General Train Discussion

[esseeeayeenn]

We had an infrastructure PM for 2 years, didn't he sort all this stuff out?

 

[PineappleSkip]

Don't think he was an enthusiast for train infrastructure. He seemed to like car infrastructure.

Cheers skip

 

[Jmrocky]

I've been looking at the possibility of taking the Tazara Railway from Dar-es-Salaam to Kapiri Mposhi in Zambia (or vice versa):shock:. I've read about it on seat61 which, of course, has lots of information.

Has anyone on here travelled on this route?

I was considering it when we were in Africa last, but the times didn't work out for us. I'm a huge train buff and would have done it for the experience in a heartbeat. Seat 61 has some reviews which are great.

If you are interested in train journeys in Africa there is a doco by Griff Rhys Jones called Slow Train through Africa. He takes train trips from Morocco to South Africa (not continuously), and he tried to take this train from Dar to Mposhi. From memory when he gets to the station everyone is on strike (there's an actual strike and rally right when he's there) and no train for the last 3 months. From memory he drives down to Zambia and catches an ore train to Lusaka.

Getting between these 2 cities can be annoying btw, we ended up going with SA Airways back to JNB but it cost a packet, we had a flight booked with an African airline (Precision Air?) but they cancelled on us last minute.

 

[medhead]

It seems Deutsche Bahn want to do away with their sleeper trains by the end of the year. They are to be replaced with standard IC or ICE 'seat only' trains.

Sleeper trains are an endangered species in Europe, it seems. A real shame.

No! Those overnight sleeper trains are great. Having a proper bed makes all the difference between a good night's sleep and an uncomfortable, restless night on the train.

Having said that, those Deutsche Bahn sleeper trains are getting quite old and I don't think they have anything to replace them with.

I'm going to have to go against the grain on sleeper trains. I totally support the concept but in practice they're not the best. They can only really work well on long distance journeys. So my experiences in 2005 were from Munich to Budapest and Vienna to Venice (this was labelled Orient Express but was a DB wagon).

The Munich Budapest trip was in a 6 berth couchette, The 2 blokes (with 2 car tyres each as carry on) on the bottom bunks were surprised to see mum in the cabin. The train took about 7 hours to get from Munich to Vienna (arriving at about 6am) then another 3 or 4 hours to budapest. That included a considerable amount of time stopped somewhere in Austria with window shut and no A/C! We had just about zero sleep over night, then as the other 3 in the cabin got off in Vienna the beds got put away so the 3 of us then sat up to budapest. Arrived tired and in need of a shower, but no getting into the hotel until the afternoon. So dumped luggage and wandered Budapest in a semi-zombie like state possibly emitting aroma.

So the issue here is that the physically possible journey time is much shorter than the scheduled journey time. It would have been better to get the first morning train and arrive in time for hotel check in.

The second trip Vienna to Venice was at least in first class. But the same issue with arriving, better rested, to a hotel that isn't ready for you to check in and spending hours wandering zombie like. In this case, despite being first class the showers were closed for "hygiene reasons". I have no idea what that means to this day. I'm sure there wasn't an ebola outbreak. I think my "hygiene reasons" said the shower should be open. Being a German, I don't think the conductor/valet was too lazy to clean the shower. Maybe his offsider called in sick.

Overall, good in theory, not so good in practice.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Maybe you lucked out? Done Vienna-Paris, Amsterdam-Copenhagen, Granada-Barcelona and Fort William-London in recent years and had no problems with any of them. All selected as they had showers in cabins (except UK I think), Mrs Pineapple's prerequisite for train travel. Unfortunately the first two are no longer possible.

Part of the problem with sleeper carriages/trains is the low utilization rate fro shorter journeys, where the trains sit empty all day and are only used at night. That and their slowness compared with high speed day trains are factors in their atrophying as a form of travel.

Cheers skip

 

[Jmrocky]

Overall, good in theory, not so good in practice.

I agree. Back when train travel in Europe was slower and the networks not as well integrated, sleeper's were a good bet. Nowadays though with increasing quality and speed of EC services, and partnerships like Thalys, Lyria etc. sleepers aren't really that great.

