Gift Voucher Booking nonsense

[coriander]

Yes but are you referring to the process of booking with Gift Vouchers or just in general?

Aah yes, the latter not the former. Have yet to start using my GVs.

 

[RooFlyer]

I am not sure I would totally agree and would suspect it is system related.
<snip>
I seriously doubt this is deliberate, the system gremlins seem to have come out to play.

It is absolutely a system issue.
<snip>
Most other airlines implement it in a far better way, but QF has had the same flawed system for years and years.

I'm not sure what 'its a systems issue' means in the context of the thread. 'Systems' don't have a separate life - they are the product of management's initiating, deploying and maintaining certain IT, and therefore anything that's a 'Systems issue' is, in reality, a 'management issue' (and I appreciate that neither of you were not including that too ).

This 'gremlin' has been reported in the past, and its being reported again - both here and to Qantas. Management either are wilfully ignoring it (conveniently, the GV prices are higher than the prices it should offer) or they re not up to their jobs. But we all know about the general quality of Qantas IT and how the work experience kids perform.

But in any event, its a Qantas management problem, not the IT. I can't imagine any IT manager being satisfied with such a coughpy system, so my guess is that the problem is rather high up the management chain.

 

[kpc]

I bought 2 x $300 Gift vouchers last night to get the 2× $50 back with the current Amex promo.....and immediately used them to book 2 red e deal flights. The Gift voucher flight search engine seemed the same as the normal flight search engine for my flights bet Syd and Adl...still haven't received the e tickets though.

I booked the tickets last night but am still to receive the etickets....seems unusual. Also, when will I get the email wth the residual from the voucher?

 

[RichardMEL]

I'm not sure what 'its a systems issue' means in the context of the thread. 'Systems' don't have a separate life - they are the product of management's initiating, deploying and maintaining certain IT, and therefore anything that's a 'Systems issue' is, in reality, a 'management issue' (and I appreciate that neither of you were not including that too ).

This 'gremlin' has been reported in the past, and its being reported again - both here and to Qantas. Management either are wilfully ignoring it (conveniently, the GV prices are higher than the prices it should offer) or they re not up to their jobs. But we all know about the general quality of Qantas IT and how the work experience kids perform.

But in any event, its a Qantas management problem, not the IT. I can't imagine any IT manager being satisfied with such a coughpy system, so my guess is that the problem is rather high up the management chain.

In the context of the earlier argument of these voucher issues being a deliberate effort by QF to mislead customers or a series of poor implemntations/glitches then yes, it's a "systems" issue. In my view.

Are management responsible? Of course, but we've seen time and time again how dysfunctional QF IT are... we love to make jokes about the "Work Experience Kids" and have done for so long that these "kids" would have have school age kids themselves by now.

I am a firm believer that what we see as consumers is a mixture of "faults" from trying to build functionality on legacy systems (remember big GDS platforms like Amadeus and SABRE are still, more or less, the same things that ran airlines in the 70's and 80's... one of the big drivers for LCC's back in tthe day was the ability to move from these old school platforms to newr, custom designed systems that were sleeker and more functional. The airlines that did not wish to or see a need to integrate into the GDS systems like Southwest or early JQ etc did very well to stay away. You have a legacy airline like QF running on these legacy platforms that also have to "speak" to partner and other airlines using very old technology, protocols, formats and standards (eg: things like 6 digit PNR's, limits of character fields, encodings and the like are all legacy) that some things are probably very hard to do.

I have a background in IT and I also know a number of people with backgrounds in res systems like SABRE and also spent some time dealing wiht a company in the US who offered services to airline clients such as duplicate booking matchings, scanning reservations for pax on no fly lists and all that kind of stuff (the big one was finding duplicate or multiple reservations for same or similar flights). I wouldn't claim to know the inds and outs of these GDS's or building platforms on top of them, but I can bet it's far from simple.

I'd also bet that QF's investment in IT has probably been subpar and there may well be solutions for many of these things offered by Amadeus that QF either won't purchase, or doesn't wish to for their own reasons, or maybe require customisations that are far from easy.

Sure, management bears the brunt of these things. They also, to a degree, bear the results of these (how many missed bookings and thus revenue does QF have every time the booking system goes belly up, or the webpage falls over, or a GV can't be used for a flight, or whatever?).. That's money and they care about that obviously, but it's almost certainly not as simple as it may seem from the outside.

