General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[MEL_Traveller]

William M Briggs' 'article' on lockdowns doesn't seem to take any account of when lockdowns were imposed. Some countries started very late, or too late. Others started early.

Post automatically merged: May 17, 2020

And Victoria stopping people from just walking...

That is a gross misrepresentation Victoria did not stop anyone from 'walking'. They had a lockdown which allowed people out of their homes for four reasons. Shopping for essential supplies and exercise were permitted.

 

[Pushka]

I am glad you are so definite in your beliefs lovetravellingoz but the real world is a lot different and there are usually more than 1 way of getting a good result.
I see very little evidence that closing schools for example has reduced spread.
And Victoria stopping people from just walking,playing golf or going fishing is not scientifically based.The CMO did acknowledge that in a recent interview.

And what you are not taking into account is the threat to health that lockdowns cause.Estimated there could be 750-1500 extra suicides a year over the next 5 years-and that usually means a much younger demographic than Covid deaths.

Quite frankly I think we should be able to put on some death certificates under the heading-Any other Condition contributing to death-Covid fear.

We continued all those "banned" things in SA and are theoretically 0 cases for over 4 weeks now, and Covid free, excepting that guy who decided to have a test four weeks after the symptoms and was no longer infectious.

Now we need to get back to some kind of functioning again but we seem to be stuck in a parent-child mode.

Mental health is a real threat. That will be a curve that may be impossible to flatten.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I am glad you are so definite in your beliefs lovetravellingoz but the real world is a lot different and there are usually more than 1 way of getting a good result.

I would have thought my post above was discussing many ways and was hardly meant to be an exhaustive list, but rather an outline.

Indeed acting early means that some ways such as a more complete lockdown is not required.

What in my post is not in the real world? Are not the UK, Wuhan, NZ and Australia (not to mention Taiwan, Italy Sweden etc) all in the real world and all locations where different things have been done with different levels of success?

Also what is a success depends on one's point of view. The Swede's believe their approach is successful. Many disagree with them.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

That is a gross misrepresentation Victoria did not stop anyone from 'walking'. They had a lockdown which allowed people out of their homes for four reasons. Shopping for essential supplies and exercise were permitted.

Indeed walking was always permitted. Indeed it was encouraged along with the need for exercise.

What the Vic Government did not want to encourage was going from home further than one needed to exercise and hence recreations such as fishing, golf etc were not permitted.

One thing we do know is that density of population makes Covid 19 harder to manage. So Victoria with the second highest population density has not done that badly to managed to have the fifth highest rate for cases per head of population in Australia.

Mind you I believe that compared to most of the rest of the world that all Australian States and Territories have done well.

 

[p--and--t]

and Victoria stopping people from just walking,

Sorry - Utter and complete rubbish.

There was never any prohibition on walking or exercising and almost on a daily basis we were encouraged by both the Premier and CMO to go out and exercise (but in groups no larger than 2 or a family unit). People were in the parks with their personal trainer doing various exercises as long as there was only one client.

I have continued to walk for an hour around two adjacent parks for an hour 4 times a week every week throughout restrictions with the owner of the apt next to mine.

We were prohibited from engaging in activities and going to places where people tend to congregate and not practice social distancing in the name of exercise like golf clubs, bowling clubs, gyms and swimming pools etc.

 

[mrsterryn]

Has anyone had a eyesight test recently ?
I need my reading glasses (lost the old pairs ) as it is more than a year I wonder if I will be able to have a test ?

 

[TheRealTMA]

Has anyone had a eyesight test recently ?
I need my reading glasses (lost the old pairs ) as it is more than a year I wonder if I will be able to have a test ?

Free on Medicare once a year.

 

[mrsterryn]

Ahh poor phrasing. I meant in regards to social distancing and suchlike.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Has anyone had a eyesight test recently ?
I need my reading glasses (lost the old pairs ) as it is more than a year I wonder if I will be able to have a test ?

Looks like some Speccasavers are now open.

Go to

Your Local Optometrists & Eye Care Professionals

Our stores are locally-run by qualified and experienced optometrists & audiology professionals whose priority is to offer quality eye and hearing care. Book an eye test today!

www.specsavers.com.au

and put in your postcode.

 

[Princess Fiona]

This pretty much sums up the cluster f#ck that is the lock-down in the UK. BMJ UK response
Too late by a long margin, we here had a lucky escape.
Don’t read William Briggs I implore you. It’s dangerous bullshit.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

This pretty much sums up the cluster f#ck that is the lock-down in the UK. BMJ UK response

Back in our bushfire season my English friends, with who I was due to visit and stay with in early June, were writing to me worried about my safety and expressing their helplessness at watching Australia burn.

Now it is I who am the helpless one watching the UK on fire with a virus. A virus that could have been causing so much less harm there than it is.

 

[Pushka]

This pretty much sums up the cluster f#ck that is the lock-down in the UK. BMJ UK response
Too late by a long margin, we here had a lucky escape.
Don’t read William Briggs I implore you. It’s dangerous bullshit.

My DIL is a British trained GP living currently in SA. Her family are still in the Liverpool area and she has a huge contrast of feelings. Concerns for her parents and brother and family in the UK and relief with her baby and husband being in likely one of the safest places in the world. I don't even dare ask about the UK.

