General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Princess Fiona]

Quite a few things in one article.

10min tests are rubbish
A380s to go (showers)
30,000 staff to go
No free WiFi for anyone

Big Shuffle At Emirates: Covid Testing Stopped, A380s Retired, Free Wifi Cut, 30% Staff To Be Laid Off

Emirates prepares to make deep cuts in company overhaul.

loyaltylobby.com

Not at all surprised the tests are going. It was a complete pantomime to start with.

 

[Quickstatus]

So, question for doctors here: If that scenario is correct, then surely it shouldn't come as a surprise that the virus infection, with transmission possible, should re-emerge? Does this sort of thing occur in other viral diseases?

Why not this scenario...
He was never positive in the first place, but is positive now
(Look up false positive and false negative).

Or he was positive before and recovered and is positive again.

Or he was positive, then falsely tested negative but subsequent tests correctly positive.

All tests have a false negative and false positive rate. I don't know what the Covid test rates are.

Surprisingly there are no published false negative and false positive rates for each type of tests. If anyone can find them let me know

People in the 20 - 30's bracket make up the largest percentage of infected cases yet there have been no deaths in that age group

It comes as no surprise.
In essence medical treatment requires a body to physically withstand the onslaught of the disease and treatment.
You cant flog a dead horse, neither can you flog an old horse and expect miracles.

Most deaths from influenza are the elderly.
Most deaths from any bodily insult are the elderly.
This might be headline news but for the health care industry its old news.

 

[RooFlyer]

So, question for doctors here: If that scenario is correct, then surely it shouldn't come as a surprise that the virus infection, with transmission possible, should re-emerge? Does this sort of thing occur in other viral diseases?

Why not this scenario...
He was never positive in the first place, but is positive now
(Look up false positive and false negative).

I don't know about that scenario, but I was wondering about the one I put. And I know what false positive and negative is

 

[Quickstatus]

While the Covid=19 is a novel one, and everyone is learning about the virus and its effects.

Media news about Covid causing other illnesses is neither here nor there.

The main take home message is that your medicos deal with a sick patient on a systematic basis and try not to assume anything. That way nothing gets missed (though human error means sometimes it does get missed).
All diagnoses are essentially provisional and there may be more than one and the diagnosis might change.

It is not unusual for patients to have several working diagnoses at a time. Sometimes this causes treatment conundrums

I don't know about that scenario, but I was wondering about the one I put. And I know what false positive and negative is

Anything is possible. Never discount anything. Keep an open mind (was the main take home message in my final year from an internal medicine professor)
The only way to know is to see whether the virus was the same at the beginning and now.

The other possibility is reactivation
Viral reactivation is not unknown in medicine - shingles and hepatitis B,C come to mind.
Bacterial reactivation - the classic is TB
The assumption is the body's immune system eventually kills the viral invader before the virus kills the host. In most cases yes but does it all the time?

 

[Princess Fiona]

I have been puzzled about the ages of those unfortunate people who have died from Covid-19 in Australia. There have been only three deaths of people under the age of 60. One of these was in his 40's and was a crewman off the German cruise ship that pulled into Fremantle and thus was probably exposed to the virus multiple times..

Overseas I read about lots of deaths of younger people yet it has not happened here. People in the 20 - 30's bracket make up the largest percentage of infected cases yet there have been no deaths in that age group.I don't believe that it can just be due to the medical treatment given them. Is it due to the 'load' of infectious material they receive being so much less because there is so little community transmission or is there some other answer?

I think you are correct. No deaths here in younger age groups due to very small amount of cases. This isn’t the case in the UK. The pic is from the UK ICU Registry reported outcomes so far.
It shows a far higher death rate for COVID-19 amongst almost all age groups admitted to ICU in comparison with seasonal flu.

 

[Bundy Bear]

Just curious for people who import from China to here. Are you having issues with the imports ? Just reading about various places eg Kmart etc who are apparently starting to struggle with stocking shelves
Please note that that is heresay

As China was closed down for 2 months a few sea freight deliveries might not have been despatched so now there is a delay in parts coming in.
Airfreight them then but there are so few aircraft flying it there isn’t the cargo belly space available, and all the expensive parts taking up the space.