I'd also submit from decades in IT in large organisations that there are many priorities being bandied about from people like marketing, yield and revenue management, loyalty and all the rest with wish lists, targets and yes.. budgets to implement.

I would bet you there are people at Mascot pulling their hair out seeing discussions like this online or even seeing things like the website issues, the lack of features, or features going wrong, or whatever and stymied from doing hings. It could even be a matter of multiple bodies being involved (in one previous life I worked as a consultant to a company who was doing work for a large well known telco who had all their systems under the control of a third party vendor (*cough* IBM *cough*) and decisions and requirements from the telco side were pushed through the middle consultants and then had to be implemented by the systems folks. Let's just say it was a nightmare of epic proportions to get even the simplest thing done at times. I could talk to the people who needed to do the work. but to get it done I had to navigate through 3 companies worth of politics, paperwork, procedures and processes.. honestly it was a nightmare.. and in all of that there was ONE GUY who knew the whole deal and kept things oing and without his knowledge the place would have fallen to cough (let's just say that guy was on a significant retainment salary). My point being that often in big institutions like QF it's often far from simple to say lket's do this then make it happen, even more so when you're dealing with rela time systems, MUST have 24/7 reliability where release a code update that goes bad can have massive reprocussions even with all the testing in the world. It happens. We've all seen it.

Am I defending QF here? It may seem that way. No I'm not. I'm a customer.. It irks me to tears at times the issues we've all faced.... but we've all faced enough obvious glitches and bugs with various things to be aware that almost certainly all these issues we're dealing with, specially with Gift Vouchers, are most certainly NOT deceptive or intentional by the company.

Slowly QF do make improvements to various things - it must be remembered... we'd like them instantly and all the old issues fixed totally, but they have rolled out some actually good changes over the past few years and that needs to be recognised.

Unfortunately dealing with vouchers, the limitations and the Far Queue are not one of them. sigh. I still live in hope they will improve!

 

[JohnK]

Think the answer has already been provided.

"E" class airfares do not usually show up when trying to redeem a gift voucher. In most cases "E" class airfares are released when cheap "N", "O" ,"Q" airfares are no longer available.

 

[Pushka]

Think the answer has already been provided.

"E" class airfares do not usually show up when trying to redeem a gift voucher. In most cases "E" class airfares are released when cheap "N", "O" ,"Q" airfares are no longer available.

That needs to be made clear on purchase then. That using a GV precludes you from always being able to purchase the cheapest fare available.

 

[JohnK]

That needs to be made clear on purchase then. That using a GV precludes you from always being able to purchase the cheapest fare available.

It doesn't really preclude you from buying cheapest available unless "E" class is the cheapest available. Qantas have known for long time but refuse to deal with issue as usual.

 

[Pushka]

It doesn't really preclude you from buying cheapest available unless "E" class is the cheapest available. Qantas have known for long time but refuse to deal with issue as usual.

Well, that’s the case isn’t it. In my search, BHKMY was not bookable by GF.

 

[JohnK]

Well, that’s the case isn’t it. In my search, BHKMY was not bookable by GF.

That's a new one to me. I guess all we can do is keep reporting the issues as we encounter them.

 

[amthog]

Just wanted to add another data point...
Booking in early Jan this year for flights mid Feb.
Had an international itinerary I wanted to use a GV on. All flights on QF metal of course.

Researched flight availability using booking engine (not using GV) and noted the flights that suited me.
Returned shortly thereafter to book using GV and the flights I wanted were not even offered as options.
Checked again without GV and they were there.

Was a bit paranoid as all the flights that were offered using GV were sub-standard in terms of equipment or connection times or both.
Grumpily chose the least worst of these options.

BTW this behaviour had definitely not been the case the previous time I used a GV.

Was ironic that a few weeks before flying, a Qantas schedule change broke one of my connections and QF agent re-booked me onto the much more desirable flights I had wanted in the first place. She was surprised when I told her how these flights were unavailable when I used a GV.

Not sure what this adds to the debate of bug vs deliberate deception.

cheers

 

[juddles]

In the context of the earlier argument .....

Superb post..