The bushfires put off a lot of overseas people travelling to Australia in January and February because the message was that Australia was on fire. And that may have helped avoid some of the transmission here in the early days.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And what you are not taking into account is the threat to health that lockdowns cause.Estimated there could be 750-1500 extra suicides a year over the next 5 years-and that usually means a much younger demographic than Covid deaths.

I don't understand why age demographics are creeping back into the argument? Our retired teachers, nurses, paramedics and firefighters are all people. And our returned services veterans. They are not expendable, and their life is no less valuable than someone in a younger demographic.

Mental health is a big issue. Fortunately we have the money, resources, and progressive political agendas to help try and manage it.

 

[p--and--t]

 

[cove]

There appears to be about 100,000 cruise ship crew still stuck on cruise ships. Many are not being paid and some are contracting COVID-19.
That report came from Miami Florida.
We have zero plans to go on a cruise.

 

[tgh]

Closer to home ..

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says she doesn't agree with Queensland's decision to close its borders during the coronavirus crisis.

Queensland premier Annastacia Palaszczuk closed the border with NSW in March, and she says its possible it won't reopen until September


There is an increasing them and us spin throughout the world… the higher the infection rate the sooner the gates are thrown open and agitation for common denominator infection rates commences.
NSW, with a poor record wants to share their Covid success with Qld who have largely dodged the bullet
Trump wants to celebrate the US victory by getting back to work, velociraptors notwithstanding.

The AU government is about to come under great pressure to join this lowest common denominator push so that disenfranchised businesses can recommence trading.

This common infection rate is a massive worldwide "elephant" , not just for us but for the small countries with very low infections rates and limited health facilities
The Chinese want to restart their economic rape and the developed countries want to fly and cruise their infected tourists .
I fear the mass pressure will prevail and that the Covid infection rate will level out Internationally fairly quickly .
For au.. we won the fight but may lose the war.

 

[drron]

I don't understand why age demographics are creeping back into the argument? Our retired teachers, nurses, paramedics and firefighters are all people. And our returned services veterans. They are not expendable, and their life is no less valuable than someone in a younger demographic.

Mental health is a big issue. Fortunately we have the money, resources, and progressive political agendas to help try and manage it.

I wasn't saying older people are expendable after all I am one of them.
I am saying neither are our working age people expendable.Whilst you believe we have the money and resources to manage mental healthissues we are still doing it very poorly.If you have private Health insurance and live in a large city fine but try a regional area and it is much more difficult to find adequate resources for mental health.

And wouldn't a better idea be to do a selective lockdown for example Nursing homes.Cut the number of visitors and institute surveillance of workers-eg like hospitals at present have your temp taken and answer a questionnaire re respiratory symptoms before starting your shift.We did lock down many nursing homes in the Swine flu pandemic.
Then strongly suggest those older than 70 to self isolate.Do regular checks to make sure they are at least trying to comply.Also younger people with major comorbidities should do the same.

Then most of those of working age could continue with advice on social distancing.Some restrictions on larger gatherings and places where people congregate.That way less economic damage plus better heath outcomes for those issues that are made worse by lockdowns.And believe me working away from the frontline I am regularly seeing people whose health has taken a major hit due to the lockdown.Unfortunately there is no overall collating of these problems so most are totally unaware of the damage being done.

 

[RooFlyer]

Ahh poor phrasing. I meant in regards to social distancing and suchlike.

Well, I'm seeing my dentist on Friday, here in Tas, which is doing the slowest de-lockdown. Can't get much closer socially, without going the full smooch.

 

[RooFlyer]

Question about a vaccine - assuming one does eventuate. Is it likely to be 'bred' in eggs, like the regular flu vaccine is?

Should I start stockpiling powdered egg and frozen chook? (But the question above is serious)

 

[drron]

Not necessarily as several new types of vaccine are being trialled.eggs are for a live virus vaccine in general.
If a vaccine does become available in a shorter time frame it is likely to come from the USA or possibly Europe.
Why? Well they are the 2 areas which still have a lot of active cases so would be quicker to get enough experience with the vaccine.That was the probl;em with the SARs vaccine.By the time they were ready to test in humans there were hardly any cases.

And most have now heard about project Time warp.It has however been in planning for a month or so.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

"Warp Speed has already narrowed its list of vaccine candidates to 14 and plans to push ahead with eight, the official says. “The idea for us is to pick a diversified portfolio” of vaccines made with different technologies, or platforms. Organizers were concerned that other government vaccine investment has been “heavily weighted” toward just two candidates: one made with messenger RNA encoding the coronavirus surface “spike” protein and the other using a cold-causing adenovirus to deliver the same protein’s gene. Neither technology, the official notes, has yet led to approved vaccines for any disease.


The official declined to identify Warp Speed’s vaccine candidates, but he stressed two key criteria: safety and the potential to make hundreds of millions of doses quickly. “We don’t have time to debug manufacturing issues here,” he says. By July, Warp Speed hopes to have its eight lead candidates in human trials. At the same time, it will fund a large-scale comparison of their safety and efficacy in hamsters and monkeys to help winnow down that group. “If something’s really bad, we’ll get rid of it,” he says."