 

[drron]

Though not all flu epidemics are typical seasonal flu.The swine flu pandemic of 2009 was markedly different in it's mortality pattern.Estimated that 80% of deaths were in people younger than 65.
The average age of severe or fatal cases was 27.

H1N1 Flu Virus (Swine Flu): Symptoms, Causes, Tests, Treatments, Prevention

WebMD explains the H1N1 flu virus (swine flu), what causes it, and its symptoms, tests, treatments, and prevention.

www.webmd.com

2009 H1N1 Pandemic

A summary of key events of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and the CDC's response activities between April 2009 and April 2010.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Flashback]

Playing around with AA and stumbled across this for departure next week........ much better than my foiled attempt at booking the other day!

Business
One way (per person)
85,000 miles
+ £233.57

Does this apply?

COVID-19 coronavirus

Find information and advice on the COVID-19 coronavirus for the community and businesses in Western Australia.

www.wa.gov.au

 

[Flashback]

Playing around with AA and stumbled across this for departure next week........ much better than my foiled attempt at booking the other day!

Business
One way (per person)
85,000 miles
+ £233.57

Does this apply?

COVID-19 coronavirus

Find information and advice on the COVID-19 coronavirus for the community and businesses in Western Australia.

www.wa.gov.au

It's a bit confusing looking here...... Staying during coronavirus - Australia travel advice

 

[Pushka]

Though not all flu epidemics are typical seasonal flu.The swine flu pandemic of 2009 was markedly different in it's mortality pattern.Estimated that 80% of deaths were in people younger than 65.
The average age of severe or fatal cases was 27.

H1N1 Flu Virus (Swine Flu): Symptoms, Causes, Tests, Treatments, Prevention

WebMD explains the H1N1 flu virus (swine flu), what causes it, and its symptoms, tests, treatments, and prevention.

www.webmd.com

2009 H1N1 Pandemic

A summary of key events of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and the CDC's response activities between April 2009 and April 2010.

www.cdc.gov

Swine flu was a weird one. Us oldies were safe. I think that was because a similar virus swept through in the '70's ? The only people we knew who tested positive for swine flu were aged 19 and 14.

 

[JohnM]

On a lighter note:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2725312561038804

 

[drron]

Interesting day today.
First get an email to say the credentialling committe have accepted my credentials for the job at a QLD hospital that I finished on March 4th.

Second after lunch a PA announcement that there were problems with the Royal Hobart switchboard so the LGH switch were getting all LGH calls plus all RHH calls so please only ring switch if absolutely essential.Only in Tasmania.

Third I was about 5 metres from my apartment when coming back from the hospital when stopped by the Tassie police."Out for a long walk are you?"
No this is where I am staying.
"So working are you?"
Well I have finished for the day.
"Oh."And they walk off.

 

[p--and--t]

It's a bit confusing looking here...... Staying during coronavirus - Australia travel advice

To be honest I haven't examined all the information closely.

However, my strong presumption from various articles is that

• if you an Australian passport holder, you will not (can not?) be stopped returning to Australia unless you are on a declared terrorist list. (If fact they have been requesting Australian citizens to return for weeks)
• if you hold any documentation showing you have a residence in WA (drivers licence, council rates, water rates or similar) then WA will not stop you returning to that state.
• if you do return you will be put into one of the methods of isolation for a minimum of 14 days at the first airport of landing
• if you are not an Aussie citizen, you will require permission from Border Force (Feds) to come into the country
• if you are not a resident of WA (or cannot show you own a residence in WA), you may have to substantiate why you want to enter WA and have a good reason (as per the exemption list)

 

[Flying mermaid]

Playing around with AA and stumbled across this for departure next week........ much better than my foiled attempt at booking the other day!

Business
One way (per person)
85,000 miles
+ £233.57

Does this apply?

COVID-19 coronavirus

Find information and advice on the COVID-19 coronavirus for the community and businesses in Western Australia.

www.wa.gov.au

I don’t think you can enter WA without applying for an exemption - maybe compassionate grounds?

 

[Flying mermaid]

To be honest I haven't examined all the information closely.