Could be something the ACCC could look into if the issue persists

LOL! Here within AFF there is a well-known usage of GV to gain DSC that is clearly not the intent of the promotion, but now "we" want to complain to ACCC that the scam is not as smooth because of IT glitches??

 

[Pushka]

Superb post..





LOL! Here within AFF there is a well-known usage of GV to gain DSC that is clearly not the intent of the promotion, but now "we" want to complain to ACCC that the scam is not as smooth because of IT glitches??

Many people who purchase GV do not do so for the purpose of DSC so the point remains valid. All of the available options are not always provided when redeeming GV. Period.

 

[juddles]

Many people who purchase GV do not do so for the purpose of DSC so the point remains valid. All of the available options are not always provided when redeeming GV. Period.

Other than gaming the DSC promotions, for what other reasons do people buy GV? I have never done so and am interested why people do this. Apart, obviously, from giving as gifts??

 

[Pushka]

Other than gaming the DSC promotions, for what other reasons do people buy GV? I have never done so and am interested why people do this. Apart, obviously, from giving as gifts??

To give to people as birthday/Christmas gifts? I’ve done that.

 

[eminere]

Other than gaming the DSC promotions, for what other reasons do people buy GV? I have never done so and am interested why people do this. Apart, obviously, from giving as gifts??

To avoid the credit card booking fees. Simples.

 

[juddles]

.....I tried redeeming a gift voucher purchased during a promo period a.....

I was going off your opening post...

 

[Pushka]

I was going off your opening post...

Yes, today. But also in the first post I mentioned it had happened before

 

[juddles]

I still think it is "audacious" to complain about IT issues whilst in the act of using such a GV as you have

 

[RooFlyer]

LOL! Here within AFF there is a well-known usage of GV to gain DSC that is clearly not the intent of the promotion, but now "we" want to complain to ACCC that the scam is not as smooth because of IT glitches??

Hang on, Qantas sets the rules, as always. The 'intent' of the DSC is I would think to encourage punters to book flights with Qantas. Going the GV route actually guarantees more income for Qantas because it allows these bookings to be done over an extended period. I booked two domestic trips on QF using GVs purchased during the promo period on QF a bit later, as I wasn't ready to book them up front. I very rarely book QF domestically because my trips tend to be short, and Virgin nearly always has a better schedule and price; for DSCs it comes into the window. Qantas' strategy worked.

Given that they changed the T&Cs in respect of certain GV usages, they are obviously aware of the practice and would stop it completely if they didn't like it. very easy to add a T to the T&Cs "Gift voucher purchases not eligible for the DCS promotion".

As for IT 'glitches'. A 'glitch' it may have been originally, but when Qantas are told many times about the problem of non-availability of otherwise economy seats, yet appear not to bother to do anything about it, then I don't think its a 'glitch' any more. I would have no hesitation in thinking that management is turning a blind eye to it, or at least 'hastening slowly' to get it rectified.

 

[Pushka]

I still think it is "audacious" to complain about IT issues whilst in the act of using such a GV as you have

It occurred when I was booking a while ago with nothing to do with DSC. It has happened again and the DSC is actually completely irrelevant. This time I did not know (or care tbh, we had both already requal as WP from May 1 2018 and MrP has lifetime SG) if it would work for DSC. It was just a test. I didn’t use it in the end. I just wanted the best deal for our client who partially refunds.

I think your inference is completely out of order. And probably could be posted in your thread about crossing the line.

The same situation would have occurred to Joe Blow who knows nothing about GV and DSC and status but just trying to get a flight from his grandmothers Christmas voucher. You would have him pay a premium that shouldn’t occur. And while not my Grandmother who gave me my GV, is exactly what happened with me on the first occasion I tried to use a GV. I have used them later and have secured the Red E deal.

You asked why people buy GV. That seemed to be your query suggesting the only reason why people buy GV is to do what you interpret as exploitation. I gave the example that we had purchased GV that had nothing to do with DSC. As have many others. But that didn’t satisfy you so now you’ve just closed up and said it’s just wrong. But this glitch or whatever it is by Qantas is just wrong.

While I would have said Boo Hiss if the DSC hadn’t come through, I always knew when purchasing that the change to the Terms and Conditions mid stream might mean they wouldn’t. But I never expected that once again the cost of the fares would be higher than if I was just paying cash outright. THAT is the issue. Not the DSC. You really need to get past that.