 

[medhead]

Maybe you lucked out? Done Vienna-Paris, Amsterdam-Copenhagen, Granada-Barcelona and Fort William-London in recent years and had no problems with any of them. All selected as they had showers in cabins (except UK I think), Mrs Pineapple's prerequisite for train travel. Unfortunately the first two are no longer possible.

Part of the problem with sleeper carriages/trains is the low utilization rate fro shorter journeys, where the trains sit empty all day and are only used at night. That and their slowness compared with high speed day trains are factors in their atrophying as a form of travel.

Cheers skip

Yeah, certainly lucked out with the showers are closed for hygiene reasons. Also when tyres are acceptable hand luggage, well...
I do think they would work much better for longer journeys. In hindsight, we picked journeys that are reasonably achievable via day travel. Meaning to have a reasonable night departure time, and reasonable arrival, the night train has to go slow, or even has to stop somewhere for many hours.
I would have liked to have done Rome -Salzberg as a night train. Reasonable distance so that the train would have to keep moving (depart around 6 or 7 pm arrive 12 or so hours later). But we did that as a (long) day trip, the scenery was wonderful. I had to jump off at the Brenner pass to get the kids a cup full of their first snow. All things that don't happen on a night train.
(We did that as a day trip because on the previous trip we returned from Venice to Munich as a day trip.)

 

[UP4014]

Re the last few posts.

Sleepers are good for trips more than 12 hours where you don't need to get off before 8am, otherwise too rushed in my view. Two day trips are better although the first night you don't get much sleep but the second you're usually so tired it's easy.

One thing not mentioned is private cars, as some of you know I have my own sleeper/lounge/bar which for me is the only way to travel and makes it very difficult to go back to public transport.

If you check this club I'm member of out American Association for Professional Certification there are lists of private cars in North America available for charter but a more realistic price option is to poke around the web site and find a shared trip with others. There are options and places you wouldn't normally get to, like to the Kentucky Derby.

If in California try LA Rail Vintage Rail Cars for Charter which has some short trips suitable for everyone out of LA.

There is limited private car travel in Australia.

Happy travelling, ask me any questions on private cars if you want.

Matt

 

[medhead]

Good point. I've done the sunlander all the way to cairns a few times. first time it was a long 3 day trip - sleeper worked well. Have also gone around Queensland on a private charter train run by Qld Rail while at uni - taking science to the regions.

I occasionally check out the private charter options for the Ghan or the train to perth. There used to be pricing info. But not anymore it seems. Private Service :: GSR

Still those are the commercial offerings. nothing like a BAM experience.

 

[Jacques Vert]

I was considering it when we were in Africa last, but the times didn't work out for us. I'm a huge train buff and would have done it for the experience in a heartbeat. Seat 61 has some reviews which are great.

If you are interested in train journeys in Africa there is a doco by Griff Rhys Jones called Slow Train through Africa. He takes train trips from Morocco to South Africa (not continuously), and he tried to take this train from Dar to Mposhi. From memory when he gets to the station everyone is on strike (there's an actual strike and rally right when he's there) and no train for the last 3 months. From memory he drives down to Zambia and catches an ore train to Lusaka.

Getting between these 2 cities can be annoying btw, we ended up going with SA Airways back to JNB but it cost a packet, we had a flight booked with an African airline (Precision Air?) but they cancelled on us last minute.

Thanks for the comments; I have seen some of Griff's programs but so far this one has eluded me.

The train would be an experience if it worked out OK and I would love to do it. OTOH, if delayed by a strike or derailment or flood, etc., and we missed our next flight then...oh dear!

I had almost given up on the idea as one of the required award flights was unavailable but has just now re-appeared! Hmmmm

 

[seanpodge]

I'm going to have to go against the grain on sleeper trains. I totally support the concept but in practice they're not the best. They can only really work well on long distance journeys. So my experiences in 2005 were from Munich to Budapest and Vienna to Venice (this was labelled Orient Express but was a DB wagon).

A shame your trips didn't go so well. I'd agree that you need a decent length of journey to make it work. Minimum 10 hours I reckon. Preferably with few or no intermediate stops.