However, my strong presumption from various articles is that

• if you an Australian passport holder, you will not (can not?) be stopped returning to Australia unless you are on a declared terrorist list. (If fact they have been requesting Australian citizens to return for weeks)
• if you hold any documentation showing you have a residence in WA (drivers licence, council rates, water rates or similar) then WA will not stop you returning to that state.
• if you do return you will be put into one of the methods of isolation for a minimum of 14 days at the first airport of landing

I don’t believe even a WA resident can return without an exemption (unless they are on the list of exempt categories). Before they closed the border they set a deadline for residents to return. However it’s all very confusing and I guess quite fluid.

The nation's toughest border controls are being adopted in WA, locking even its own residents out

The WA Government will close its borders to arrivals from the eastern states at the end of this week, the first time in history it has done so since it grudgingly became the final Australian colony to vote for federation in 1900. So how will this new state of affairs work?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Flashback]

To be honest I haven't examined all the information closely.

However, my strong presumption from various articles is that

• if you an Australian passport holder, you will not (can not?) be stopped returning to Australia unless you are on a declared terrorist list. (If fact they have been requesting Australian citizens to return for weeks)
• if you hold any documentation showing you have a residence in WA (drivers licence, council rates, water rates or similar) then WA will not stop you returning to that state.
• if you do return you will be put into one of the methods of isolation for a minimum of 14 days at the first airport of landing

That's my reading of it too, it's all a bit confusing really.

I don’t think you can enter WA without applying for an exemption - maybe compassionate grounds?

Possibly, although maybe in hindsight 14 days locked away in a room isn't such a good idea.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Though not all flu epidemics are typical seasonal flu.The swine flu pandemic of 2009 was markedly different in it's mortality pattern.Estimated that 80% of deaths were in people younger than 65.
The average age of severe or fatal cases was 27.

H1N1 Flu Virus (Swine Flu): Symptoms, Causes, Tests, Treatments, Prevention

WebMD explains the H1N1 flu virus (swine flu), what causes it, and its symptoms, tests, treatments, and prevention.

www.webmd.com

2009 H1N1 Pandemic

A summary of key events of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic and the CDC's response activities between April 2009 and April 2010.

www.cdc.gov

No they aren’t. Definitely more to come out of this. The ICU admissions in the UK seem to have been much smaller due to H1N1 (~ 7000 Admissions to ICU with COVID-19 so far all ages England and Wales) Pic is admissions due to Swine Flu H1N1


Report Into H1N1

 

[p--and--t]

I don’t believe even a WA resident can return without an exemption (unless they are on the list of exempt categories). Before they closed the border they set a deadline for residents to return. However it’s all very confusing and I guess quite fluid.

The nation's toughest border controls are being adopted in WA, locking even its own residents out

The WA Government will close its borders to arrivals from the eastern states at the end of this week, the first time in history it has done so since it grudgingly became the final Australian colony to vote for federation in 1900. So how will this new state of affairs work?

www.abc.net.au

An Australian citizen cannot be prevented from returning to Australia from overseas (this is one of the difficulties the Feds have been grappling with over people coming back from Syria etc) .

It would be interesting to see what they WA would do if you walked off the plane at PER airport and said I don't have a ticket to another Australian city. They would be stuck with putting you into quarantine, because they can't deport you, they don't have the power if you are an Australian citizen.

 

[Flying mermaid]

An Australian citizen cannot be prevented from returning to Australia from overseas (this is one of the difficulties the Feds have been grappling with over people coming back from Syria etc) .

It would be interesting to see what they WA would do if you walked off the plane at PER airport and said I don't have a ticket to another Australian city..

It’s an interesting thought. Definitely can’t stop an Australian citizen from returning home and you would need to quarantine on arrival, so I would hope common sense would take over and they would let you stay.

I was more thinking if you arrived in say Sydney, I think a WA resident would still need permission to return.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2020

Possibly, although maybe in hindsight 14 days locked away in a room isn't such a good idea.

definitely can’t avoid that bit and from what I have read some people are finding that stressful.

 

[p--and--t]

definitely can’t avoid that bit and from what I have read some people are finding that stressful.

A form of Isolation will be required. Sometimes its home isolation, the rest "gov provided"

If home isolation is not approved, from gossip, not hard fact, I think you only get to holiday on Rotto if you are in a large Citizen repatriation group. The alternative for individuals (not in home isolation) or non-citizens is a city hotel room.