected by people. Its a ‘luxury’ most people in some countries would dream about.

 

[jakeseven7]

Just listened to radio on my morning run, Moderna CEO is claiming that their vaccine protection ‘doesn’t fall away as quickly as Pfizer’ and ‘still has high levels of protection albeit less than AZ after 6 months’ according to new data released.

Of course this is coming from someone with a VERY vested interest so will google around to see if I can find this ‘study’.

Interesting though they feel the need to defend themselves in the media about the much faster than expected ‘protection fade’ that is beginning to stick to the two big mRNA vaccines.

 

[MARTINE]

Just listened to radio on my morning run, Moderna CEO is claiming that their vaccine protection ‘doesn’t fall away as quickly as Pfizer’ and ‘still has high levels of protection albeit less than AZ after 6 months’ according to new data released.

Of course this is coming from someone with a VERY vested interest so will google around to see if I can find this ‘study’.

Interesting though they feel the need to defend themselves in the media about the much faster than expected ‘protection fade’ that is beginning to stick to the two big mRNA vaccines.

Yes
….its incredible how this pandemic has created a world of armchair virologists/epidemiologists … each narrative prompts this defensive response by the science lest the ‘AZ effect’ happen and good drugs become junk (in the minds of the populace)..
Yes - everyone can have an opinion...
but if you need surgery you expect the surgeon to do it as they are competently trained and legally registered to do so. Its not a process of taking the opinions of the nurse, cleaner, ward clerk or orderly into account (None of this disrespects these people or their roles).
Throw politics into the mix and a hungry media and the outcome is a totally unhelpful response to a global health threat.
I weep again..
PS - if anyone asks my opinion on how to build a bridge I’ll direct them to an engineer

 

[Seat0B]

I would say the booster is challenging, but much less urgent that double vaccinating as many people as possible.

I heard a public health expert say that it is really in the best interest of the world to not give anyone a booster until all populations have had a real chance to be double vaccinated. All food for thought. I agree with the sentiment, yet I will line up for the booster the first chance I get if it is all that stands between me and seeing my family - and I'd pay privately (legally of course) for it. These past 2 years will present so many interesting issues to study in hindsight - all the data, all the different approaches etc etc.

by the time most Aussies need them there will be plenty

There will be an overlap.. folks like me who were very early will have reduced immunity while the masses are fed.
That's ok, I can pay my way, just need to find the way

I am quite interested to see how this plays out into the future.

Will COVID boosters be like childhood immunisations and free to all? Or will they be like flu shots - free to the vulnerable and elderly, but everyone else pays? Or like travel shots - you want it, you pay for it?

 

[JB expat]

This made me smile - at least WA is consistent compared to QLD who let in the rugby team (not sure if I have my sports teams correct).

Eddie McGuire denied entry to WA for AFL grand final

Football commentator Eddie McGuire will miss out on the AFL grand final for the first time in 45 years after the WA government rejected his application to enter the state.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Must...Fly!]

There is no way any government will charge for a COVID vaccine in this country. Not for many many years anyway.

Just listened to radio on my morning run, Moderna CEO is claiming that their vaccine protection ‘doesn’t fall away as quickly as Pfizer’ and ‘still has high levels of protection albeit less than AZ after 6 months’ according to new data released.

If I recall, the mRNA dosing for Moderna is ~3-4x the quantity as in Pfizer so this is not a surprise if true?

 

[Pushka]

This made me smile - at least WA is consistent compared to QLD who let in the rugby team (not sure if I have my sports teams correct).

Eddie McGuire denied entry to WA for AFL grand final

Football commentator Eddie McGuire will miss out on the AFL grand final for the first time in 45 years after the WA government rejected his application to enter the state.

www.theage.com.au

Apparently he put his Kids on the request as people involved in the tv production (think they are in their teens) but there's no record of their employment.