 

[Boca68]

A couple of years ago, I did the Paris - Madrid overnight sleeper. (Which I believe has been discontinued now) Booked into the 4 berth sleeper cabins. As the Premium 2 berth were quite significantly more expensive. From memory, the 4 berth was around the 90 to 100 euro mark and the Premium Cabin was 350 to 400 euros.

Whilst I did enjoy the journey, I found the cabins too small for a man of my height. I'm only about 6' 2" (186cms) but couldn't stretch out. It was October and a mild night outside, but it was very warm in the cabin. No much ventilation. The train only made 2 stops, one about 2 hours outside of Paris and the other at Burgos in Nth Spain, perhaps 3 hours from Madrid. About 12 to 13 hours in total. Luckily at Burgos, I noticed the people in the cabin next to ours get off the train. (I was awake as couldn't sleep, see above) So promptly moved in there. Had it to myself.

The dining car was ok. Although it was always full. I think many spent the whole journey in there drinking wine and beer. Maybe I should have? It was an experience, but as I said earlier, not that great. But it was memorable for sure.

 

[PineappleSkip]

A couple of years ago, I did the Paris - Madrid overnight sleeper. (Which I believe has been discontinued now)

Alas, yes... from Seat61.com

The Paris to Madrid Elipsos sleeper train was sadly discontinued from 15 December 2013...

 

[Conrad_S]

We did the Caledonian sleeper London to fort William late last year. Lounge car with table or couch service was a great experience. They had a good selection of drinks (scotch) and food. Cabins and beds were tight but comfortable. I enjoyed the movement of the carriage but my wife was less enthused with it. Pretty hard to beat the experience of waking up to the highlands outside the windows in the morning. Even the nasty coffee and dry bacon roll seemed better with that.

 

[UP4014]

Re the last few posts.

Sleepers are good for trips more than 12 hours where you don't need to get off before 8am, otherwise too rushed in my view. Two day trips are better although the first night you don't get much sleep but the second you're usually so tired it's easy.

One thing not mentioned is private cars, as some of you know I have my own sleeper/lounge/bar which for me is the only way to travel and makes it very difficult to go back to public transport.

If you check this club I'm member of out American Association for Professional Certification there are lists of private cars in North America available for charter but a more realistic price option is to poke around the web site and find a shared trip with others. There are options and places you wouldn't normally get to, like to the Kentucky Derby.

If in California try LA Rail Vintage Rail Cars for Charter which has some short trips suitable for everyone out of LA.

There is limited private car travel in Australia.

Happy travelling, ask me any questions on private cars if you want.

Matt

Sorry all, I miss typed the web address, should be;

AAPRCO Inc.

Check this page - http://www.aaprco.com/Travel_Opportunities/Postings.html

 

[Boca68]

Alas, yes... from Seat61.com

Thanks PineappleSkip. Yes I did it in October 2013. So, just made it.

 

[medhead]

Re: You know you are a frequent flyer when ...

Looks like the Prime Minister gets in now.
Plus related reporting say the ALP has a private members bill to establish a high speed rail authority.

A key plank of the government’s infrastructure and cities policy will be to use high-speed rail developments to encourage population growth in regional centres and ease growth pressures in Sydney and Melbourne.
The rail line to Badgerys Creek in western Sydney is the government’s first priority, but The Australian has learnt the Coalition wants this followed with links to regional centres such as Goulburn, as well as another link from Melbourne to Shepparton, to *create a “pressure release valve” for major cities.
These would be the first links of a longer-term very fast train network that would eventually run all the way from Melbourne to Brisbane.

PM’s ticket to deliver fast train | Business Spectator

 

[coco50]

Re: You know you are a frequent flyer when ...

Looks like the Prime Minister gets in now.
Plus related reporting say the ALP has a private members bill to establish a high speed rail authority.



PM’s ticket to deliver fast train | Business Spectator

Can't afford education and health but can afford a HST. Get rid of them!!

 

[medhead]

Re: You know you are a frequent flyer when ...

Can't afford education and health but can afford a HST. Get rid of them!!

They're going to get someone else to pay...

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: You know you are a frequent flyer when ...

coco50, this is a discussion about a subject other than politics. While we all accept that most funding questions involve politics, perhaps your comment is better suited to the AFF so-called 'playground.'