 

[oz_mark]

As a Melbournite who is one of the many who are thoroughly depressed after this afternoon's announcement, I cannot help but imagine what Aus would look like if the vaccine rollout was treated like a race when we had zero cases. Would people just not have vaccinated which would have make the current situation inevitable at some point? OR, if the full selection of vaccine brands had been available, would be the envy of the world?

The current situation was inevitable, it was just the timing that was unknown.

Not too many countries (if any) had a full selection of vaccines, but if we were sat at zero cases the vaccine hesitant would have come up with an endless stream of reasons why not to have it.

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

From David Walsh, Mona Tasmania

Memo from David Walsh to staff, about vaccination at Mona, 2 September 2021

A society with unlimited rights is incapable of standing to adversity.
—Alexander Solzhenitsyn

"What happens when we want to undertake a journey, but a government-mandated intervention delays it, because, they say, it serves the greater good? Is that an infringement on our rights?

I’m talking about traffic lights. Today, while taking the kids to school, I had to wait for a total of six minutes while cars went somewhere else. Of course I could have ignored those dastardly traffic lights, but ignoring them, potentially, has consequences. I might get in trouble with the very authorities that I’m resisting. Is running those lights a legitimate protest? Perhaps I should protest by making things worse (I could stand in the middle of the intersection, at great risk to myself to enhance the risk to others—that’d work). I might kill myself. But I’ve got a fancy car that’ll protect me. Perhaps I should run those lights, window down, arm out, middle finger extended. But if I run those lights, others might suffer. Most times, though, I’ll get through unscathed, and cause no diminishment to others. Am I feeling lucky, punk? And anyway, aren’t we a bunch of self-interested, greed-is-good, motherfucking capitalists? Why should I look after others?

But I stopped at the red lights. So did everybody else. If traffic lights are a part of a global conspiracy to turn us all into pawns of the government, or Bill Gates, or 5G, then I’m a government tool. Or just a tool. And so is everybody else.

I’m going to make vaccination mandatory for staff at Mona. If that makes you see red (lights) despite the previous three paragraphs let me, briefly, talk about the nature of risk. Some types of risk are additive (every time you take a bath, there’s a small chance it’ll kill you: but there is no chance it’ll kill anyone else). When you go to work unvaccinated there’s a small chance you’ll get COVID and an even smaller chance you’ll die. But each time you take that risk there is a small chance you’ll kill someone else (it’s multiplicative). That’s not okay. In a perfect world the vaccine would never kill you (a very small risk, but additive, like a bath), and it’d protect you and others completely. It doesn’t give perfect protection. Sometimes traffic lights fail. But we don’t turn them off. That’d kill more people. We keep them on, because mostly, inefficiently and grudgingly, we serve the greater good.

We’ll give you a decent interval to get vaccinated, and if necessary we’ll help you make an appointment.

We used to have co-leaders who could cruise through amber. One has gone to greener pastures (congrats). Patrick will now be our CEO solo. Ably assisted by Liz and Philippa and hundreds of others… you, if you get vaccinated. Patrick has proved he is very wise—these days, he always stops at red lights.

I wrote the above for the staff of Mona. But Emily, who mediates between me and the media, wanted to release it to everyone. ‘Transparency, and anyway, there’ll be leaks, and that’ll cause confusion.’ So I’m telling everyone that’s interested. At Mona we’ll be mandating COVID vaccinations for staff. Most of Mona’s staff are exposed to the public (although, at the moment, we don’t really have a public). Most people who visit Mona are nice, friendly, and respectful. But there’s a small chance that each of them is a reservoir for that beastly COVID virus. I’d like to mandate vaccines for the public, too, but that’d be unfair to, for example, kids. We like kids at Mona. And we like risk at Mona. But we like our staff more.

A few staff might think we are trampling on their rights, but the one right they think we are restricting doesn’t exist. Our staff don’t have the right to trample on the rights of their colleagues. Yes, it’s harsh to deprive someone of their livelihood for the good of others. And it’s harsh to deprive someone of their licence for running red lights. Harsh, but necessary."